401 replies to this topic

[--Saint--]

I`d say all laser quirks should be abandoned.

Lasers are already OP (I love lasers so I hate to admit it)

The main problem generally, is that laser duration is far too short, making damage too easy to pinpoint, making boating them preferable to lugging AC20s or PPCs, and even their pulse counterparts, since they achieve the same effect for less tonnage, less crit space and even less heat sometimes.

So yes, get rid of duration, reload and heat reduction Quirks for lasers.

If you de-quirk, and tweak laser duration upwards of 1 sec for even Slas, you´ll see people opting much more for PPCs, ACs and Pulse lasers.

Range Quirks are not terrible.

[Wildstreak]

Given all the Jenner comments, I would say whatever quirks the Firestarter got that put the Jenner out of work.
Strange how Jenner buffs are asked for but no one considers modifying the Firestarter as well.

[Machinae Mortis]

Wildstreak, on 23 April 2015 - 09:16 AM, said:

Given all the Jenner comments, I would say whatever quirks the Firestarter got that put the Jenner out of work.
Strange how Jenner buffs are asked for but no one considers modifying the Firestarter as well.

The problem is the FS9 is too powerful in today's game, but nobody knows what the arrival of the Arctic Cheetah is going to do to that.

If the Arctic Cheetah wasn't looming on the horizon I'd be advocating for not only less quirks on the FS9 but a slightly lesser engine cap as well (XL 275-280 - 140.0-142.6 kph). It's hard to make balance changes like that, though, when the light game has the potential to change so dramatically in slightly less than three months.

Hopefully they know what's in store for the Arctic Cheetah by now, so perhaps they have a bar in mind. If that bar is the FS9, then by all means bring the rest of the lights in line. If the target is more in line with the Jenner, then sure, go ahead and bump the FS9 down a bit.

Edited by Machinae Mortis, 23 April 2015 - 09:32 AM.

[Wolf486]

Most of the weapons specific quirks.

I'm fine with the standard quirks on the AWESOME 9M: ENERGY RANGE: 12.50 % ENERGY HEAT GENERATION: -12.50 % ENERGY COOLDOWN: 15.00 % LASER DURATION: -15.00 %. I don't like the weapons specific quirks like ER PPC RANGE: 12.50 % ER PPC HEAT GENERATION: -12.50 % ER PPC VELOCITY: 25.00 %(I get the Velocity one as PPCs suck on speed of the projectile). I don't like being handcuffed into a build to take advantage of the quirks because they stack. I also don't like feeling forced in a direction when I do a build. I'm for just increasing the standard quirks and remove the weapons specific ones. Maybe I don't care for PPC's on my Awesome and I want lasers, why should the PPC version be better then my Laser version or receive better quirks? So maybe the Awesome 9M should have it's quirks done like this instead. AWESOME 9M: ENERGY RANGE: 25 % ENERGY HEAT GENERATION: -25 % ENERGY COOLDOWN: 15.00 % LASER DURATION: -25.00 % ER PPC VELOCITY: 25.00 %. This looks to even things up and allow for more divers builds without the feeling of being pressured, forced, urged, steered, or nudged in a specific direction.

[Ragnahawk]

This is such a cluster that for a person to read this and decide on which quirks, the decisions may be unfair on players. This should be discussed in a separate quirks subforum with permanent topics for each mech. Not this way.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

F8Sealed, on 23 April 2015 - 02:30 PM, said:

This is such a cluster that for a person to read this and decide on which quirks, the decisions may be unfair on players. This should be discussed in a separate quirks subforum with permanent topics for each mech. Not this way.

No. While it might be interesting to see the back-and-forth between fanboys and haters of any given 'mech, for the Dev team to get involved in that, or especially to set it up and encourage it, would almost certainly mean that the needed changes would not be timely.

I'm happy they're considering our feedback at all. I'd be even more happy if, every patch, they included a dozen or so quirk tweaks and stated the reason for them. For example, a statement like this ... "the sustained DPS of the WVR-6K is significantly higher than any other 55 ton Inner Sphere 'mech, for we decreased the Heat Generation, Cooldown, and Duration quirks from XX% to YY% to bring them in line" ... would go a long way towards explaining the rationale for changes (note, this is just an example ... they haven't "ruined the wolverine again" yet). Not everyone will like the changes, but anyone with any sense should understand why they're necessary.

