Jump to content

Quirks: Your Most Favorite!


171 replies to this topic

#21 Kinski Orlawisch

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Galaxy Commander III
  • Galaxy Commander III
  • 2,282 posts
  • LocationHH

Posted 20 April 2015 - 01:35 PM

MEDIUM PULSE LASER RANGE: 25.00 % ENERGY RANGE: 25.00 % ENERGY HEAT GENERATION: -15.00 % ENERGY COOLDOWN: 15.00 %
The combination boost.

#22 Nothing Whatsoever

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 3,655 posts
  • LocationNowhere

Posted 20 April 2015 - 01:43 PM

Armor and Structure quirks are my top two. Toughening mechs up to better account for hitboxes, is always welcome.

I think any quirk is still open to change though.

#23 _____

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Cub
  • The Cub
  • 742 posts

Posted 20 April 2015 - 01:52 PM

Like:

1. STK-4N LL quirks
2. RVN-2X LL quirks
3. AWS-8Q PPC quirks - could be better imo, like +35-40% velocity like the Vindicator gets

#24 Bows3r

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Cadet
  • Cadet
  • 229 posts
  • Twitch: Link
  • Location3 time World Champion

Posted 20 April 2015 - 02:12 PM

My favorite quirks, lets see here..

The Firestarter A, maybe a tad more range, but otherwise, very competitive as short ranged striker and light killer.

The Dragon 1N. 50% quirks may be overboard, but if there is any 'mech that needs them more then any other, it's the Dragon 1N. It is only effective because of the quirks, take those away, and it will become nothing as it once was. As far as I see it, that's the only effective way to have the quirks laid out for it since it has such a terrible hard-point distribution and that absolutely massive RA that has all of its firepower. The only change I could foresee needing to be done is a major increase of the armor on that RA, but that's pretty optional imho.

The Thunderbolt 5SS, 9S, and 9SE. 3 'mechs that were affected by the Dragon 1N syndrome of being absolutely rock-bottom before quirks. The quirks literally lent them a new lease on life, in an identical fashion to the Dragon 1N. Like the Dragon 1N, they have a naturally poor shape, and as such are fairly easy to kill/disarm, although not as easy to kill/disarm as the Dragon 1N.

The Wolverine 6K. Basically a Dragon 1N in every way before the quirks. Now a Dragon 1N in every way after the quirks. Although significantly more versatile, and that's how it should stay, with possibly a sight nerf.

#25 happy mech

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 392 posts

Posted 20 April 2015 - 02:26 PM

i really like the blackjack and jagermech quirks, each of them is unique but useful

#26 Gumon Choji

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Wrath
  • Wrath
  • 206 posts

Posted 20 April 2015 - 02:33 PM

I love the quirks on the Awesomes. They make them viable. Especially since they are walking barns. You need the range they have now. I also love the AC5 stuff as it encourages faster game play. I played the same builds prior to and after the quirks and notices a lot less shooting and waiting around in games specifically with dragons. I also like how some of the non viable mechs are made good enough to play due to quirks.

I do wish there was a negative quirk:
on Stalkers to limit them to not using 6 erLL.
Mad cats/ dier wolves not cheesing it so much
Stormcrow not using 6 SRM6
You know, the game breaking stuff that makes the game not fun. My though is the more of the same weapon you shoot the more your shot shakes (except arms). Not annoying to the player but a little wobble to limit alpha strikes of these silly builds. Arms would not have this penalty and reward players for using mechs mounts.

#27 oldradagast

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Philanthropist
  • 4,833 posts

Posted 20 April 2015 - 04:03 PM

The ones that reduce the spread on LBX's and the jam chance on UAC's. That shows some creativity and recognition of why certain weapons may or may not be used.

I also like the durability increases - my Hunchbacks and Awesomes in particular - though I do feel the choice of structure buffs vs. armor buffs so far feels somewhat random.

