93 replies to this topic

[Soy]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 22 April 2015 - 07:22 AM, said:

I have this and can do this O.o Am I lucky?



thats what trolls DO

You're cool as a cucumber. And yeah probably lucky too, you, like rest of us, have luxury to sit here and play stupid game unlike a lot of ppl in this world.

/derailed own thread gg

[Almond Brown]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 22 April 2015 - 07:22 AM, said:

stuff (for another time)

that's what trolls DO

Sadly Trolls have friends, who also have friends. Next thing you know, those Trolls pair up into many 2-man pairs and start Sync dropping until there can be as many as 6 x 2 Troll pairs on a Team, all Trolling the Battlefield together. But fear not. Jimmy and his NEWB friends 2-Man will surely enjoy those matches together... as they will be way better than now...

Edited by Almond Brown, 22 April 2015 - 09:15 AM.

[Soy]

Almond Brown, on 22 April 2015 - 09:14 AM, said:

Jimmy and his NEWB friends 2-Man will surely enjoy those matches together...

The PPC is aggressive.

[Deathlike]

What we may end up needing is an intermediate/casual queue.

Three queues...
1) Solo queue - leave as is
2) Group queue - leave as is - possibly offer C-bill boost here due to the nature of the queue (10% minimum bonus)
3) Casual queue - 1-4 mans (similar to the crappier days when that was the ONLY queue)

I'm not sure how exactly it would be implemented, but the point of the queue is for people to experiment (trying new builds)... play with teammates that are new. It shouldn't be affected by Elo (easier to deal with on an MM level) and should be the in-between option for solo and group... where 2-4 mans get screwed.

The way to detect this is through Elo, as through the account you should be able to determine the # of matches a player has by group construction.

I believe the idea could be refined, but that's the best I can come up with at this time.

[Suko]

Xetelian, on 21 April 2015 - 04:40 PM, said:

Group queue is punishment for 2 mans.

Which is why I'm for putting 2mans in the solo queue, just like League of Legends does.

2 guys can wreck together but they hardly make any more difference than just 1 good player.

I forever alone since no one I know wants to play group queue with 2.

Agreed. Now with VOIP built into MWO, a 2-man group doesn't have the sway power it once used to in the solo queue. Limit it to ONE 2-man team per side in Solo play and I can't see this ever being an issue at all. Perhaps this just causes "Bucket Trouble" that Russ is always talking about?

[Kristov Kerensky]

I've wondered about this subject a few times and I'm still somewhat mystified by it.

I'm used to playing online games where there is no hand holding, there is no handicapping, and there is no newb friendly anything except maybe some of the players. Not MMOs mind you, but other online PvP style games like Battlefield 1942/Vietnam/2, Tribes and Tribes 2, Quake and Unreal games, MW2-4, those sort of online PvP games.

You get in the game, get on a server and you get what you get. New players usually get schooled fast and hard and either man up and learn how to play OR they quit. This was for games you'd already put out $50-60 bucks for just to play in the first place, so if you didn't stick to the online, you better hope the single player, IF it had one, was good. Tribes for example, no single player, it was an online only game, and it had that same learning curve that EVE has in that graph, love that btw.

So I guess I have a hard time understanding how new players can't deal because my own experience was not one of having my hand held and being coddled and hugged and getting participation trophies.

Either you are interested in the game and stick it out or you aren't interested and don't, if you need your hand held to BE interested, guess what cupcake, you ain't interested, don't waste anyone's time.

[TLBFestus]

DaZur, on 21 April 2015 - 09:02 PM, said:

No?

You must have posted while I was posting.......

Still my point is valid.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Deathlike, on 22 April 2015 - 10:52 AM, said:

What we may end up needing is an intermediate/casual queue.
1) Solo queue - leave as is
2) Group queue - leave as is - possibly offer C-bill boost here due to the nature of the queue (10% minimum bonus)
3) Casual queue - 1-4 mans (similar to the crappier days when that was the ONLY queue)
I believe the idea could be refined, but that's the best I can come up with at this time.

If PGI adds another "Bucket" (as russ likes to call them), and it is not a Stock Mech "bucket", there will be hell to pay. Although a stock mech/small group queue would be acceptable, as a stock mech queue is the prefect learning ground for the New c-bill poor player.

Edited by Agent 0 Fortune, 22 April 2015 - 03:11 PM.

[Impyrium]

My problem is that out of the three or four people I've tried to bring to play the damn game, none of gotten further than signing up and installing. Why? Because what am I supposed to tell them?

