39 replies to this topic

[Durant Carlyle]

WHAT THE...!?!?

HELL EFFING NO!!!

I cannot believe that I am seeing this kind of thing from experienced light pilots. Y'all sucking in heavier 'Mechs does not justify gimping lights.

Advocates of this notion need to have their heads examined.

[Kalimaster]

As a player who has used light Mechs, I must say that I hate it when I get shot within the first minute of game play and blow up. So lets not reduce the armor. My locusts will thank you. They die enough as it is.

[Banse]

Here is some more data for those who like to crunch. Just pulled it now from my profile and removed chassis with less than 20-ish drops.

By *MY* stats, I would say that the SHD-2D2 (2 x LPL, 4 x SSRM2) is way too strong with a 392.8 DpD. It would be followed by HBK-4SP, VTR-9S, TDR-9SE, TDR-5S... then FS9-S.

Yes lights can be powerful, especially with needing to try and hold a non pinpoint weapon on them so you end up doing way less damage then holding that weapon on a heavy or assault target. On the other hand, lights are not forgiving if you make a mistake. Stop in the wrong area to spot for allies and get one-shot.

Just some data and thoughts, as an actual opinion on this matter is hard to come to as there are way too many variables.

Edited by Banse, 23 April 2015 - 12:51 PM.

[ShaneoftheDead]

So the now that the Cheetah is out, has anyone's opinion changed?

From what I am experiencing, it is yet another confirmation of my point. They are not taking damage, just like the Firestarter. If PGI is incapable of fixing hitboxes on lights then they should slightly reduce their armor. I said "slightly reduce".

[kosmos1214]

another nerf what im bad at fighting thread gg close

[ShaneoftheDead]

kosmos1214, on 25 July 2015 - 02:18 PM, said:

another nerf what im bad at fighting thread gg close

Just because you cannot be bothered to read or think does not mean the problem does not exist. This is one of the more serious problems with the game and I do wish it was addressed. PGI has all but admitted so when they changed the rules for CW to prevent 4 lights in a drop deck and beefed up the turrets. Assaults and Heavies could not even hold ground against them.

[Night Thastus]

ShaneoftheDead, on 21 April 2015 - 09:46 PM, said:

Good questions... Let me check.



Fact! The telling stats are W/L ratio and DpD (average Damage per Drop). DpD is the real indictment, however, because it is largely influenced by survivability. Frequent quick deaths mean a reduction in the average damage you do, despite your weapon loadout. The 30 point spread in DpD is because the Firestarter can last longer in the battle than the Hunchback! The Alpha Strikes of these Mechs are very close, 30 and 35. Both are medium to short range builds. The AC/20 on the 4G being a Crit Machine is the only reason it has a barely higher K/D ratio.

How did you get that "best match" stat? I would LOVE that!

[Not Bob]

I think by best match stat he means the best match he's played in that mech.




Also, Flip Over's stats show that he plays better in mediums than lights, in terms of Damage per Drop. I don't see where this issue is stemming from. Light mechs are very easy to take down if you are patient with your aiming. I would know, I play lights most often. (Followed by assaults, go figure).

You only have to hit through 24 armor (Provided 8 in the back), and a small amount of structure (Either 16 or 8, I forget what the exact internals are) to blow a side torso. That's 40 total health period. That's so easy to do, all you have to do is aim. Lights are not OP by any stretch of the imagination, they are still weak, and have to do alot of work to take down something bigger.


The reason why you may thing they are so tough, is because they move so quick, HSR can sometimes bug out, and spread it everywhere. This is even more prevalent when you're using DOT weapons such as lasers.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Well, what you could also take into consideration is an idea of having different armor profiles below the max value for the different variants in their weight classes. So that different chassis have better defined strengths and weaknesses in relation to other balance factors such as hardpoints and engine ratings.

Since, we have a wide open customization system, where we can take any mech up to their class max for armor and stick in the biggest allowable engine and build from there, many mechs are rendered inferior due to their blend of hit boxes and hardpoints.

So looking at the 35 tonners, since we have so many variants there, what if mechs would need to consider tighter constraints, needing to make greater trade-offs between high agility and speed versus durability and firepower?

Spoiler

The JR7-F stock carries 7 tons of armor, and only having 4 energy hardpoints. If its engine is capped at 245 or 280. It remains the toughest of the three and lacks the missile torso weapons to gain that toughness.