I "like" the PPC's quirks, but only in the sense that they make the weapon useful. What really needs to be done is that the PPC's need to be buffed and the quirks for them toned down.

Other quirk ideas:

1) Reduced screen shake from enemy hits

2) Reduced spread on missile weapons

3) Reduced target lock on time (for scouts and mechs known in lore for that type of role)

4) Better terrain mobility - easier time climbing hills and such

5) Assorted jump jet quirks.

6) Reduced chance to take critical hits (especially if engine criticals even show up)

Edited by oldradagast, 20 April 2015 - 04:04 PM.


#28 InspectorG

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Boombox
  • The Boombox
  • 4,469 posts
  • LocationCleveland, Ohio

Posted 20 April 2015 - 04:07 PM

View PostTina Benoit, on 20 April 2015 - 10:12 AM, said:



This thread is to hear out your feedback regarding your most favorite Quirks, the ones you don't want to change!


Cicada-B Generous but not OP, made a useless mech almost viable(comp).

#29 Enchiridion

    Member

  • PipPip
  • The Territorial
  • The Territorial
  • 31 posts

Posted 20 April 2015 - 04:43 PM

Hunchbacks, Wolverines & Thunderbolts are all pretty happy these days!

#30 Docta Pain

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Veteran Founder
  • Veteran Founder
  • 330 posts

Posted 20 April 2015 - 05:17 PM

My favorite quirk is the one that makes the command console worth it... oh, wait...

My Phoenix Variant Shadow Hawk was my favorite 'Mech pre-quirks. Quirks made that 'Mech... well... it went from first in class to tier 3 (at best). The quirks that are peoples' favorites made mine... a waste of tonnage. It made the game depend on skill soooooo much less.

Now I loose not based on my Elo vs someone else's Elo, but on my quirks vs their quirks.

Quirks. Are. All(mostly). Bad.

I'm opposed to quirks like I'm opposed to taxes.

Now that I've been honest with you, I can answer the question you asked, "the ones you don't want to change". Well, the ones I actually used most in CW were the Wolverine LPL, but you already removed those. So the Phoenix Variant Thunderbolt is my current cash cow, and the large laser duration range cooldown heatgen are the only things keeping it off of life support. Quirks breathed life into it, and they are just barely not good enough for the competitive teams to notice the chassis and make the forums cry, but it's a solid low tier 1 high tier 2 to me in the current quirk era.

Edited by Docta Pain, 20 April 2015 - 05:45 PM.


#31 White Bear 84

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 3,857 posts

Posted 20 April 2015 - 05:38 PM

View PostTank, on 20 April 2015 - 11:43 AM, said:

As an anti-boating measure, I would propose something of quirk negation if some weapons are too abundant - they would for example overload energy systems of a mech. Basis for how munch certain energy weapon would burden the systems could be hardwired to summary of damage points of stock configuration.

Example: mech have 2 PPCs - 20 points of unburdened energy output, can be replaced by 4 Medium Lasers to maintain the quirks.


Soooo...

You want 'ghost' ghost heat? :P

Another idea...

Add cumulative quirks. So if you put in 1 LL you might get a 20% range increase.. ..putting in 4 you get 5% range increase. Basically work under the assumption the more weapons you have the more internals would hypothetically be required for the quirks..

..say you quirk the TBR on medium laser cooldown (OUCH this is a crazy example!), a good concept would be say you have 1 medlass, the cooldown might be + 5%. Then for every laser added the quirk is reduced, until by the point your boating x medlas you actually have a negative quirk. If said variant had ballistics and they were quirked, you then have a reason to run both ballistics and lasers & not just boat one weapon type.

Design the quirks to encourage builds that are diverse e.g. use multiple weapon types. Exceptions apply for specific niche mechs e.g. HBK 4P/4SP, Nova etc..

Edited by White Bear 84, 20 April 2015 - 05:49 PM.


