49 replies to this topic

[Surn]

Yes, there is nothing new about this build, but here is a video I made while testing out the build.

It was an exciting match...

[Tordin]

Gotta try that build out as soon as I get one 5ss. For now, I'll try to do a similar build with a grasshopper. CQC builds with only pulse lasers are risky but very fun and rewarding though.

[Telmasa]

It's not as risky when you've got god-mode quirks...just saying
MEDIUM PULSE LASER RANGE: 25.00 %
ENERGY RANGE: 25.00 %
ENERGY HEAT GENERATION: -15.00 %
ENERGY COOLDOWN: 15.00 %

The 5SS uses MPLs like they have the range of Large Lasers, *and* -15% heat *and* firing 15% faster than normal.

If that isn't game-breaking to you, I think you need your eyes checked.

[Crotch RockIt]

I think the 50% range is too much (30-40% would be more appropriate), but overall, the 5SS is hardly game-breaking. Unless you consider it game-breaking that an IS heavy is semi-competitive to a Timberwolf.

[Surn]

.hellbringer.

[Telmasa]

Crotch RockIt, on 20 April 2015 - 06:08 AM, said:

I think the 50% range is too much (30-40% would be more appropriate), but overall, the 5SS is hardly game-breaking. Unless you consider it game-breaking that an IS heavy is semi-competitive to a Timberwolf.

First, the Timberwolf is not that amazing. Big bulbous CT catapult nose, it just has visible side torsos and long dangly arms compared to the Catapult. CERMLs are a bit OP, and ghost heat has loophole issues - there's nothing about the Timberwolf itself that inherently OP.

Second, the Thunderbolt is heavily armored for a 65 tonner (and it gets quirk on top of that). It would be a mean brawler if it wasn't also getting godmode quirks that transform it into something that performs more on the level on an 85 tonner, and no 85 tonner can hope to go as fast or to use MPLs at such a ridiculously long range.

I've watched 5SS's walk all over ALL competition in the game, not just Timberwolves. People need to stop begging for their mechs to be op, or to remain OP, by comparing their chosen god-mode mech to a fictatious version of the Timberwolf being OP.

Edited by Telmasa, 20 April 2015 - 11:20 AM.

[NameNotAvailable]

Telmasa, on 20 April 2015 - 11:20 AM, said:

First, the Timberwolf is not that amazing. Big bulbous CT catapult nose, it just has visible side torsos and long dangly arms compared to the Catapult. CERMLs are a bit OP, and ghost heat has loophole issues - there's nothing about the Timberwolf itself that inherently OP.

Second, the Thunderbolt is heavily armored for a 65 tonner (and it gets quirk on top of that). It would be a mean brawler if it wasn't also getting godmode quirks that transform it into something that performs more on the level on an 85 tonner, and no 85 tonner can hope to go as fast or to use MPLs at such a ridiculously long range.

I've watched 5SS's walk all over ALL competition in the game, not just Timberwolves. People need to stop begging for their mechs to be op, or to remain OP, by comparing their chosen god-mode mech to a fictatious version of the Timberwolf being OP.

If this were true, you'd see lots of 5SS's. But you don't... because it's not true. The 5SS is an ok mech now, it's certainly not overpowered.

[Scout Derek]

NameNotAvailable, on 20 April 2015 - 01:17 PM, said:

If this were true, you'd see lots of 5SS's. But you don't... because it's not true. The 5SS is an ok mech now, it's certainly not overpowered.

Agreed. While you still have those good quirks, don't expect it to engage in long range combat, plus it's only able to take on at most 2 mechs, if 3 focus fire you can be sure you're dead.

[Bows3r]

Telmasa, on 20 April 2015 - 11:20 AM, said:

First, the Timberwolf is not that amazing. Big bulbous CT catapult nose, it just has visible side torsos and long dangly arms compared to the Catapult. CERMLs are a bit OP, and ghost heat has loophole issues - there's nothing about the Timberwolf itself that inherently OP.

Second, the Thunderbolt is heavily armored for a 65 tonner (and it gets quirk on top of that). It would be a mean brawler if it wasn't also getting godmode quirks that transform it into something that performs more on the level on an 85 tonner, and no 85 tonner can hope to go as fast or to use MPLs at such a ridiculously long range.

