401 replies to this topic

[FuDawg]

Psychorat, on 09 May 2016 - 07:15 PM, said:

Want to balance stuff? remove all quirks and make it so that destroyed components/ammo spent need to be buyed back after being destroyed/used.

-Give reasonnable reward(bonus) for "wins" while piloting owned mech.

-Make it so that completing mission objective(capping..) pays "MORE" than doing 100 damage... unless it is a skirmish.

-Give current reward for piloting "location mechs" (trial)

-Performance c-bill bonus

-Give scavenged parts.

-Give acces to ejection or dropship evac (with a vote, automatically loosing the match) to maybe avoid further damage to the mech...With a cowardise c-bill penalty.

-Small C-bill "bonus" for risk taken if the mech is destroyed while pilot still inside

That way better mechs with costly weapons would cost more to repair, while low cost/less effective mechs with low tech stuff in them would be cheap to repair.

-And all in all, give the clanners the overwelming technological power that they should have. They should be feared

-give clanner c-bill bonus for killing higher tonnage mech than their own.

-give clanner c-bill penalty for killing lower tonnage mech than their own.

Let the economy balance things out.

THAT reminds me of the ORIGINAL game a learned to work on computers so long ago so that I could play it. Top notch post dawg!

[Zombiees]

Do away given mech quirks. Let people choose the quirks as they level up with the mech. This will make it more personalized in their skill level and how they want to run it.

[Valar13]

Psychorat, on 09 May 2016 - 07:15 PM, said:

Want to balance stuff? remove all quirks and make it so that destroyed components/ammo spent need to be buyed back after being destroyed/used.

-Give reasonnable reward(bonus) for "wins" while piloting owned mech.

-Make it so that completing mission objective(capping..) pays "MORE" than doing 100 damage... unless it is a skirmish.

-Give current reward for piloting "location mechs" (trial)

-Performance c-bill bonus

-Give scavenged parts.

-Give acces to ejection or dropship evac (with a vote, automatically loosing the match) to maybe avoid further damage to the mech...With a cowardise c-bill penalty.

-Small C-bill "bonus" for risk taken if the mech is destroyed while pilot still inside

That way better mechs with costly weapons would cost more to repair, while low cost/less effective mechs with low tech stuff in them would be cheap to repair.

-And all in all, give the clanners the overwelming technological power that they should have. They should be feared

-give clanner c-bill bonus for killing higher tonnage mech than their own.

-give clanner c-bill penalty for killing lower tonnage mech than their own.

Let the economy balance things out.

Yeah, that'd work real ******* well with almost every competitive team being dedicated clanners...for about 2 weeks, for those teams.

V4V4, on 09 May 2016 - 05:11 PM, said:

Show me a poor preforming batman, aside from the cannon fodder.

batman? what?

[NUSQUAM]

Missile quirks on any Dragon.

With the nerf to it's hitboxes, the 20~ point higher CT is a thin strip from the cockpit glass to the pelvis, you're stuck with a STD engine. The Dragon is massive so going slow is a no-go. This means your armament is going to be a ballistic or two and lasers. Never a launcher, not enough spare tonnage.

And certainly never a SRM. In order to be able to use an SRM well you'll end up with the loadout of a light because the large STD engine, sufficient enough to be fast(325+), is soaking up your weight. The upside is you'll almost never lose your SRM because it's almost impossible to miss the STs.

Then you could try an LRM10, ERLLs, and some sort of ballistic with an XL and hang back. But what are you going to do with that LRM10? Not a whole lot. At that point the Gauss/2ERLL is going to win out.

So there is no good reason to use a launcher. No incentive. So the missile quirks are wasted.

[Cy Mitchell]

Can I say "all of them"? I am not a fan of quirks in general. I think they should be used very sparingly and only where absolutely necessary. Some of the all too evident power creep in the game is due to over quirked Mechs.

I hope that with the re-scale all quirks will be removed and only a few will be re-applied to fix obvious un-fixable problems with individual Mechs.

[Hunter Tseng]

Tai-atari, on 09 May 2016 - 11:14 PM, said:

Do away given mech quirks. Let people choose the quirks as they level up with the mech. This will make it more personalized in their skill level and how they want to run it.

This is in my opinion quite a good idea
Or maybe, rather than quirks why not try to implement something similar along the line of Retro fit like in Armoured Warfare?

Certain mech chassis has certain retro fit slot or multiple slots, for example I'm taking entirely from Armoured Warfare instances... 1 general retrofit upgrade slot, certain chasis has multiple mobility upgrade slots, firepower slots, electronic slots etc, etc...

Although I can see the problem with this will be balancing the retrofits... just like in Armoured Warfare but maybe its worth looking into as an option?

[Gorgo7]

My least favorite quirks would be ones that affect only one variant of a class and not the others.
To whit,
-A single variant that has twisting and turning quirks while the other six variants have none.
Battlemaster 2C is a good example.
-A single variant that has huge internal structure quirks while all other variants have limited or none.

These are my least favorite quirks.