[RedDevil]

5% Increased MG range? Has to be the worst one by far.

[Wildstreak]

Wolf486, on 23 April 2015 - 01:21 PM, said:

Most of the weapons specific quirks.

I'm fine with the standard quirks on the AWESOME 9M: ENERGY RANGE: 12.50 % ENERGY HEAT GENERATION: -12.50 % ENERGY COOLDOWN: 15.00 % LASER DURATION: -15.00 %. I don't like the weapons specific quirks like ER PPC RANGE: 12.50 % ER PPC HEAT GENERATION: -12.50 % ER PPC VELOCITY: 25.00 %(I get the Velocity one as PPCs suck on speed of the projectile). I don't like being handcuffed into a build to take advantage of the quirks because they stack. I also don't like feeling forced in a direction when I do a build. I'm for just increasing the standard quirks and remove the weapons specific ones. Maybe I don't care for PPC's on my Awesome and I want lasers, why should the PPC version be better then my Laser version or receive better quirks? So maybe the Awesome 9M should have it's quirks done like this instead. AWESOME 9M: ENERGY RANGE: 25 % ENERGY HEAT GENERATION: -25 % ENERGY COOLDOWN: 15.00 % LASER DURATION: -25.00 % ER PPC VELOCITY: 25.00 %. This looks to even things up and allow for more divers builds without the feeling of being pressured, forced, urged, steered, or nudged in a specific direction.

Actually, if you do the math, some weapon specific quirks are not THAT better than they look.
A few examples.
Grasshopper-5N - Has a PPC quirk but it worked better for me with LLs. I didn't need to ask for quirk changes, the benefits are fine.
Thuderbolt-9S - The infamous ERPPC Mech except I didn't like it with them at any time. I use it with LLs.
Enforcer-5P - UAC5 quirks, most carry 2, I only carry one paired with a ERPPC.
Panthers - PPC & LL quirks, most of the time I used MPLs and SRMs.
You have to actually do the math on some of the Mechs, despite having certain weapon specific quirks, you can still run them as you wish. We do not need to remove weapon specific quirks completely. If you think the quirks are locking you in, that's you, not the quirks or anything else.

[Koniks]

Nighthawk88, on 23 April 2015 - 08:04 AM, said:

I`d say all laser quirks should be abandoned.

Lasers are already OP (I love lasers so I hate to admit it)

If you de-quirk, and tweak laser duration upwards of 1 sec for even Slas, you´ll see people opting much more for PPCs, ACs and Pulse lasers.

This isn't accurate. IS lasers aren't OP without the quirks. Clan lasers are the meta despite a long beam duration because of their range and damage/ton. The decision not to nerf them further is what led to IS quirks in the first place.

IS ballistics and PPCs got nerfed (along with jump jets) pre-Clan to kill poptarting. And those changes are what make them less useful now without quirks. PPCs had their velocity reduced so they don't pair well with low-heat ballistics. Ballistics had their max effective range reduced by 1/3rd along with cooldown and velocity nerfs. And even if they hadn't, they still require facetime to do equivalent damage to Clan alphas.

[GreyNovember]

The Ember could use some love. 4E4B is almost always used as MPL/ML and MG.

As a 35 tonner, it can't fit something ridiculously heavy without sacrificing either Engine size, armor, or both. Why not make it worthwhile to run a bigger gun instead of the usual build?

Range and RoF/Beam duration quirks mostly. Other Firestarters already outclass it in heat gen, so give this one something to make the heat it produces worthwhile.

[Thorqemada]

Any Quirk that adds up above a 25% firing rate increase bcs Quirk + Module is a 37% firing rate increase and that is almost insane - in the game we have Quirks + Module that offer ~60% firing rate increase!

[Wormflush]

reddevil, on 23 April 2015 - 03:16 PM, said:

5% Increased MG range? Has to be the worst one by far.

That's right. As seen from the cockpit, a distance of 100 meters seems like an easy range I could reach by spitting. A quirk adding no more but 12 additional meters on max range doesn't make much of a difference.