I've watched 5SS's walk all over ALL competition in the game, not just Timberwolves. People need to stop begging for their mechs to be op, or to remain OP, by comparing their chosen god-mode mech to a fictatious version of the Timberwolf being OP.

Timber Wolf isn't that good? I think you need your skills checked. There is a reason that in PUG drops and comp play alike it's considered the best 'mech. 28 tons of pod space, 5 DHS already in the 'mech, and the ability to take 1/2 jump jets. What this means to the average PUG player like yourself, is that the Timber Wolf has literally shaped the meta around it since its inception into the game. Heavy Brawler? http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7481d298f1a7693 check. You want a mid range alpha 'mech that conforms to the current meta, and actually IS the current meta? http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e40f82aba652d31 check. Previous build too hot for you? http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ee9ceee2cde67c7 check. Oh, you wanted a pop-tart too? http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6d244df5f4cef30 CHECK.

Saying the Timber Wolf is not phenominal is like saying the King Crab is better then a Dire Wolf. It is NOT. I think you should seriously actually PLAY the Timber Wolf. You may be surprised.

Oh, and you wanted a build to prove why it needs the quirks it has? http://mwo.smurfy-ne...569ab2eaa7f3712 CHECK!!

Edited by Bows3r, 20 April 2015 - 01:45 PM.

[xMintaka]

NameNotAvailable, on 20 April 2015 - 01:17 PM, said:

If this were true, you'd see lots of 5SS's. But you don't... because it's not true. The 5SS is an ok mech now, it's certainly not overpowered.

You do in comp, CW and high level group play. I see plenty in the solo queue as well. After TBR/HBR they are one of the most common heavy mechs fielded.

[Telmasa]

NameNotAvailable, on 20 April 2015 - 01:17 PM, said:

If this were true, you'd see lots of 5SS's. But you don't... because it's not true. The 5SS is an ok mech now, it's certainly not overpowered.

You're delusional. Thunderbolt-5SS is *the* most common mech I see used in any game mode - probably more common than the Timberwolf. Where have you been playing?

Bows3r, on 20 April 2015 - 01:40 PM, said:

Timber Wolf isn't that good? I think you need your skills checked. There is a reason that in PUG drops and comp play alike it's considered the best 'mech. 28 tons of pod space, 5 DHS already in the 'mech, and the ability to take 1/2 jump jets. What this means to the average PUG player like yourself, is that the Timber Wolf has literally shaped the meta around it since its inception into the game. Heavy Brawler? http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7481d298f1a7693 check. You want a mid range alpha 'mech that conforms to the current meta, and actually IS the current meta? http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e40f82aba652d31 check. Previous build too hot for you? http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ee9ceee2cde67c7 check. Oh, you wanted a pop-tart too? http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6d244df5f4cef30 CHECK.

Saying the Timber Wolf is not phenominal is like saying the King Crab is better then a Dire Wolf. It is NOT. I think you should seriously actually PLAY the Timber Wolf. You may be surprised.

Phenominally flexible 75 ton omni-mech? Yes.
Phenominally over-powering? No.

And I have a mastered Timberwolf. Have I run the 'metabuilds'? Yes. Do I choose to anymore? No. The only reason they work is cause CERML spam is OP. I don't enjoy it.

That's what I'm trying to get across here.

Quote

Oh, and you wanted a build to prove why it needs the quirks it has? http://mwo.smurfy-ne...569ab2eaa7f3712 CHECK!!

Hey, look at what my Awesome-9M can do too (I do believe the mechlab numbers are unquirked, btw): http://mwo.smurfy-ne...730d20a04cc999c
Oh, what's this, the Orion can do it too? http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b2e850801e3daec (notes: less alpha, yet similar sustained DPS, better range, and *all* in the arms - meaning hiding the torso or corner poking is very easy, whereas the Timber has to let it all hang out to get that alpha)

Grasshopper says hi: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ff1f83d887cf520 (slower, yet STD engine & jumpjets & superb hardpoints - have you noticed the Grasshopper doesn't get god-mode quirks like the Thunderbolt does and still manages to be fairly popular?)

