33 replies to this topic

[grendeldog]

Hi there. So I'm not new so much anymore, but I'm new to this mech, and I know this forum is a lot more active than the heavy mech forum, as well as being full of people that genuinely want to help other players out.

So I can pilot other mechs fine - I do best in mediums, with my record for damage being ~1300 in the SCR-C stock build. I've gotten quite a few four or five kill games in the HBK-4P and SCRs prime and -C. I can even rack up kills in heavy mechs - though my heavy damage record is sub-1000, I have killed seven mechs and singlehandely won an assault match in my 8 MPL GHR-4N and got the creeping death achievement in my GHR-4H. I even did okay when I had to lurm-boat the SCR-D to master my Stormcrows.

Heck, I can even do well with a few kills per game in the stock Nova prime.

But I just suck soooo hard with the Timber. Like, not even breaking 100 damage in the worst rounds, barely surpassing 400 in my better rounds sucking. It's slow, fat, impossibly hot, squishy, and ineffective even with direct fire weapons in my hands (emphasis on in my hands - I know it is a powerful mech). Something tells me that there's just a fundamental disconnect between how I am playing and how the Timber needs to be played.

I know that pilots won't necessarily do well in every mech, and that some people just are terrible in an assault or heavy, yet can slaughter in a light, or vice versa. And I do acknowledge that I work better in mediums than heavies, for sure, though I've been running mediums since day one whereas I've only picked up heavies in the last week or two. But I find it hard to believe that my 'can't do it' mech turns out to be arguably the best chassis in the game, and definitely in the top 3 or 4.

So instead of trying to get specific details from folks of what I do wrong and do right, would you instead suggest to me a playstyle that you feel best fits the Timber, and perhaps point out a few pitfalls as far as when to be aggressive and when to back off? Or perhaps suggest a method of play or a few rules of thumb that will allow me to get more practice with the TBR without totally letting my team down as I am doing now?

That is what frustrates me most - for a game where I try and get better with the chassis, my team is effectively down not just a heavy, but one of the best heavies in the game in the right hands! And I know it's just pugging, but dang, I don't want to be the weak link like that just to satisfy my desire to try and play this mech.

I have yet to try out any builds besides stock, but I doubt that is the entire answer - or even part of the answer - because I have spe gated plenty of people who do just fine in stock Timbers.

Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated, and if you think it would be helpful for me to detail how, where, and why I keep dying, I would gladly play a few rounds and keep track of that info so I could report back. Thanks guys.

[Leone]

So, the thing about the Timberwolf is it has tonnage, armour and speed. What it doesn't have are enough energy hardpoints for what I want, so I've had to try to make mine effective, but found them wanting as well. (I drop CW alot, and I use the Timberwolf just cuz I have the tonnage but I often feel like it's inferior to the Nova and often consider wasting the tonnage and replacing it.)

What I've found is the Timberwolf excels for me in ranged combat. Lrms, Large Lasers, Gauss. Stuff I'm not as good at. But it has enough armour to trade, and enough movement to be where you need to be, stuff alot of people like. So I have a decent enough Guass, 2x Large Pulse build, which does okay for me, but the playstyle isn't one I work with as well. Might be more your thing, who knows. I've tried a brawling build of Medium Pulse and Srm 6's, but it doesn't feel much more powerful than my brawling Shadowhawk. It just moves faster and has more armour.

But those are good things, I just need to figure out how to make them work for me better since I got used to having to play with a speed handicap due to my habit of ripping out engines in my IS mechs.

~Leone, Raid Leader of the Crimson Hand.

Edited by Leone, 20 April 2015 - 07:52 PM.

[grendeldog]

Yeah, see I find it slow and under-armored... but I think I just mean slow, because of you have speed you can get way with less armor. I expect I will appreciate it a lot more when I have mastered the chassis and have double basic torso twist, twist range, heat cap and dissipation, and speed tweak.

I just don't want to be taking a dump on my teams in pug matches because I suck at Timber whilst trying to get to that mastered level. Not to mention mastering it is a lot harder when you suck at it and get very little XP!

[Appogee]

The other Mechs which you have been successful in seem very min-maxed... Stormcrow has broken hitboxes and inexperienced players find them hard to kill. 8 MPL GHR-4N is the definition of min-maxed. Lurm-boating is easy mode at low to mid Elo competition levels. They also fly under the radar a bit as inexperienced players won't know how powerful they are.

Timby on the other hand is a very versatile platform, with many different loadout options, good speed and JJs, good armor. But it also stands out as a priority target for most incoming fire. And it's entirely possible to load it out badly, with poor heat, DPS etc.