[Kali Rinpoche]

I'm actually pretty okay with most quirks, but I don't like the quirks that promote boating 6 LL or 4-5 ppc's. It is not a good thing. It has caused a return to 2013 - early 2014. I thought we had gotten past every Stalker sporting 6 LLs. It was like this when I started playing in 2013. Didn't like it then and don't now.

Edited by Kali Rinpoche, 24 April 2015 - 07:39 AM.

[--Saint--]

Mizeur, on 23 April 2015 - 09:09 PM, said:

This isn't accurate. IS lasers aren't OP without the quirks.

I meant lasers as a weapon system (both Clan and IS) are very strong at the moment (eg. 2 Mlas is better than 1 ppc) and don´t really need quirking.

But you are right about Clan lasers being slightly better than IS lasers which is good because the opposite is true with LRMs and ACs (I really dislike the AC model for clans, but I understand why they did it like this), so it sort of balances things out.

With quirks, you´re just giving more advantages to IS lasers, which are not really needed. Balancing Is mechs to counter clan mechs is reasonable, we should just be careful not to over do it.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

Mike Forst, on 22 April 2015 - 04:36 PM, said:

I'm going to compile it and make some decisions based on it plus other information and data that I have available.

I have collected feedback up until this post. As per my usual policy I won't be commenting directly on which feedback has been noted but rest assured that I did collect a lot.

'No, I'm not going to tell you what I'm going to do based on this. But I will be doing something. Something MYSTERIOUS.'

Okay, just asking.

[cSand]

Tina Benoit, on 20 April 2015 - 10:11 AM, said:

Hello MechWarriors!

Those of you who listened to the Town Hall on April 16th may remember the discussions regarding Quirks!

This thread is to hear out your feedback regarding your least favorite Quirks, pick the top 3 that you wish were different!

Tina

I love that the QKD 4H doesn't have LRM quirks anymore and that wa great you guys listened there,

But I REALLY REALLY miss the SRM range quirks it used to have. That was awesome and if possible... would love to have those back, In place of the cooldown quirks or w/e else you want to replace. So that's my vote!

[ASHTAR0N]

1. All 50% Cooldown and range Quirks.(DRG-1N, TDR-5SS, Grid Iron...)

These are overpowered and completly change the way a certain weapon works. For example using med pulse lasers gives you a good punch but at a limited range. So if you want to be able to deal damage at a longer range you have to take a larger weapon as a backup, but the the range Quirks on the TDR-5SS negate this system.


2. All projectile spead quirks.

As mentioned before, these actually make it harder to hit something, because you always have to get used to the slightly different spead on different mechs.


3. PPC/ERPPC Quirks

At the moment you only use PPCs on mechs that have spead quirks for it, so if a mech has PPC quirks without a spead boost these are just useless (ZEU-6T, GHR-5N).

PPC/ERPPCs just need a general overhaul.

[Sereglach]

Ok, taking some time to weight in on this. Not expecting any sort of responses, just leaving my thoughts. If we're allowed to pick our top 3, then I'd only need to pick one(category):

The overwhelming majority of Weapon Quirks. These should be done more as a last resort to make a variant viable.

Now, don't get me wrong. I love mechs like my CN9-D auto-shotgun of doom, but that shouldn't be what is needed to make the mech more viable over others. Also, if you NEED to use weapon quirks to revitalize a mech, then they should be only one or two, and they should be 75% generic quirk with only a 25% narrow quirk, rather than the current 50/50 weapon quirk spread.

On top of it, instead of a specific weapon for the "narrow" quirk, make it a weapon series . . . like the small laser series, or the pulse series, or the ER series, etc. That way, if someone wants to use the ballistic cooldown on the Jager with the extra edge for the "Autocannon 5 series" to run the triple AC/5 Jager, then they know where to go.

That way you can also still keep variants with a certain feel. Firestarter Example: We've got 5 variants, the H, A, K, S, and Ember Hero. However if you want to run cool take the K because you give it the heat generation quirk, or take the S if you want energy range or the H if you want ballistic range. Then consider the A for energy cooldown for quick burst damage or the Ember if you want extra ballistic ammo and rate of fire. If you want to give all Firestarters a weapon quirk to make them unique, then give them a flamer quirk (after the reengineering happens) to fit the chassis' role and lore.

