401 replies to this topic

[Vanguard319]

Can I consider Ghost heat and the bad Jump Jets quirks? Because they seriously need to go in favor of something else to balance weapons.

[Chimperator]

In my opinion the qurik system was a good try but it isnt the answer of all Problems

Weapon specific quriks are xxxxxx. You haven't a choice while configure your loadout... if you don't want to pass up to 200% more DMG output, cause of this 20-50% quriks, thats just too much !

A other good question is, why all mechs needs buff's ? Why not nerfing the few ones wich were a bit too strong before the first quriks came?
With all positiv quriks, the time to kill shrink and shrink and on some point we are in a oneshot shooter mechwarrior...
Maybe the mechs wich are too strong just need a smal reduction on max. heat capacities.


But if you "PGI" want to hold on to the qurik system, all Mechs with more then +25% quriks are simply broken...

Edited by Chimperator, 30 May 2015 - 12:42 PM.

[Keira RAVEN McKenna]

I cried when my Twolf and Hellbringer got beaten with the nerf bat. Unfortunately its sucked the fun from the game room so I bailed back to War Thunder. Paid for the Wave 3 mechs but I think I'll pass on it all for now. Its a cool game, but its gone beyond my lack of skills to find enjoyment in alternatives to my laser clan mechs. And as I understand it, the new laser bean duration quirks are LOOOOOONG.
Good luck PGI and the community, adapt and enjoy. I don't regret helping keep the game dream alive by buying every clan mech produced with real world cash, but I'm not good enough for the new quirks style game to have fun anymore.

[Mercer Skye]

Personally, any weapon specific quirk is one I despise, because it just makes you feel like an idiot building a rig in a direction that isn't 'optimal'. The only exception might be the range increases, but even than.

Any quirk that fights what you can max out on a build makes me cringe. The initial quirks for the Locust 1V forced you to meta it up with the single ER LL build that is boring and homogenized as it gets. But you could max that rig out with 4 MGuns, a Small Pulse or Med Laser, an AMS, and scoot around the field scavenging crippled 'mechs all day. I just had to ask if it was even considered to make it viable to do that build, even if it meant eating med laser specific quirks? Meta is one thing, being forced to build that way is another.

I really don't have a third, I just really have started hating being forced to build in specific directions to make 'mechs work well. I'm wondering if it wouldn't have been better to just provide some kind of bonuses for using non tier 1 'mechs, since PGI was honest enough about the whole thing to admit that there were tiers to the 'mechs to begin with.

[cSand]

Keira RAVEN McKenna, on 30 May 2015 - 02:32 PM, said:

I cried when my Twolf and Hellbringer got beaten with the nerf bat. Unfortunately its sucked the fun from the game room so I bailed back to War Thunder. Paid for the Wave 3 mechs but I think I'll pass on it all for now. Its a cool game, but its gone beyond my lack of skills to find enjoyment in alternatives to my laser clan mechs. And as I understand it, the new laser bean duration quirks are LOOOOOONG.
Good luck PGI and the community, adapt and enjoy. I don't regret helping keep the game dream alive by buying every clan mech produced with real world cash, but I'm not good enough for the new quirks style game to have fun anymore.

Ahhh

Blotto mentioned you the other night and we had been wondering where you disappeared to

[Censio]

Sry for my Bad English... but i think you know wath i mean!

how can it be possible that a dragon with his AC5 a higher DPS has such a Direwolf. How can it be possible that a Hunchback LRM more DPS than a stalker LRM boat.

The games are something of the short become one thinks you want Call of Duty. You let you my opinion of ignorant players pushing into the corner, see the only one chance when your Mech OP. And if you get your buffs and still lose will continue to cry Balance bla bla.

I found the balance in the closed beta quite pleasant. Prolonged fighting with sweat on his forehead. there were LRM boats, Jump sniper and brawler. Currently you only see the Quirk Mechs. Weapons in the mechs are only associated with quirks. no or hardly any attempts other builds in his mechs.

greetz Censio

[The Choppa]

After reading all of the replies here, I think it's safe to say the popular opinions are:

PPCs need to have their speed increased

Firestarters need to be toned down a little

No mech should have a 50% weapon quirk

The PPC change request has been going on for quite a while, on almost every forum where an opinion is warrented, I'm not sure why it isn't implemented.

Firestarters being so strong is another very common complaint, at least in this post it's because of it's quirks.