So I feel like you've been a little 'spoiled' perhaps in the Mechs you're used to. You're going to have to firstly find the sweet spot in loadouts on the Timby - plenty of sites contain effective loadouts - and also be more cautious/selective in the way you're using it. That would include using more cover, giving yourself time to select shots and manage your heat etc, and not yoloing away from the pack when you don't have the same speed and options as a fast high alpha Medium.

Timby is still the best Heavy in the game.

[Questia]

Hey there grendeldog! To be honest, it's not just you who's struggling with Timber Wolves, so don't fret too much about not doing well with the "Timbergod" as they call it. It's all about experience.

I've been there before, believe me. That thread is pretty much a chronicle of what the people here have to say about having bad games with the Timber Wolf. I can't do you a service by summarizing the TBR's faults, since the people above me and in the thread have said most of what I'm about to say, but trust me when I say it's a matter of getting used to it.

Here's one thing that still holds true, though: it's the pilot that makes the mech good, not the other way around. If you can't make the TBR work even after about a hundred games in it, maybe its style is not for you. Does that make you a bad pilot? Not necessarily. Maybe you're better off in your mediums after all. But still, keep practicing, experimenting, You didn't start off as an awesome pilot in the mediums - you worked hard for that skill. Same goes for any mech, good or bad.

In the end, though, what do you find fun? If you're not having fun in the Timber Wolf, then try something else with it. One thing I'll say, though: the stock builds on the TBR are bad - best change them before going further.

[grendeldog]

You know, that's a really good point about min/maxing. I have never really thought of myself as a meta sort of pilot, but the 4P(C) is basically almost at it's peak when stock, the SCR prime is also pretty good stock, and the 8 MPL GHR-4N is super min/maxed. I didn't try going there on purpose so much as I moved from the stock build to half MPL / half ML, then all MPL with ERLL, then all MPL. It's a hit or miss thing - seven kills one game, none the next. But the 4H I designed is also pretty meta now that I think about it. It's XL330, 2 LPL, 1 LL, 4 ML - a sort of IS pseudo-laservomit.

I think I associate Timbers with an over-excitement about min/maxing and aligning with the meta, and with players who are about winning only with no regard for 'fun', and so I tried to avoid going straight to laservomit builds because that's not a playstyle that I particularly with to emulate. But it does seem the stock builds have a lot of stuff going on without a ton of focus, so I ought to seek a middle-ground between the two.

I also wonder whether heavies need the customization more than the mediums - the GHR stock builds are just awful, undergunned and abominably slow. Likewise you mention the stock builds on the Timber being not that great, and I agree. Perhaps because of the reduced tonmage on mediums, the 'possibility space' for builds is smaller, so you're more likely to have a workable build with stock or near-stock, whereas with the increased tonnage in the heavies, there is a greater number of possible builds, and therefor a greater number of possible less-effective builds. And if there were ever a mech with a grab-bag of slightly mismatched hardpoints it is the Timber - five weapon groups isn't really my bag, I very much prefer limiting it to three or four because despite having a 'gaming mouse' - Corsair M65 - the select target 'R key' function and to some extent the zoom function are more important to me than that fifth weapon button.

I think I'll switch up my omnipods tomorrow and focus each variant on something specific - brawl-ish, fire support, dakka, sniper. As for fun, I don't see any reason to force it if I just don't gel with the mech. Just as it's good to switch to a different chassis when you get on a losing streak, it is important not to waste your time trying to make something fit that isn't natural. I have fun when the team does well whether or not I live through the match, and I have fun when we lose but it was a close, hard-fought battle. Getting roflstomped isn't so much fun though.

[Lily from animove]

Hard to tell, play 100 games and avoid the mistakes you make, it will give you a better feeling for the mech, especially when and where your lower slung arms will be able to hit stuff.
Getting used to a mech is needed a lot. because every mech has its own behavior and places on the maps. Even if you are in the same place the mechs "optimal" behavior differs, by how much to expose to be able to fire, how much to not expose too much.

about heat, well yes it's like 2 alphas, then cooldown. and if you still have to fire, rely on the 2 LPL (if you make the usual 2LPL 2 CERML build)

[The Basilisk]

What Apogee said...but with MUCH MORE emphasis to BROKEN HITBOXES and MINMAXED
No realy the mechs you've piloted so far are either seriously bugged ( StormCrow ) or by design uber meta friendly to a degree they are in for a crippling nerf. ( I still remember the Dragonslayer before and after the planetkiller sized nerf bomb hit )
You are doing yourself a favor learning to pilot a mech thats a bit more balanced. Even if the TBR is still a superior design in comparision to all to many other mechs around.

