54 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Ghost Badger, on 23 April 2015 - 05:29 AM, said:

Honestly I'm not horribly against this idea. Making the various weapon classes do varying degrees of damage against armor or internals might actually encourage more mixed builds and/or build assignments. *shrug* In theory it sounds interesting, but I also know PGI wouldn't put the time into coding this.

Too much of their playerbase likes their super long-range, ammo-less laser pointers. Clan AND IS.

For me mixed load out is a way of life. With the exception of my Jager40 and Sara. I have 2 types of weapons on everything, and my most successful (either W/L or KDr) have all 3 weapon types. Lord my Zeus is fun. Minor modified stock ER large, ALRM15, UAC5, 2 Medium. Its a nice fun build.

0bsidion, on 23 April 2015 - 07:51 AM, said:

I don't even boat lasers on any mech that has a choice and I think this is a horrible idea.

Define boating Lasers? My Atlas-S has 4 mediums... That is boating to some folk. Its the stock amount bit some say anything over 2 is boating.

[Abisha]

wait Lasers become a problem now....... really

I vote for winner takes all scream competition. the more vile the scream the more damage to the armor.

[0bsidion]

Joseph Mallan, on 23 April 2015 - 08:08 AM, said:

For me mixed load out is a way of life. With the exception of my Jager40 and Sara. I have 2 types of weapons on everything, and my most successful (either W/L or KDr) have all 3 weapon types. Lord my Zeus is fun. Minor modified stock ER large, ALRM15, UAC5, 2 Medium. Its a nice fun build.

Define boating Lasers? My Atlas-S has 4 mediums... That is boating to some folk. Its the stock amount bit some say anything over 2 is boating.

Since there isn't a universally accepted definition I suppose it can mean whatever you want. I'd say it means when over 80% of your weapons are a single type/category, that's boating.

[Joseph Mallan]

0bsidion, on 23 April 2015 - 09:21 AM, said:

Since there isn't a universally accepted definition I suppose it can mean whatever you want. I'd say it means when over 80% of your weapons are a single type/category, that's boating.

Then My Atlas-S Boats Lasers and SRMs I guess.

[Almond Brown]

Joseph Mallan, on 23 April 2015 - 09:22 AM, said:

Then My Atlas-S Boats Lasers and SRMs I guess.

OMG! Even my bad Maths got this Joe. With 2 systems total, they would be 50% of the total each, thus under the 80% rule, neither would be boated. See, my Gazintwo's is getting better.

P.S. Random thought on the OP though.

Given that "Ballistics" have a more shrapnel based "explosive" impact, versus the Lasers "surgical" cutting type, why could it not be coded to have a Lasers beam pass through a breach (hole) in a Mech that does not actually expose any "internal structure" or components. The Mech Internals are not solid but bone based right. People get shot, through and through, and although not pleasant by any means, often get classified as a flesh wound. Or armor damaged but no bone or vital organ hit.

Same like shooting between a Mechs Legs or Arms. Rare, but it happens as I have done it myself.

[Reitrix]

Crottykid16, on 22 April 2015 - 02:01 PM, said:

SO in lore if I am no mistaken Lasers do a great job at melting armor and creating openings for your other weapons such as AC's and Missiles to exploit into your internals correct? In game though with so many just Laser Vomits on both sides.....it is not only wrecking armor like it is in lore....but also taking out cores....So my idea? Reduce damage to internals that lasers do! Reg and Er lasers should be the least, followed by Pulses and maybe PPC's (though PPC's are so nerfed already maybe leave those untouched). This I feel would break the laser vomit up a bit and well I do not want to say force anyone to put on ballistics or missiles but would be highly recommended. I am not just talking about critical hits but also flat out your Torso's being more robust to lasers. specially at long range laser fights...I am not saying here to drop all damage for lasers to do so inside but it should be cut down significantly by like half or not more IMO. Thoughts if this would help granted if coding for this could be done with out breaking the game entirely. Sick of Laser boats from both IS and Clan...Want to see more rounded "meta" builds, where maybe putting on a single AC5 would be beneficial to both clan AND IS.

How about instead of arbitrarily reducing weapon damage ... We just cut the heatcap in half so we cant vomit rainbows of lasers all at once instead.

[Joseph Mallan]

Almond Brown, on 23 April 2015 - 09:43 AM, said:

OMG! Even my bad Maths got this Joe. With 2 systems total, they would be 50% of the total each, thus under the 80% rule, neither would be boated. See, my Gazintwo's is getting better.

I can have 4 of each Lasers and SRMs Not 80% but still a powerful punch. AND one that has been complained about in the past.

[LordMelvin]

Abisha, on 23 April 2015 - 08:11 AM, said:

wait Lasers become a problem now....... really

I vote for winner takes all scream competition. the more vile the scream the more damage to the armor.

Cry "nerf" and let loose the whiners of war. Seems every major weapon tweak brings out a different class of person complaining about how "x weapon is overpowered" without offering potential buffs to the other weapon systems.