This one skews things, cause Battlemasters are 85 tons, but note this is a STD engine: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...bf7038e464c4e08

Last but not least, the *65 ton* Thunderbolt 5SS (again, remember the assumption of unquirked numbers!) http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8862b2d7739ff69
(even the sane-r, commonplace STD engine build keeps up with that TBR in sustained DPS: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...724ddd59bcf4933

I'm not seeing the "OP" gap between your Timber build and these builds whatsoever - nor do I see the justification for superman quirks. 12.5%-15%, fine, nothing more - definitely not freakin' 50% (that is, double, if you know your math)

Edited by Telmasa, 20 April 2015 - 10:45 PM.

[Bows3r]

Telmasa, on 20 April 2015 - 10:42 PM, said:

You're delusional. Thunderbolt-5SS is *the* most common mech I see used in any game mode - probably more common than the Timberwolf. Where have you been playing?



Phenominally flexible 75 ton omni-mech? Yes.
Phenominally over-powering? No.

And I have a mastered Timberwolf. Have I run the 'metabuilds'? Yes. Do I choose to anymore? No. The only reason they work is cause CERML spam is OP. I don't enjoy it.

That's what I'm trying to get across here.



Hey, look at what my Awesome-9M can do too (I do believe the mechlab numbers are unquirked, btw): http://mwo.smurfy-ne...730d20a04cc999c
Oh, what's this, the Orion can do it too? http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b2e850801e3daec (notes: less alpha, yet similar sustained DPS, better range, and *all* in the arms - meaning hiding the torso or corner poking is very easy, whereas the Timber has to let it all hang out to get that alpha)

Grasshopper says hi: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ff1f83d887cf520 (slower, yet STD engine & jumpjets & superb hardpoints - have you noticed the Grasshopper doesn't get god-mode quirks like the Thunderbolt does and still manages to be fairly popular?)

This one skews things, cause Battlemasters are 85 tons, but note this is a STD engine: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...bf7038e464c4e08

Last but not least, the *65 ton* Thunderbolt 5SS (again, remember the assumption of unquirked numbers!) http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8862b2d7739ff69
(even the sane-r, commonplace STD engine build keeps up with that TBR in sustained DPS: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...724ddd59bcf4933

I'm not seeing the "OP" gap between your Timber build and these builds whatsoever - nor do I see the justification for superman quirks. 12.5%-15%, fine, nothing more - definitely not freakin' 50% (that is, double, if you know your math)

So, let me ask, why the hell are you comparing an 80 ton mech (in a whole different weight class) that not only is inherently fragile with massive torsos that are easy to hit AND occurs ghost heat, but you threw an IS XL ontop of it? And, that Orion is not nearly comparable to the 7 MPL Timber. XL engine with atlas easy to isolate torsos (WTF???). You need to go back to the training grounds, 16 DHS, with bad laser quirks, what you built was not only a fraction as effective as the actual thing, but a deathtrap, and a sweatbox at the same time. You oughta get your builds straight if you're trying to argue as to the dominance of the Timber Wolf, a fact that has been long accepted by basically every comp player out there including myself.

Oh, and that Battlemaster build is not only slow and too hot to be viable, but is waaaay out of the Timber Wolf's weight class.

With all of these builds, you are COMPLETELY failing to take into account actual heat generated and its ability to actually alpha strike 3 times. Like I said, actually play the Timber Wolf, with the meta builds, and come to these poorly made builds, you WILL notice the difference.

And, you're right, the Thunderbolt and the Timber Wolf MPL meta builds aren't that much different, as it should be. The Thunderbolt NEEDS its current quirks, (maybe slightly toned down) to be competitive.

[Rushin Roulette]

So... someone posts an old IS Quirked mech and suddenly you have 2 fronts on the subject.

Clanners say the IS mechs are overpowerd but the Clan mechs are just right
IS players say the Clan mechs are overpowered but teh IS mechs are just right


Looks like balance has been perfectly achieved to me.

[Bows3r]

Rushin Roulette, on 23 April 2015 - 01:00 AM, said:

So... someone posts an old IS Quirked mech and suddenly you have 2 fronts on the subject.