[IQcreditscore]

The crappy 5% ppc heat gen on the marauder3. Gee thanks that 1/2 pt is usefull. All it does is encourage people to run a ppc when it is pretty awful to manage heatwise.

[ice trey]

Any quirks that have nothing to do with the stock version of the mech you bought. I hate those.

For example, PPC quirks on the 5K Quickdraw (I think we've done away with these, now)

If the weapons that come stock on the mech are SO DAMNED BAD that it's assumed that players won't use them, then at the very least, put general purpose quirks like "Energy weapons +20% range" or something like that. It also helps to encourage greater variation between builds.

One of the things about the Battletech setting is that - outside of Omnimechs - Battlemechs are not lego bricks. You couldn't just take any old gun and strap it on. (For those of you who argue this, you obviously have only played the wargame as pickup games, with none of the Repair and Refit modifiers for customization). For example, the early version of the Clint had an AC10 in the arm, which would have made it a fan favorite, but because of "Balance issues", it was changed to an AC5. Anything, in my mind, that encourages the player base to make mechs continue to feel - if only vaguely - like the stock version of said mech is good in my books.


But one thing I'd like to see is quirks that cover specifically high-caliber and low-caliber weapons, so High Caliber Ballistics for example, on the IS Side, would give players the quirks for AC 10, 20, LBX10 and Gauss, while low caliber would give quirks to the MG, AC2, AC5 and UAC5.

Edited by ice trey, 09 June 2016 - 11:04 PM.

[Reno Blade]

Hunter Tseng, on 09 June 2016 - 12:40 PM, said:

This is in my opinion quite a good idea
Or maybe, rather than quirks why not try to implement something similar along the line of Retro fit like in Armoured Warfare?

Certain mech chassis has certain retro fit slot or multiple slots, for example I'm taking entirely from Armoured Warfare instances... 1 general retrofit upgrade slot, certain chasis has multiple mobility upgrade slots, firepower slots, electronic slots etc, etc...

Although I can see the problem with this will be balancing the retrofits... just like in Armoured Warfare but maybe its worth looking into as an option?

This sounds very similar to what we have with the modules.
If the modules would also be able to provide more mobility (besides Hill Climb module) or sensor range and stuff...
I think with the PTS sensor changes the modules could also use some variants for sensors and mobility.

But on the other hand, if you had tons of slots, you could always choose the mech with the best slots and put in your favorits, just like you can do with the weapon hardpoints.
The quirks are there to make chassis and variants different between each other.

[WarmasterRaptor]

A positive quirk should be counterbalanced with a negative one, imo. (and vice-versa if needs be)

Example :

- Shorter duration : Heat penalty/Worse Cooldown
- Longer range : Longer Duration/Longer Cooldown
- Better Cooldown : Longer Duration/Heat penalty
- Lower missile spread : Longer lock time
- Ballistic Cooldown : Lower effective Range or accuracy
- Higher structure, Slower mech/Slower twist
- Faster Mech, Less twist
- Twistier Mech : Lower top speed
etc etc.

That I find could help create much differentiation between variants of the same chassis.

My two cents

[Sardauker Legion]

The Phoenix Hawk looks to be the biggest target in 40 - 50 ton range - even the Vindicator looks smaller - and as good as no range quirks:

PHX 1 MG ROF +25 / ML cooldown +20 / LL Range +10
PHX 1B MG ROF +30 / PPC velocity +50
PHX 1 K Std laser duration -5
PHX 2 Energy range +5
PHX 3S MG ROF +40 / ML Range + 20 / LPL Cooldown + 10

There are lot of Blackjack and Cicada with energy range +10. We choose what energy weapon: SL, ML, MPL, LL, ERLL, LPL. Only the PHX, has a Energy Range +5, the other quirks are related to certain weapons.

But it's the biggest target in his ton class.

[Lisdottir]

I'm going to list my favorites and the bad, and why.

Favorites:

1- CN9-D's LB10-X + General Ballistic CD = It changes how the weapon and 'mech in general works: Creates Uniqueness. Gives a specific reason to play that mech.

2 - Any Velocity modifier: It makes weapons better at longer ranges (Brawler here, giving love to everyone else)

3 - Utility Modifiers: NARC Modifiers in RVN-3L and AMS modifier in NVA-A are examples. Utility quirks like those give their 'mechs a whole new perspective. I actually feel really out of role for not using NARC on my raven.

4 - Vindicator's PPC Velocity Quirk: I hate using PPCs. I think PPCs are dumb weapons. Still, Vindicator's PPC quirks make him as interesting as CN9-D: he has a specific weapon that makes him very special in comparison to any other mech.

BAD:

1 - CN9's left arm (every model): Wasn't it supposed to be a dedicated shield? I'd expect the quirks to reflect that (by making the left arm really strong, fitted as a dedicated shield)

2 - ARC-5S - My big letdown: Supposedly outfitted to be the brawler Archer, it lacks support for being a decent brawler. Specifically, the Archer-5S has a LOT of trouble handling space, heat generation, firepower and speed at the same time, issues I never had with any other mech. (IMHO, better Heat quirks would solve these problems altogether). (PS: I really regret having bought the package for the Archer. The 5S looks amazing in paper/mechlab, but when I played it, discovered that his quirks are really lacking oomf)

3 - KTO-GB: I really think it is a nice 'mech... But it lacks the accl., dccl., turn and yaw RATES present on KTO-19. KTO GB is NOT the Golden Boy amongst the Kintaros.