[Koniving]

grendeldog, on 20 April 2015 - 10:16 PM, said:

Yeah, see I find it slow and under-armored... but I think I just mean slow, because of you have speed you can get way with less armor. I expect I will appreciate it a lot more when I have mastered the chassis and have double basic torso twist, twist range, heat cap and dissipation, and speed tweak.

I just don't want to be taking a dump on my teams in pug matches because I suck at Timber whilst trying to get to that mastered level. Not to mention mastering it is a lot harder when you suck at it and get very little XP!

What's your armor allocation?
If it's not CT 90 front, 2 rear, LT/RT 62 front, 2 rear... then you've done something horribly wrong.

The front torsos, especially the side torsos, are as large as the original center torso of the Awesome. Basically you can be on the planet that River City orbits and still hit the side of a timber wolf.

What makes it so great then?

MOAR ARMOR!
And less silly things to worry about like "will that hit to my side do rear damage?" Pfft, what the heck is a rear torso but a flat panel that no one will ever be able to touch?

The same technique is used in this Hunchback to make it survive an XL engine BEFORE QUIRKS!

First time it was ever used.


The 2 rear armor, all else to the front is the evolution of this design.


The trick also works on Jenners, Firestarters, Vindicators, Dragons (CT only) and anything with ~HUGE~ front torso hitboxes with disproportionally microscopic rear torsos.

[Rogue Jedi]

the Timber Wolf is a great Mech but you need to find a loadout which works for you, here are my favorites and how I use them, but just because they work well for me they may not for you.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...359d69f7c622a1a
this was intended as a joke loadout for the C, I took it out for my first ever TBR game, and had what was at the time my best ever match, use the LB5 and the ERLL as your long range fire group, stay with the bulk of your group until your team starts to close.
when you close in the SRMs and MPLs are very effective, and you are cool enough to Alpha Strike if you want to. the most important thing is to not rush the enemy alone.


http://mwo.smurfy-ne...19cd67b1505fb54
this is closer to the traditional TBR build, chain fire the LRM 15s with direct line of sight, stay with your group but towards the rear, when a few enemies have been opened up close in and the MPLs and MGs will make short work of any open components on enemy Mechs.

in both of those Mechs I average better than 300 damage per match with quite a few 800+ damage and 2-4 kill matches

[Banditman]

The Timber is the mech with the greatest combination of speed, armor and firepower in the Heavy class. Bar none. The real problem with piloting one is that everyone else knows that and deals with it appropriately, which is to say, they will kill a Timber on sight above nearly any other mech.

[TheStrider]

When struggling with any chassis, always consider using builds others rely upon. At least try them to see if they work for you.

Check out Metamechs or MechSpecs for ideas.

http://metamechs.com...des/timberwolf/
https://www.mechspec...imber-wolf.268/

The 3 builds I'm using now are fairly standard TBR meta: 2LPL/4ERML, 4ERLL, 1LPL / 5MPL. I'm going to try the 2UAC5/3ERML again, as it wasn't working for me before I had Elite, but is right up my alley for play style.

As with many mechs, while pugging hold back and play range if you can. The TBR excels at ranged combat. Of course, if you see your assaults pushing, you should move with them to support / draw fire / use them as shield walls as the situation calls.

[Kin3ticX]

If you are trying to up your game, stay away from snowflaky high-mix builds that try to do everything at every range. They wind up trying to do everything but nothing well. LRMs are not the way to go because there is just so much ECM and other factors that prevent them from working consistently. Simple direct fire mixes are the way to go. If you want to use LRMs, just go to town with them, dont try to mix it up. It just so happens the TBR-D is coming out today, so you should be able to fit LRMs and 4xERML + a Tag on that better then it would fit on the S.

Metamechs.com is good, I also have some builds here for the TBR

https://docs.google....4f32fbbd0_11347

and here

https://docs.google....g3532a8eb7_2624

Edited by Kin3ticX, 21 April 2015 - 05:49 AM.