Clanners say the IS mechs are overpowerd but the Clan mechs are just right
IS players say the Clan mechs are overpowered but teh IS mechs are just right


Looks like balance has been perfectly achieved to me.

I'm talking from a purely competitive standpoint, my faction means absolutely squat. What happens in PUG's does not affect me in the slightest. That being said, the Timber Wolf is well known to be extremely powerful, but the Thunderbolt 5SS is very competitive with the Timber Wolf in the Thunderbolt 5SS's limited niche, however it's still arguably weaker.

Edited by Bows3r, 23 April 2015 - 01:04 AM.

[Kotev]

5SS is awsome mech, i play in my CW dropdeck. If you stay in cover for the enemy to get to about 300-330 m then it really shines. It runs hot but with coolant 9b9 and 6 you have 4-5 alphas which is enough to kill any mech. Is it overpowered? NO.

[Telmasa]

Bows3r, on 23 April 2015 - 12:49 AM, said:

And, you're right, the Thunderbolt and the Timber Wolf MPL meta builds aren't that much different, as it should be. The Thunderbolt NEEDS its current quirks, (maybe slightly toned down) to be competitive.

The point here is to show you can get similar paper numbers found on the TBR "meta" builds with IS mechs, by min/maxing the equipment. If we had the Black Knight it would be alot easier to demonstrate.

And no, if the Thunderbolt can have numbers that close to the TBR's without quirks, why does it need quirks at all?

If it's walking all over every other IS mech in the game, I don't think it's balanced. And neither should a 65-tonner be fighting on par with, or better than, a 75-tonner.

I'm absolutely willing to bet, when the Black Knight comes around, as a 75 tonner it'll be able to give the Timber a run for its money with all but the missile-boating.

That's the thing with the Orion, it suffers Atlas syndrome: for 'meta' success, the most you can really do is try to brawl with it.

Again, I need to clarify: there's always going to be a Clan-tech advantage to some degree. The point that is important is whether it's OP or not.

Anyway going way off track for this thread. Just keep in mind that the 5SS is artificially better than it ought to be.

[Bows3r]

Telmasa, on 23 April 2015 - 08:19 AM, said:

And no, if the Thunderbolt can have numbers that close to the TBR's without quirks, why does it need quirks at all?

It's not only about the numbers, but I agree, i'll stop derailing the thread.

Edited by Bows3r, 24 April 2015 - 02:37 AM.

[Jorunn]

Couple of threads made me think a couple of these would be a better buy than the next Warhawk I was grinding away for, since I need something for CW when I go abuse myself again.

Played with a few builds, all are pretty hot but found this TDR-5SS to be fun
310XL, 3x ERPPC, 2x MPL

PS: Realizing the TDR-9S is quirked for ERPPCs I got that and am having a go, will update my 5SS...

Yep, better as a ThunderWub lol

Edited by Jorunn, 25 April 2015 - 10:59 PM.

[Colonel Clunge]

Kotev, on 23 April 2015 - 01:42 AM, said:

5SS is awsome mech, i play in my CW dropdeck. If you stay in cover for the enemy to get to about 300-330 m then it really shines. It runs hot but with coolant 9b9 and 6 you have 4-5 alphas which is enough to kill any mech. Is it overpowered? NO.

Did anyone else have real issues with their T-bolts while they were mastering them? I have to say, I'm not quite feeling the love for them that's being said here. At the moment (without basic skill levels mastered) they torso twist so slowly that I'm a sitting duck if I ever get more than one opponent at a time.

Please tell me they get a lot better as you unlock the Elite skills?

(otherwise it's just me being a rubbish pilot - which is entirely possible )

[Anunknownlurker]

@Colonel Clunge - yep, I found being fully elited makes a huge difference to the T-bolt. I didn't see what all the fuss was about whilst skilling but as I got more used to the chassis and the heat, speed and torso perks kicked in I finally got it.

BUT it is as easily killed as any other mech if you get out of position, get focused by multiple enemies or play poorly. Even the mighty Thunderwub isn't an "I-win" button for an average pilot like me. I am enjoying it, don't get me wrong, but I still have to watch my position and avoid getting flanked or rushed,is it a keeper? Yes, for as long as it avoids the nerf-hammer!