Addendum: To finish it off, I really think we are missing quirks that make some 'mechs really unique, like the CN9-D. Hero 'mechs are some that should get quirks that make them unique (not necessarily better nor more niche than the other variants... Just different).

[Fake News]

negative timberwolf quirks. Are you all trying to say there shouldn't be an alpha mech?

[GalahadVGL13]

Projectile speed buffs/PPC speed buffs. I would prefer a more normalized system, and just think the speed buffs are silly. useful, but silly. speed up all projectiles and PPC's and drop the buffs.

I'd love it if you guys would just read the Tech Read Outs and base at least one positive or negative quirk on a quirk mentioned in the lore. but then, I'm a geek.

[PaGn]

Some good points brought forward in this thread...

Personally, as a part-time player, I think the current quirk system is just too intransparent. I own quite a few Mechs starting from the Founder package onwards to the first Clan Wave, and I have to look up at Smurfy far too often to find out which of the many kinds of different Quirks the individual Mechs actually have...

As quirks are, I dislike Quirks that just just make you calculate and go Meta while building a Mech. So I am all for reducing specific weapon quirks in favour of weapon group based quirks in the short term.
But for the long run, I would like to see more Quirks that makes the individual Mechs feel better/truer while playing (armor/structure, mobility/turnability/jump-ability, sensor quirks and so on).
And as someone wrote, giving certain Mechs a bit of "Lore" by handing out special quirks would help the immersion too.

[Aerei]

PPC quirks-- Okay. I agree that it would be kind of cool to make PPCs better on some mechs than others (just like how we have it for ballistic weapons, and used to have it for energy weapons), but in the case of PPCs, the quirks ultimately decide whether a PPC is even viable or not--and it's needing things like 50% velocity to do it! PPCs need to be looked at in general, and have some base improvements, especially in the velocity department.

MG RoF-- This was the worst idea I've seen in my relatively brief time playing this game---but it's still pretty bad. MGs aren't even that viable with the MG quirk, making the quirk itself a waste of space. Having an MG quirk could be interesting and fun, sure, but...MGs really need to be playable, first. At this point, all they really do is hit an open component and pray for crits, all the while maximizing facetime. That's not good.

Exclusively specific quirks--I don't mind the notion of 10% energy, 10% medium laser range, for example. It gives you an idea for a mech to specialize in something, but having just 20% medium laser range is a complete pigeon hole for designing, and in the case of some mechs (Phoenix Hawk PXH 1, I'm looking at you), it makes it so the quirks don;t even sync well. One L LAser range quirk, and one M laser cooldown quirk is underwhelming--but it boils down to an either or when you only have three energy ports. Not even an either or, as three M Lasers is a terribly underwhelming setup, Even with the resize, the Jenner F, or the Jenner D can do M lasers better. That's bad.

And since people are bringing up mechs, I'm going to toss in my two cents.

BJ1X/BJ3. Okay, back in the may patch era and slightly beyond that, the Blackjack was crazy good. Too good. On that, I see we can agree. However, right now, the ballistic blackjacks have better energy quirks. The Phoenix Hawk, which is almost universally seen as a bad mech, might be on par or better than the BJ1X now. Does that make the IS 45 tonners balanced? Yeah, sure. There's just one small problem...

You guys implemented clan mechs into the game.

Now I really hate to parrot the whole clan favoritism game, but this last update, when added to the last two or three, really makes it difficult to argue against that point anymore. Unless you guys are really going to reinstate negative quirks into clan mechs, you guys need to ease up, maybe have somecompetitive player feedback, or whatever. Anything but knee jerk quirk adjustments because clans are QQing about IS actually winning 50% of their matches. Spend five minutes looking at the faction war map, and tell me that clans are too weak compared to IS lately.

Locust-- Okay, people have bad aim in this game. I get it. I think it's silly to nerf a mech that's honestly only playable now due to every other light mech being huge, but why remove the offensive quirks as well? Getting rid of the offensive quirks would give someone more time to kill a Locust, nerfing the structure quirks means it takes less time to kill one. On the other hand, combining these nerfs makes a Locust much easier to kill, while the Locust basically has to face hug for frigging ever.

Marauder-- Some people will complain about the Warhammer nerf, and I agree that the recent patch is overkill, but the Marauder? Why? It's considered a poor comp mech choice as noted by the hosts of PGI's own tournament and is mediocre at best already. I thought the point of game balance was to have as many viable options as possible. What happened here?

[Khosumi]

All of them. Remove quirks.

[Kaptain]

Pretty much dislike all of the weapon ones.

I like extra armor/reduced crit chances on mechs like the AC20 hunchy.
Extra structure or leg armor on some lights makes sense.

[GI Journalist]

Velocity quirks change the laws of physics from chassis to chassis for inexplicable reasons. I despise them.