[That Dawg]

Rogue Jedi, on 21 April 2015 - 02:08 AM, said:

the Timber Wolf is a great Mech but you need to find a loadout which works for you

period.
cut, print, wrap
grendeldog, I'd strongly suggest looking at what builds DO work for you in your current mechs, and mimic those in the timberdoodle.
I sucked eggs at what evvvvvvvvvvvvveryone told me would be thee 1000 damage, death star build, after reading all about the timbergods I thought, sheeut, all I need to do is buy one and hear the lamenting of their women after crushing them in front of me...
My builds now, stunning. Cbill earning, stat increasing, and nothing meta, more like a heavy version of stormcrows and griffons and shadowhawks than what the "best" builds I could find were...
its a great mech along with a dozen other GREAT mechs.

make it fit you, dont try to force fit yourself into it.

[Modo44]

You go out in the toughest, meanest mech on the battlefield bar none. People will try to kill you quickly. Even in solo matches with their usual lack of coordination, you are the primary target. Always. So, your piloting must be top notch, and your build must be optimized, or bring lube. This is why we do not recommend the Timber Wolf to new players.

[Grom181]

It may just be that the Timber Wolf is not for you. However, everyone here has been right. Anything that can put a hurting on the enemy team, and can be taken out early by them is going to be targeted, ie Timber Wolf, Atlas, Dire Wolf. LRM monsters, ect. You could possibly have a Timber Wolf run around with nothing more than a C-ERSML (in a PUG drop), and people would kill you first from simple fear. (Kinda want to try that now...) I've been piloting the Timbers since they came out, and tried many builds. By no means are these things really something to fear, especially when compared to a Storm Crow packing heat out the wahzoo.

As has been stated, build it for a specific role. My TBR-Prime is pretty much stock, save it has a TC3 (I think) in it. I play that thing like a hunter because it has the ability to hit at long range, and dish out some pain if things get close. However, I do need to watch my heat which means I can't fire as much as I would like. I haven't tried a brawler build on a Timber (I'm a little special and use long range weapons for this for some reason), but I would try playing it with the intent of ambushing the enemy. Let them come to you, get beat up, then you pop out from around the corner, and they drop a nice urbie sized duce in the cockpit.

[Macksheen]

There are some mechs I'm good in, and some in which I just suck.

I don't bother trying to figure it out anymore and just know that while I can do very well in some, the mysteries of the Cataphract is lost on me.

[grendeldog]

Some good advice all around. I spent some time thinking about how I have died, and concluded that while I definitely expect the focus fire, I think my torso-twisting on the timber is subpar. With mediums and even the GHR, the torso twist is faster. So while I can take the time to get all my las onto the target in the GHR, with the Timber I need to be planning to twist ahead of even finishing the burn.

Second, I don't really dig LRMs. If you boat they are definitely effective, but I don't like having to take a mech down to 20 or 30 percent health to kill it, which LRMs do, and ECM makes it very situational (as many of you have mentioned).

I also clearly have a love affair with las - HBK-4P, SCR prime and C, GHR every variant - these are all las boats. So I went ahead and put together a 4 ERML, 2 LPL vomit boat using the Prime with the S right torso for jets and E hardpoint. It also has 2 MGs for when I need to bug out or throw a lucky few crits onto exposed bits. First game so far I got 225 damage - lousy for sure, but not as bad as when I used the stock Prime.

The game wasn't great either - we had a disconnect, nobody pushed, and we had some players get into an argument over text and voice comms. I ended up dying near one of the ramps to the middle area of HPG (not the top platform, but the raised area it sits on) when I tried to push and everybody else ran and hid. I definitely used cover more effectively though, but I need to get better at staying at range since I have an ERML range module with my radar derp, and need to keep enemies to the front since I loaded up on front CT armor as suggested.

Next game I got 537 damage. No kills and only four assists, but I am trying to keep to one target at a time and play more conservatively, so I consider this match to have been much more successful than the last. Unfortunately I was in a mixed lance a minute or two before the end when the enemy made a serious push with a Crab at the front. The lance got slaughtered, and I took crabby down to half armor with some jump-jetting and judicious use of cover. His faster homeboys got behind me though, and no mech can go 1 vs 5 and live.

I also have the basics on the Prime almost finished out, so I will have that slight bit more of maneuverability.

Cheers guys and thanks for the help! I'll keep at this and come back and post how it's going, and ask some more questions if / when I think of them.

Edited by grendeldog, 21 April 2015 - 12:45 PM.

[Catra Lanis]

This is mine, somebody will say it's an insane build but I'm big on symmetry and I do reasonable well with it.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8ebe00c44c275e6

[Modo44]

LRMs are definitely wasted on a TW. You take lasers+moar lasers, lasers+Gauss, or lasers+SRMs. You are not required to fill all hardpoints, so do not -- you must have enough cooling to actually use your stuff.