#32 SpiralFace

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Devoted
  • The Devoted
  • 1,151 posts
  • LocationAlshain

Posted 20 April 2015 - 07:21 PM

I think that the best quirks are the ones that make up for natural deficiency in the frame to bring it on a level with other mechs in its role / weight class.

Here is a list of "mech traits" that should be considered while providing quirks on a frame:

- Mech geometry (both scale, and how easy it is to target individual components on a mech from multiple angles.)
- Mech hitboxes
- Low slung - High slung weapon hard points
- WEAPON CONVERGENCE (something I feel isn't given enough attention in the assignment of quirks.)
- Number of hard points.
- Spam-ability of the weapons being quirked.

I feel the AWS 9S Awesome is a well quirked mech. (If maybe a bit under quirked.)

It has bad geometry and scale (so it gets armor + structure hard points to compensate for that.)
It has bad hard point placement (both under slung weapons, and hard-points spread out across the entire frame not centered in any single location.)
It can spam ER PPC's to take advantage of the massive offensive quirks, but because of hard point layout and space, it must have the weapons spread out across the body (and therefore must deal with bad convergence of the weapons that naturally offsets the offensive quirks it receives)

I feel that many of the mechs in the game that have massive quirks are probably not the best suited for them because they are not "terrible" compared to other frames.

The Dragon 1N is one that I feel is on the right path, but one I feel is not the correct candidate for the severity of the offensive AC 5 quirks it gets.

While its true that the Dragon 1N suffers from bad hitboxes, low slung weapons and bad arm geometry, it also has perfect convergence on the spamability of the balistic slots.

The Quickdraw IV 4 on the other hand suffers from ALL the problems that the Dragon suffers from PLUS poor weapon convergence given how wide appart those ballistic hard point mounts are.

But despite the fact that it has worse hardpoint placement, it actually has LESS physical offensive quirks then the dragon 1N at only a 40% AC5 cooldown while the Dragon 1N has a 50% cooldown (despite the better hardpoint placement.)

Its over-sites like this that I feel have to be smoothed up. For the most part, there are many quirks that I feel are well placed on the mechs, but could be better tuned to help those mechs that suffer from more problems then other frames.

As long as the quirks don't do the following, I'm fine with them (see what I don't like about quirks for more details into this.):

- Quirks that do nothing more then promote single weapon spam builds
- Massive offensive quirks on mechs with very little inherited frame drawbacks.
- Weapons that are only worth taking if they have ungodly amounts of quirks associated with them.
- Heavily overcompensate for natural weapon drawbacks.

Edited by SpiralFace, 20 April 2015 - 07:22 PM.


#33 Reno Blade

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Blade
  • The Blade
  • 3,456 posts
  • LocationGermany

Posted 20 April 2015 - 10:25 PM

Anything that goes to/above 30% bonus (combined weapony class quirk and weapon quirk) makes a mech feel special and strong.
The Awesome 8Q is very nice PPC platform now and I got it back in action again.

Shooting your main weapon noticable faster is just a great feeling.
It's even better if you can only mount one and there is no boating that makes a mech totally OP.
The Hunchbacks come to mind. e.g. The Grid Iron has 50% combined for the Gauss Rifle.
It's fun shooting that Gauss nearly every second.
You can barely pack 2 MPulse lasers and a decent standard engine in it to make it viable, so it's balanced.

Or the Dragon 1N with the super fast dual AC5. It's very fun and you can now fear a Dragon on the enemy team.

But on the other hand I fear that any quirk (cooldown, range, heat) above 30% or 40% is too strong and makes certain variants just the "best" for certain weapon types.
Maybe instead of 25% ballistic cooldown + 25% weapon cooldown it could be: 25% ballistic cooldown + 12,5% weapon cooldown
(changing a 1:1 ratio to a 2:1 ratio )

Edited by Reno Blade, 20 April 2015 - 10:25 PM.