I didn't really give much thought into the "50% weapon quirk" until reading this through. I would agree however. Perhaps 30% should be the cap, and if 30% doesn't increase a particular mech's win/loss ratio, or amount played even, than the quirks are either for a wrong weapon system, or the mech has poor weapon slots, weapon placement, hitboxes, facial features etc thus would need a work-over outside of quirks. Has that happened yet in MWO though?

One quirk I would love to see more use of is LRM speed, and/or LRM/SRM spread reduction. Especially on Kintaros. When my ping goes haywire, I usually start using LRM mechs more but.... it just feels like I am not contributing to the team nearly as much as any other weapon group

[Frater Sender]

I think a high quirk on something is not the problem.
The quirks are one-sided and too general, short: not "balanced".
A positive effect must always have a negative facet.
example:
+50% quirk at the firerate should have a +25% weapon heat generation. This means the mech has a high
firerate but he heats up quick while he fires.
or:
+25% overall energie cooldown should have a -15% overall energie weapon range.
This allows a high laser firerate but only in a more limited range.

Changes like these makes the quirked mechs well in a special kind of fight and, maybe, worse in others.
Mechs get a better signification with balanced quirks without getting unsituable strong.

[Redshirt enraged]

My least favorite quirks?

Everything that forces people to "THE ONE" holy build...this mech mono culture is disappointing.

[Túatha Dé Danann]

1) Well, this is a personal thing. I don't play LRMs so any mech that got LRM-Quirks is just wasted - in general. For missiles, I want to see a more generalized approach.
2) Quirks towards projectile speed - to be honest, the most useless of all Quirks beside LRM-Quirks
3) Quirks that make no sense in terms of weapon consolidation. Like mixing PPC Quirks with MG Quirks to make a clear example.

If you want to put a mech into a roles with Quirks you should lay out a rough "usability" idea, like "Brawler", "Sniper", "Flanker" - have the weapons in mind that are used for this role and Quirk a mech accordingly. On this note, it doesn't make sense to give an Atlas "Flanker" Quirks, as the Atlas cannot flank.

Other than that, I have the feeling, that some Clan mechs could use a little bit of trade-off Quirks, like putting positive and negative Quirks together giving the player a choice. For example a heat reduction Quirk in combination with a duration increase.

Edit: Structure quirks are good on mechs with many hardpoints, armor Quirks for mechs with lower hardpoint count.
Lights could for example perfectly go with just structure Quirks if they mount 6-8 hardpoints.

Edited by Túatha Dé Danann, 01 June 2015 - 01:51 AM.

[Here5y]

Still don`t get it - why quirks at all ?

Quirk System is just perverted - when a 60 Ton IS Mech has almost the same Damage per Second Output like a 100 Ton Clan Mech you can only say it is plainly wrong. The Mech with the highest DP/s is the Hunchback 4 J which is a bad design decision too from my point of view.

How do you want to balance this ? I say we are talking about 25% Quirks here and there and Modules that add another 10% where we land at a 35% Buff.

You need to have 10% Buff to feel a real difference in performance, but if your Buffs get too high you will not be able to balance it in a sane way. So at least Quirks really need be toned down for most chassises from my point of view.


Whats the alternatives ? Battle Value System

A Chassis gets some Base BV. Good Chassis gets a highter Base BV
Some bad Chassis like Awesome get a lower Base BV
A Weapon like a Large Pulse Laser gets a higher BV
A Weapon like a SRM2 gets a lower BV
A Mech with Endo Steel? -> Higher BV.

Effect on matchmaking ?

Balancing via Matchmaker would happen then with ELO and Battle Value of the Overall Mech.

Result will be that Worse Chassis make sense - because you will be ranked against worse pilots or Mech(builds) that are as bad as your Build.
Another Result will be that good Players won't be forced to play good Builds and good chassis all the time to have a chance to win , because Matchmakting wont be based solely on ELO.

The other thing is that balancing in Community Warfare in IS against Clan Matches is done at the moment by a Tonnage Difference and Quirks.
Tonnage balancing didn`t even work on Tabletop, thats why they invented a battle Value System and it worked there, will work in MW:O, too. IN fact a german community already implemented one for balancing reasons during a tourney

Balancing in CW should be done solely by a Combat Value - rendering "bad" Chassises with a lowered Battle Value not worthless.

Source 1 http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Battle_Value

Source 2 http://mwomercs.com/...ttle-value-mbv/

Cheers,

Plizz

Edited by Plizzken, 01 June 2015 - 06:20 AM.