The JR7-D could then only being able to mount 4 to 5 tons of armor, have the most hardpoints at six, and have it's engine cap at 280. Trading armor and speed for extra firepower

Then the JR7-K could carry 4 tons of armor, have it's existing five hardpoints and an engine rating cap of 315. Trading armor and some firepower for more speed

And so alternatively, another example, the non-ECM Ravens would be fighters with an engine cap at 210, and able to carry 7 tons of armor, and be able to carry an array of weapons, where the RVN -3L would only be able to carry 4.5 tons of armor with a 210 or 245 max engine rating with it's Electronic payload.

Then with Firestarters and Panthers, they could be able to carry 6.5 tons of armor and have their engines limited to 210.

Adders would be limited to 6 tons of armor and they have their locked 210 engine and rather size-able space for weapons and other gear.

The actual limits can be tweaked as necessary, so more just a starting point for discussion of the idea at this point.

Also considering 80 tonners, since we now have more variants for that weight, Awesomes would be allowed to mount armor up to weight class max, but also be limited to say the 320 engine max, where Victors would be limited to say 12.5 tons at most and be able to mount up to an XL 400 and have Jump Jets. With the Zeus being limited to 11.5 tons of armor and maybe allowed up to an XL 400 engine too or maybe capped at 320 so that it's more firepower oriented.
Gargoyles would be limited to between 11 to 12.5 tons of armor and have their locked XL 400 engines with 21.5 tons of pod space.

And so this sort of idea should be applied to all mechs, and would likely need to tone down base weapon values at most by 50%, and would need improvements to the Heat System, along with tweaks to quirks, to keep different variants viable and competitive but also differentiate them better too, instead of having a race to armor up and max the engine out with whatever upgrades synergize well such as always picking Endo if there's spare crit slots.

Edited by Praetor Knight, 27 July 2015 - 09:28 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

ShaneoftheDead, on 25 July 2015 - 02:05 PM, said:

So the now that the Cheetah is out, has anyone's opinion changed?

From what I am experiencing, it is yet another confirmation of my point. They are not taking damage, just like the Firestarter. If PGI is incapable of fixing hitboxes on lights then they should slightly reduce their armor. I said "slightly reduce".

Sorry, but lights are even more fragile now that HSR has improved. I'm dropping them much faster. What you were dealing before was simply HSR bugging out at you. Also, keep in mind that mediums are far larger than lights. Making it much easier to hit them, and kill them. Especially with standard engines.

[MechWarrior849305]

"One-more-bad-with-an-awful-aim-in-dat-DWF" thread once in a while Please, continue

Edited by DuoAngel, 27 July 2015 - 11:47 PM.

[Octopot]

Lights are challenging to do nowadays, have to adjust your playstyle when switching to them. I play them on occassion. Like any other mech you can be steamrolled half the time and other days total opposite. Still like my ember, wish I can purchase another module after hitting 1million mech xp lol.

Edited by Octopot, 27 July 2015 - 11:56 PM.

[ShinVector]

ShaneoftheDead, on 25 July 2015 - 02:05 PM, said:

So the now that the Cheetah is out, has anyone's opinion changed?

From what I am experiencing, it is yet another confirmation of my point. They are not taking damage, just like the Firestarter. If PGI is incapable of fixing hitboxes on lights then they should slightly reduce their armor. I said "slightly reduce".

How I dealt with the Artic Cheeter Overload problem.... Brought out Good'Ole AC40.

**SPLAT!!**

https://youtu.be/yiLqbJiXSgk?t=594

[Araevin Teshurr]

Astarot, on 21 April 2015 - 09:08 PM, said:

Is this a feeling? Or something based on hard stats? Cause if it based on hard stats, you should post it here.
If it a feeling, then I'm going to have to vote no on further nerfing a mech class that is already hard to make good amount of money.

What? Light mechs rule the game for money making.
Ravens, Hugins, Firestarters, now the Arctic Cheetah, they all wreck shop with high speed, high sustained dps, and total **** hit boxes that allows a raven to take 3 full alphas from most mechs twice their weight and keep on going. Light mechs are totally broken in this game, and then they added the arctic cheetah everyone is running in.
You see, if you pay for a mech like the Arctic Cheetah, you get to run around like god for a couple months killing everything, raking in the C-bills, until the cries from the player base that get sick of it, make PGI nerf it.

Such is the way of MWO every free to play game, you really have to pay to play with the good stuff.

Edited by Araevin Teshurr, 28 July 2015 - 07:53 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

Araevin Teshurr, on 28 July 2015 - 07:51 AM, said:

What? Light mechs rule the game for money making.
Ravens, Hugins, Firestarters, now the Arctic Cheetah, they all wreck shop with high speed, high sustained dps, and total **** hit boxes that allows a raven to take 3 full alphas from most mechs twice their weight and keep on going. Light mechs are totally broken in this game, and then they added the arctic cheetah everyone is running in.
You see, if you pay for a mech like the Arctic Cheetah, you get to run around like god for a couple months killing everything, raking in the C-bills, until the cries from the player base that get sick of it, make PGI nerf it.