#34 Kmieciu

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Urban Commando
  • Urban Commando
  • 3,437 posts
  • LocationPoland

Posted 20 April 2015 - 11:31 PM

View PostTina Benoit, on 20 April 2015 - 10:12 AM, said:

Hello MechWarriors!

Those of you who listened to the Town Hall on April 16th may remember the discussions regarding the Quirks!

This thread is to hear out your feedback regarding your most favorite Quirks, the ones you don't want to change!


Hunchback and Centurion quirks are very well done. They make each variant unique and worth buying. They make players want to own them all.

Blackjack BJ-1 and BJ-1DC quirks are bad. Because AC2 is a poor poor weapon against players that can torso twist therefore both variants became useless. BJ-1DC was great back when it had AC5 quirks.

Trebuchet quirks are not enough to make it a competitive mech. It needs more durability.

Commando needs more quirks as well. It is currently less deadly than a Locust.

#35 Lily from animove

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Devoted
  • The Devoted
  • 13,891 posts
  • LocationOn a dropship to Terra

Posted 20 April 2015 - 11:57 PM

Sry Tina but what question is that?

Quirks should not be a matter of "like" they should be a matter of "sense".
heat generation quirks are cool, but not every mech actually needs them to a specific degree.

A better question would be:

what quirks do you consider pointless.

like ams ranges and firerates.
like MG range
like some pitch rates and stuff.

those are very minor to other quirks

Then there are very situational quirks, like laser cooldown, on mechs with 6 lasers, that quirk is nonsense. On mechs with only a few E hardpoints, this makes sense.

then there are plain out good quirks:

heat generation
Armor, structure points.
Acceleration, decceleration.

But aksing the community which quirks they like, well. Thats not how balance will come, thats how things may get very wrong. What a mech needs may not be what people want.

#36 Elizander

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 7,540 posts
  • LocationPhilippines

Posted 21 April 2015 - 01:07 AM

1) Heat reduction

2) Cooldown reduction

3) Range increase

All those three, if tuned right can allow for some good builds if the weapons sync up properly with range/CDs and enough heat reduction to make the build work.

You can further promote build diversity by adding in more complicated quirks such as:

Powerlink Medium Laser -> SRM4

Description: SRM4 generates 20% less heat if fired a few seconds after firing a Medium Laser. Firing SRM4 reduces Medium Laser cooldown by 12.5%

That's a rough description, but the point is you can add this kind of semi-complicated quirk system to buff up 3-5 weapon system builds without allowing them to boat with massive quirk bonuses.

If you also dislike boating quirks that are unintentional, you can put a weapon limit on quirks. Say a mech has 30% energy heat dissipation for Large Lasers placed in the arm energy hard points. You can still use more LL but only the ones placed in specific hard points get the bonus.

#37 Saint Atlas and the Commando Elf

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Knight Errant
  • Knight Errant
  • 595 posts

Posted 21 April 2015 - 01:35 AM

1) PPC Quirks on AWS-8Q
2) Quirk package of the BJ-1
3) Combination of reduced laser duration and increased acceleration (poking with the Locust 1E!)

#38 Twilight Fenrir

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The God
  • The God
  • 1,441 posts

Posted 21 April 2015 - 04:29 AM

Hugin n.n

I don't really build for quirks 80% of the time, but I swapped my Hugin to SRM4s and that thing is a blast! :D Please don't nerf that XD Anything else is fine.

#39 The Great Unwashed

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Giant Helper
  • Giant Helper
  • 919 posts
  • LocationNetherlands

Posted 21 April 2015 - 05:17 AM

I prefer the armor, structure and movement quirks because they make sense. I do not understand why a Gauss rifle suddenly reloads twice as fast when it is in a Grid Iron, why the shell fired from an AC goes faster when mounted on a Dragon, and why some lasers fire further in a Stalker. How does the weapon know?