"Right, you're about to stomp around in giant robots! Except you don't start with any, you have to use these trial 'mechs. And they're kind of terrible and out of date. You can't change them at all. Also we can't play together unless we drop into the group queue which is a meat grinder. And we can't do private matches together because you haven't paid money."

That's enough to scare anyone away. A tutorial won't cut it for new player experiences, a new player needs some way to get used to the game that doesn't involve them jumping into the deep end or paying money.

[Telmasa]

Two points:
- better game balance makes it easier on noobs, to an extent, so there's that selling point for "Balance, Balance, Balance"
- What if 2-4 man groups were merged into the solo qeue bucket, rather than creating a third bucket?

If we are stuck with 12 v 12 mode forever, then I don't see 2-4 man groups as being too overwhelming.

And if the ELO of those groups was the calculated average of the players in that group, it shouldn't be a big issue for MM.
(As in: it counts the players, one-two-three players let's say; then it calculates the average ELO, then looks at the three players as though they all now have that average ELO, and pushes them through the solo qeue that way, otherwise no different from solo players, merely with the exception of keeping them all on the same team.)

Better yet would be if we just went back to 8v8, and 2-man groups could get into solo qeue (maybe 3-mans, even). But that's more of a pipe dream nowadays....

Edited by Telmasa, 22 April 2015 - 04:09 PM.

[Deathlike]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 22 April 2015 - 03:09 PM, said:

If PGI adds another "Bucket" (as russ likes to call them), and it is not a Stock Mech "bucket", there will be hell to pay. Although a stock mech/small group queue would be acceptable, as a stock mech queue is the prefect learning ground for the New c-bill poor player.

Well, I don't that many people would subscribe to them at this point (people who asked that have kinda diminished in number), but it's the easiest way to getting through the NPE indirectly. Sure good players would use/abuse the best stock variants (Stormcrow-Prime), but it would level the playing field a bit in many ways.

TTK wouldn't magically lower because of this, but it would slow up the ROF at a better rate for new players to handle.

[Kilo 40]

Kevjack, on 21 April 2015 - 09:05 PM, said:

Make group queue 4 max, move 2 man to solo queue.

Then have pillars of the community harass Russ for months on end, spamming "why can't I play with more than 3 of my friends???" Until Russ reverses his decision then gives said pillars of the community a free cockpit item.

[Romeo Deluxe]

Deathlike, on 22 April 2015 - 10:52 AM, said:

What we may end up needing is an intermediate/casual queue.

Three queues...
1) Solo queue - leave as is
2) Group queue - leave as is - possibly offer C-bill boost here due to the nature of the queue (10% minimum bonus)
3) Casual queue - 1-4 mans (similar to the crappier days when that was the ONLY queue)

I'm not sure how exactly it would be implemented, but the point of the queue is for people to experiment (trying new builds)... play with teammates that are new. It shouldn't be affected by Elo (easier to deal with on an MM level) and should be the in-between option for solo and group... where 2-4 mans get screwed.

The way to detect this is through Elo, as through the account you should be able to determine the # of matches a player has by group construction.

I believe the idea could be refined, but that's the best I can come up with at this time.

I'm afraid I have to down vote this further separation of the player base.

Also, need to keep the 2-man in the solo queue idea narrowly focused on bringing in new people or helping some casuals stay in the game. Don't make it overly complicated. So I think (weighting)averaging the Elo, then applying it to both in the 2-man is the best solution.

However, this is a solution down the list. What they need ASAP is the NPE geared to that completely new person who clicked some ad somewhere and ended up installing the game.

PS maybe the weighted average = total Elo should have a max allowable Elo to even join in the solo queue. PGI will have to tweak this some so it works out for the solo queue.

PPS -

Kilo 40, on 22 April 2015 - 05:26 PM, said:

Then have pillars of the community harass Russ for months on end, spamming "why can't I play with more than 3 of my friends???" Until Russ reverses his decision then gives said pillars of the community a free cockpit item.

Oh yeah, human nature *sigh*.
Give this 2-man unit a speshul name "Cadet Unit" "Training Unit" and a temporary icon for the match leaderboard.

Edited by Romeo Deluxe, 22 April 2015 - 06:41 PM.

[Soy]

Romeo Deluxe, on 22 April 2015 - 06:33 PM, said:

What they need ASAP is the NPE geared to that completely new person who clicked some ad somewhere and ended up installing the game.

Edited by Soy, 22 April 2015 - 06:43 PM.