[Mechsniper]

The biggest problem I see is over/under nerfing with quirks. Many mechs have to be completely refit in a way completely different than the way they were sold. If I buy a mech with LRMS lasers and an AC and it has quirks that dictate I have to strip everything and load it with a gauss rifle, that's just ridiculous. Yet many of your quirks, such as the thunderbolt and locust quirks do just that. Many weapons are so sadly overnerfed right now due to listening to the crying of noobs that they are useless. PPCS ERPPCS, so slow, that while they are intended to be a sniper weapon, I have seen heavies and assaults simply step out of the way while they are in range. That's hopeless. They need more speed. A light can presetly move up down left right and back again before a PPC reaches it at 700M. NEGATIVE quirks on the clan mechs. WTFRACK??? Clan mechs are supposed to be the end all be all in MWO/battletech. IS pilots go into battle with clan mechs understanding that. The laser burn on clan mechs was already insanely long. Negative quirks on any mechs need to go. Weapon balance Cannot be achieved by quirks.

[stealthraccoon]

The Urbanmech quirks are not fair.
If I'm the littlest tugboat, and I bring a big gun to the playground, I am inherently limited to minimal ammo/armor/speed. If I'm gonna go out in a blaze of glory, I need some serious range/velocity/ROF quirks.


Give my Urbies quirks that encourage them to not be laser boats. I need to be able to lob AC20 rounds out there - I only got 14 of them, let me put them to use!

I do get a kick out of the IS small laser family range quirk, because Urbies don't use medium lasers!




PS - nerf all Firestarters, Stormcrows, Madcats or anything else that can cram 20 lasers in it - removing range estimation, velocity and ammunition management makes for a spray n pray party.

Edited by stealthraccoon, 02 June 2015 - 05:39 AM.

[Speedy Pinky]

The real problem is Boating. I get quirks ... i do boat it to give me the best result.
To prevent "Boating" make it simple.

as Example Laser:
Every group of Laser (Large Laser is diffent to Large Pulse Laser)
1 Laser + 10% Quirk
2 Laser 0% Quirk
3 Laser -10% Quirk
4 Laser -20% Quirk
and so on ... (the 10% steps are only a example ...)

if you have less from a group you get a bonus
and if you have more then life with the negativ quirks.

Now 2 Large Laser and 1 Large Pulse Laser a better then 3 Large Lasers!
I think that will fix the most of the problems ...
Then you will see less from the Mechs with 5x the same Laser.

Edited by Speedy Pinky, 02 June 2015 - 07:52 AM.

[tresspaser]

The Only complain I have about quirks would be the blackjack DC from an AC5 quirk to an AC2 quirk. 2 blackjacks with the same main weapon quirk is not good. I noticed the laser range and gives me an option to build a 4ER Large laser sniper with excellent range,but it is not very good mech to be running around.

Please bring back the AC5 quirks as they were for the BJ1-DC.

By the way, thanks for banning all those cheaters and I would like to say, there were quite a few of those names that I recognized and let me tell you, it did not help them much as I remember them. Keep it up and make it more known what you are doing since it will give a boom of evidence providers. I know I will start keeping a closer eye and recording.

Edited by tresspaser, 02 June 2015 - 03:58 PM.

[Valar13]

Honestly the only ones I'm not loving atm are the Irresistible Resistance 'Mechs. But I get that they're right off the factory floor and need to be tested out first. So no real suggestions, other than how much I would love to see a heat gen quirk on the new GHR.

[Here5y]

Speedy Pinky, on 02 June 2015 - 07:51 AM, said:

The real problem is Boating. I get quirks ... i do boat it to give me the best result.
To prevent "Boating" make it simple.

as Example Laser:
Every group of Laser (Large Laser is diffent to Large Pulse Laser)
1 Laser + 10% Quirk
2 Laser 0% Quirk
3 Laser -10% Quirk
4 Laser -20% Quirk
and so on ... (the 10% steps are only a example ...)

....

Yo dawg , I heard yo like Ghost Heat, so I ghosted ur Ghost Heat to make it Negative Quirked Ghost Heat.

I just want to point to the proposal of Kanajashi here , that is out here for a while - somehow same effect, way less ghost heatish borked design.



Cheers,

Plizz

[H I A S]

There are so many Mechs outside, with bad Hitboxes/Hardpoints, that they need absolutly Trollquirks to be viable...
The Mechs still bad, but with DPS from Hell.
Why must all Mechs be viable?

[Tuann]

any quirk, which gives a combined advantage of over 25% is insane.

[The Blue Katana]

Tuann, on 08 June 2015 - 03:30 AM, said:

any quirk, which gives a combined advantage of over 25% is insane.

It's our only hope vs Clans whose tech is like a perma-25% innately... (hyperbole)