I understand that an arm with 1B slot might give a better reload than an arm with 2B slots because it has some better ammo supply or somesuch McGuffin reason, why some slots have better integrated cooling or better recharge with better power mains and so forth to reduce the Guass charge or energy cooling. But when a quirk is well over 10% then I image what idiot (in the MWO universe that is) designed a mech that does not take that advantage into account. I understand no ghost heat for 3 ERPPCs for the Awesome because it was built around these weapons and a light mech was not. And so forth.

So basically, I dislike some quirks for the same reason I dislike Ghost heat; it is an ad-hoc mechanism that does not make sense and is for some reason trying to patch up a problem that very well might have been solved differently.

Edited by The Great Unwashed, 21 April 2015 - 05:20 AM.


#40 Monky

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Shredder
  • Shredder
  • 3,219 posts
  • LocationHypothetical Warrior

Posted 21 April 2015 - 05:36 AM

Reposting here since my writeup was all-encompasing

Here is my tiering of least to most favorite:

Least favorite:

SRM/LRM range. LRMs are already near useless at the end-envelope (past 800 meters) because few targets at serious levels of play stay locked that long. By the time the missiles arrive, the target is dead or has dropped behind cover. SRMs move too slowly to accurately shoot beyond 175 or so with any real predictability, and with their ammo limitations risking wasted shots is a fool's choice. Only useful if your enemy is charging right at you, sitting still, shut down, or making some other dumb mistake.

Ballistic range. Ballistics are accurate to their crosshair, but the crosshair is calibrated for specific ranges (and even then barely - check out this video to see why: http://www.twitch.tv...monky/c/6482367 ). If you're upping the max range, you're messing with the point of impact and not adjusting the crosshair. If you can come up with a way to overcome this, I'm fine with it, but as is it is poor at best. The exceptions to this are PPC (I know, handled by its own quirk) and Gauss max range as they are unaffected by gravity, so the crosshair stays relevant for point of impact. Machineguns get a little bit of benefit from this as well, but their CONE OF FIRE is ridiculous at any extended ranges, making it basically throwing ammo away even if you're getting full damage per shot.

Beam duration reduction. This is a powerful quirk, but we already have beam duration differences between pulse and normal lasers. Further, due to being percentage based, normal and ER laser reap a much larger actual benefit. For example, an IS large pulse has 0.67 beam duration and an IS large laser has 1.00 duration. Subtract 50% from those numbers and the difference between the two shrinks from .33 seconds to .17, making the Large Pulse comparitively worse. If you're going to do beam duration reduction it needs to be a flat milisecond reduction, not a percentage, or you're making wonky balance issues where pulses are no longer valid choices.

Projectile speed. In addition to messing with point of impact on gravity affected projectiles (like covered under ballistic range) this quirk's poor application is highlighted by mechs which have had to recieve ENORMOUS PPC speed quirks to make using PPC's even remotely viable. If you have to use quirks like this to even get the weapon on the field in a serious environment the problem is with the weapon as a whole. The solution here is don't apply this to gravity affected ballistics, and up PPC overall speed, limiting its application to Gauss rifles realistically.

LBX Spread quirks - Same issue as mentioned before - quirking into viability. If LBX aren't useful MAKE THEM USEFUL don't try and make a few edge cases with quirks. Put on your balancer pants and for once in the 3-4 years MWO has existed and make the LBX work! Not trying to be negative here but they have NEVER been viable in the history of MWO! Get on it, WITHOUT quirks as a crutch! Some helpful tips: Look at SRMs and what they do: SRMs have the same basic functionality, but accomplish it in a way that works: Good weight to power ratio! LBX are heavy, in order to be viable they need more power. Bring in the spread -some- so you can hit all shots on a light mech (for isnstance locust) at the max range and then up the power of each projectile.

NARC Quirks - Narcs are useless because they are poorly implemented overall, same as LBX. FIX THE NARCS!

So those are the main offenders.