[Burktross]

nah

[CptGier]

bad arcade kitty, on 22 April 2015 - 02:41 PM, said:

it's because ballistics need buff, not lasers need nerf

Lol, Lasers need to go back to TT Values where a LL is a 10/12 and 8/12 weapon. Maybe PGI coujld make the IS one a 8/10 or 8/9 and the Clan one a 10/11, but lasers should do more heat then dmg. It keeps them balanced against Cannons and PPCs.

Lasers are hitscan, no ammo limits but hot.
PPCs are PPD, slower, hotter, but deal similar dmg to heat, in the case of the PPC being a 10/10 PPD and the CERPPC being a 15/15.
ACs are your more dmg for less heat option while being heavy, slow to fire, slow velocity, and ammo hungry.
LRMs are just suppression, finishers, annoying....

[FupDup]

CptGier, on 23 April 2015 - 06:33 PM, said:

Lol, Lasers need to go back to TT Values where a LL is a 10/12 and 8/12 weapon. Maybe PGI coujld make the IS one a 8/10 or 8/9 and the Clan one a 10/11, but lasers should do more heat then dmg. It keeps them balanced against Cannons and PPCs.

Your memory of TT is bad. Also, many lasers do more damage than heat in their TT values. TT values below:

IS:
SL: 3 damage 1 heat
ML: 5 damage 3 heat
LL: 8 damage 8 heat
ERLL: 8 damage 12 heat
SPL: 3 damage 2 heat
MPL: 6 damage 4 heat
LPL: 9 damage 10 heat

Clans:
ERSL: 5 damage 3 heat
ERML: 7 damage 5 heat
ERLL: 10 damage 12 heat
SPL: 3 damage 2 heat
MPL: 7 damage 4 heat
LPL: 10 damage 10 heat

Do note that using those TT values above would result in several weapons becoming underpowered. The IS LL, LPL, ERLL, and SPL would no longer be viable weapons if they used their TT values. The Clan SPL would be useless and the ERLL probably wouldn't be worth using either (due to MWO's heat system). The Clan ERML however would be massively overpowered with TT values, being literally a LL that weighs 1 ton instead of 5.

Edited by FupDup, 23 April 2015 - 06:40 PM.

[S13gtastic]

Juodas Varnas, on 22 April 2015 - 07:31 PM, said:

I'm just hoping they'll implement Laser Reflective Armor in 3058 for IS. Which is supposed to reduce the damage OF ALL ENERGY weapons (PPCs, Lasers, Plasma Rifles, Flamers) by 50%

Isn't that armor weak to ballistics though?

[Gyrok]

Crottykid16, on 22 April 2015 - 02:01 PM, said:

SO in lore if I am no mistaken Lasers do a great job at melting armor and creating openings for your other weapons such as AC's and Missiles to exploit into your internals correct? In game though with so many just Laser Vomits on both sides.....it is not only wrecking armor like it is in lore....but also taking out cores....So my idea? Reduce damage to internals that lasers do! Reg and Er lasers should be the least, followed by Pulses and maybe PPC's (though PPC's are so nerfed already maybe leave those untouched). This I feel would break the laser vomit up a bit and well I do not want to say force anyone to put on ballistics or missiles but would be highly recommended. I am not just talking about critical hits but also flat out your Torso's being more robust to lasers. specially at long range laser fights...I am not saying here to drop all damage for lasers to do so inside but it should be cut down significantly by like half or not more IMO. Thoughts if this would help granted if coding for this could be done with out breaking the game entirely. Sick of Laser boats from both IS and Clan...Want to see more rounded "meta" builds, where maybe putting on a single AC5 would be beneficial to both clan AND IS.

Clan ballistics are terrible, while I want them to be good...nerfing lasers is not going to do anything but nerf lasers.

People need to get over this idea that somehow nerfing one thing makes something else suddenly better. It does not accomplish that, it just makes that one thing worse. Nerfing lasers for both sides is not a sound or worthy goal.

S13gtastic, on 23 April 2015 - 08:16 PM, said:

Isn't that armor weak to ballistics though?

Plasma rifles are ballistics...and yes, it is weak to projectile weapons. Reflective is strong only against beam weapons. So PPCs would be completely unaffected and do more damage.

[SaltBeef]

Reactive was the other armor. Crap armor that the ruskies still use today. Wont stop a Sabot round going 4000fps maybe only a heat round. Anti RPG armor that would better be replaced with a cage like on the stryker.

[Juodas Varnas]

Gyrok, on 23 April 2015 - 08:25 PM, said:

Plasma rifles are ballistics...and yes, it is weak to projectile weapons. Reflective is strong only against beam weapons. So PPCs would be completely unaffected and do more damage.

I don't know where you pulled that out of, but it's not true. PPCs and Plasma rifles are considered Energy weapons and are affected by Reflective armor, seeing how 90% of builds nowadays (and most of the time, i remember) are either pure energy or mainly energy, well, i'd definitely use it over Ferro-fibrous.
I also, don't remember increased vulnerability to ballistic weapons. Just physical attacks, falling over, crashing through buildings and **** like that.