Such is the way of MWO every free to play game, you really have to pay to play with the good stuff.

Yet my DWF still generates triple their income.

Lights aren't "ruling" the game. If they were, the light queue wouldn't hang consistently at the <12%. Light mechs don't get kills easily, don't pack large enough alphas to deal massive damage numbers quickly, and don't usually have enough weapons to start getting internal crits consistently.

I got a 700 damage game in my ARC last night. It took me over 10 minutes in that match to get that number, with 2 kills, and 7 assists. My DWF gets 400 damage within the first 3 minutes of the match. If the match lasts more 6 minutes, I'm guaranteed 700+ damage, and at least 5 kills.

Yes, Lights clearly rule the game. That's why heavies and mediums are the largest percentages of the queue.

No, any queue numbers you're using from after the release of the ARC don't really count, since the mech is still new, so everyone is running it. We saw the same thing when the EBJ was released, and the heavy queue inflated.

Consistently, over the lifetime of this game, the lights sit at less than 12% of the queue, and being the hardest class to use right, for piddly rewards.


As for the rest of the post, all I have to say is that the top, most competitive mechs in the entire game are C-Bill available.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 28 July 2015 - 03:26 PM.

[Wolf Clearwater]

Firestarter has broken hitboxes and always has. Comparing that to any other light is a bad comparison.
edit: grammar

Edited by Wolf Clearwater, 28 July 2015 - 04:03 PM.

[kosmos1214]

ShaneoftheDead, on 27 July 2015 - 06:10 PM, said:

Just because you cannot be bothered to read or think does not mean the problem does not exist. This is one of the more serious problems with the game and I do wish it was addressed. PGI has all but admitted so when they changed the rules for CW to prevent 4 lights in a drop deck and beefed up the turrets. Assaults and Heavies could not even hold ground against them.

no there is a difference between not reading some ones argument and reading and not buying it im the later

[Gladewolf]

....We do not play matches alone,...so looking at so narrow a win loss ratio is pointless. Shane's KDR stat show him to be a better and more established pilot with a Hunchback, than a Firestarter....so their actually isn't any data on this post to prove a need for a light mech nerf.

[KursedVixen]

I dissagree i think lights need more leg armor now with the hit registry fixes

[Puresin]

well, this is my twist to this whole argument.

Light are supposed to be light, when a light can run up to an assault(even standing still I have seen this) fire, the run away after being alpha'd by said assault, the they aren't lights. they should rename that class to the Fast Assaults.

On the note of the locust, they have a quirk that allows them to fire a single large laser as fast as a clan small pulse.

This would indicate that Inner Sphere have higher technology.

The scope of the game has been skewed too much for the lights. period. As well for the inner sphere.

I can back that with proof.

Grasshopper is an innersphere heavy at 70 tonnes. with a loadout of 3 large pulse and 4 med lasers the grasshopper can alpha and only reaches 25% heat.

Direwolf is an omnimech assault class clan mech. with the exact same loadout as the grasshopper (3large pulse, 4 med lasers) an alpha will bring the heat in the dire up to a whopping 66%

seriously pgi is tweaking things here and there, but they are dong it the wrong way.

And to light pilots, (I have 12/51 mechs that are light, so yes I pilot them too.) no, you shouldn't even be able to look at an assault without losing all your armour. It should take no less than a whole lance of lights, with coordination, to take down an assault(unless the pilot is an idiot)

PGI is trying to make this game for "everyone", well< like "war" it's not for EVERYONE. They are just doing it for the MONEY, and since the "call of duty" player wants to play like COD (run shoot, get a kill, respawn, run, repeat)  then PGI will continue to ram their heads up their asses, as long as it keeps players, cause more players means there's a higher chance of making money off them.

Ultimately what I am saying is, Lights ARE too powerful, Inner Sphere HAVE better weapons(even if they don't have the range) and PGI WON'T change because the majority of COD payers want to have "fairness" and have access to all of the same stuff for both sides.

WAR isn't fair. and in the scope of the game, how can they do this and be hones with us players, we the background o the clans is that they have spent 500 years perfecting mech combat, so PGI is trying to tell us that the clans suddenly dumbed down their weapons?

or with THAT much time to advance that we have longer range weapons at the cost of TRIPLING the heat? does't sound like the clans are the clans anymore, sounds like the IS are the clans, and clans just have clan mechs with inner sphere tech. cause for 3x the heat you can do 2 pts more damage per laser for a little extra range.

Edited by Puresin, 30 March 2016 - 02:25 PM.