Quirks which could use improvement in how they are applied:

Heat generation - This is a handy quirk, but it needs to be applied pretty heavily to light mechs. Lights have the least cooling potential in the game due to limited weight and space (as they often require XL, Endo, and Ferro upgrades along with DHS to be viable). This means they can't really pack in heatsinks. To make matters worse, a lot of lights can't get up to an XL 250 meaning they HAVE to spend precious remaining space on heatsinks. As you can probably tell, this means at some point you have to make your mech less effective just to fit the heatsinks required to run in, and lights are already the least effective weight class pound for pound. Further, if you're on an energy hardpoint heavy light, there is simply no way to fill all the slots and make use of them since you'll be so far past your heat cap. The FS9-A is a good example of these quirks being properly applied, an example of poor application would be the JR7-F, which relies on 6 energy hardpoints but can't even remotely keep up due to being outcooled by other quirked lights. The FS9-S runs 5-6 medium pulses, but runs it so much cooler, you'd be screwing yourself by taking the Jenner which doesn't have any other options!

Beam range - Not the right name but basically energy beam weapon range. This quirk is great for three things: Making inner sphere pulse lasers and small useable (a problem related to IS pulse and small laser design! shouldn't have to be quirked to accomplish!) Making IS medium lasers reach out as far as Clan ER Mediums (which is a valid application because you'd have to pack larges otherwise, 5x the weight, not viable), and making IS ER Larges reach as far as clan ER Larges (also valid to allow clans and IS to trade fire on long range positions without having to have everyone in IS use Gauss rifles exclusively). So, overall, beam range is good, but inner sphere small and pulse lasers need to be overhauled rather than quirked into viability with it.

SRM/LRM Velocity/Spread. Lumping these together - I don't like SRM velocity because using SRMs relies on timing the flight vs your enemies moves, adjusting that to be different on mechs makes it HARDER to use SRMs in a fight, but it isn't the worst thing in the world If you want to do that, make it for SRM's overall. LRM speed quirks, hey that's alright, LRMs already take so long to hit you're basically not going to hit anyone who hadn't already given up on life and wandered into the open in front of the enemy without ECM. As far as spread I think it has some merit, but needs to be sizeable to have any real impact. 5% spread reduction is almost nothing and that's what we're looking at right now. 15% might be a meaningful impact that could make some changes in how some mech's missile hardpoints are looked at.

Energy/Missile cooldown. These quirks are great overall, but on mechs where the cooling potential is low they need to be paired with decent cooling quirks, simple as that. Firing faster just means overheating faster for some mechs as it is.

Quirks that are great:

Agility quirks - in order of importance: Accel/Decel, turn rate, yaw/pitch degree, yaw/pitch speed. Accel/Decel lets mechs poke, an all important aspect of mech warfare. Turn rate allows mechs to manuever into positions or brawl, important overall and for when your enemy has closed on you to counter your poking. Yaw/pitch degree is important because it establishes what fields of fire you can actually put down with torso weapons. yaw/pitch speed is somewhat important because it assists with shielding and getting weapons on targets rapidly. Please don't bother with arm quirks aside from possible degree of movement which would be weak on a mech where most/all firepower isn't in the arms anyways, speed is a pointless arm quirk.

Ultra AC Jam chance - I like it. It works, it boosts DPS without giving a hard buff, and it doesn't make the jam mechanic invalid. Kudos!

Ballistic Cooldown - Since ballistics are (relatively) cool running, this quirk is exceptionally powerful in defining the role of a mech. A great example is the Grid Iron which went from worthless to competitive with simply increasing Gauss reload by 50%. A simple, powerful quirk that can stand alone. A minor issue with it is that you can end up over-pidgeonholing mechs by putting specific ballistic quirks that are very powerful, and general ballistic quirks that are weak by comparison. Consider doing different ratios than 2/1 (50% gauss cooldown/25% ballistic cooldown for instance could be 50% Gauss cooldown/35% ballistic cooldown).





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users