Currently, you've got so many weapon quirks on similar mechs that some variants are utterly obsoleted by their brethren (still . . . I might add) because the quirks on one mech are flat out better than the other. If you give two blackjacks a massive ballistic cooldown but one has jumpjets while the other doesn't (akin to the current BJ-1 and BJ-1DC) . . . guess what . . . that jumping blackjack is still going to be the superior choice for running a pair of AC/2s. Try giving the jumper the range and heat gen to snipe from high-ground and put his jump jets to good use throughout a fight; then give the walker the increased fire-rate and ammo supply to let it really lay down suppressing fire.


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Not all mechs need huge weapon quirks. Most mechs could really get by with armor and/or structure buffs. Much smaller weapon quirks could be used for flavor between variants.

After all, what are the primary complaints of why a variant or mech sucks? . . . It typically comes down to either hit-boxes, durability (normally linked to hit-boxes), or hard-points. The first two problems are fixed by giving a mech with poor hit-boxes/durability armor and/or structure quirks to fit the mech. The Centurion "shield arm", the huge Dragon snout, and the Awesome barn-door-torsos are all prime examples of ways to quirk the mech's durability and making it better fit its role.

Only use weapon quirks when you've got two variants of a similar chassis with really similar hardpoints (the reason for the Firestarter example above . . . they've all got similar hardpoints and capabilities), or when one is drastically inferior to another in hardpoints/capabilities. Even then, why do we need a PPC machine gunning Awesome? Answer . . . because we've quirked so many other similar mechs energy cooldown abilities. By that point you've run out of something to make the Awesome special . . . except for giving it absurd quirks . . . that most people still don't use, because there are still better choices out there for boating PPCs.


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Across weight classes, take their brethren into consideration. For example, in the 80 ton bracket for Inner Sphere, you've got the Awesome, Victor, and Zeus.

The Awesome should be quirked with durability to make up for it's huge barn-doors. The Awesome is also inferior to it's other brethren in a lot of ways, so quirking the variants with a pair of quirks for either energy (PPC focus) or missile (LRM focus) capabilities is not out of the question. Again, one or two per, so you actually have a reason to take an 8Q over a 9M or an 8T over an 8R.

The Victor really should be able to get by without any serious weapon quirks, and should just have a bunch of mobility and some durability quirks to help it get around and brawl. If you give it a weapon quirk, each variant can have a flavor of their own based upon their primary weapons in the ballistic arm between Fire Rate, Range, and Ammo.

On the other hand, the Zeus is meant to be an all-around-tank. This thing should have large blanket quirks for durability that make it as tough as a stock 90 tonner. Then, to add flavor, choose the high point of each variant and give a small weapon quirk to push it above it's kin, but not negate the reason for bringing an Awesome or Victor.



TL;DR - It's a pile of thoughts for the developers to take into consideration.

[Navid A1]

Ok where should i start regarding the IFR-PRIME

The thing that is wrong with the IFR-PRIME is its CT compared to other variants' CTs. It has no hardpoint in it. You may say that, well its just one less hardpoint... but that lack of a single hardpoint can result in 20-25% less weapons.

with the quirks based on hardpoints, the sole reason behind IFR-prime's inferiority gets less quirks to make it even more inferior... and that affects the fate of a whole variant as we can not change the CT pod.

IFR-prime is so so so dead.

The purpose of the quirks was to give a chance to underperforming chassis (like IFR and specially the prime). With the current quirks IFR-Prime is even worse than the unquirked version. (please remember: CT is not an omnipod... its the whole mech. and if has a key role in making a variant worse, then quirks to it will be very important to rectify its shortcomings)



My suggestion:
Give the prime crazy high quirks to its CT like 20% less laser heat... 50% higher heat cap. i mean something that makes taking IFR-PRIME out seems less like a lol action.
it can not boat anything and will loose its arms fast... so its not gonna be OP.

[Bandaron]

Atlas RS already ran hot before quirks with 4LL. So you gave it ... a large laser cooldown quirk. Which yes, lets you do damage faster, but amounts to a nerf in the one area - heat generation - that already had issues.

I'd swap that cooldown quirk for heat generation in a minute.