33 replies to this topic

[Spleenslitta]

What is a Binary Laser? (also called Blazer)

http://www.sarna.net...ry_Laser_Cannon


Egomane said it is out of the timeline but i think it's in a gray area since prototypes showed up in Free Worlds League in 2812 and MWO is in 3050.
The Zeus 6Y which was the first to mount a Binary Laser came out in 2922 although in limited numbers.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Zeus
We might as well discuss it since timejumps might occur.

It has the same range (450meters) as an ordinary Large Laser in the TT game.
16 heat
12 damage
9 tonns weight and 4 critical spaces.

Sounds like it would be a bad weapon right? Not necessarily if we add some traits.

Here is some info on the Bombast Laser which is somewhat similar to the Binary Laser.
http://www.sarna.net...i/Bombast_Laser

It is 2 tonnes lighter and takes up 1 less critical slot than the Binary and has an inbuilt charging trait allready.
It also has a glow when it charges.
Otherwise it's nearly identical to the Binary Laser. Range. Maximum damage potential is identical.

How could the Binary Laser or Bombast Laser work in MWO and how should we balance it?
I'll call it BL from now on.

It's rivals among the IS energy weapons would clearly be the Large Laser and PPC because of ranges and damage.
Maybe even the Gauss.
Let's try to balance the BL with it's rivals.

Keep in mind that i'm not necessarily suggesting the BL get's all these disadvantages/advantages all at once.
If you have any suggestions for anything i should add to the poll please tell me.
Let's discuss and figure out what works.

Charge up time
It could have a charge up time just like the Gauss. Or maybe it could have a charge up time with 3 stages?
1/3 charge 4 damage 5.3 heat.
2/3 charge 8 damage 10.6 heat.
3/3 full charge 12 damage 16 heat.

Regardless of which charging stage you fire it the cooldown is the same.
Or could it be less at lower charge to give it some extra leverage in comparison to it's rivals the LL/PPC.

Burn duration.
Maybe a different burn duration depending on charging stage?
Low charge - pinpoint damage.
Medium charge - 0.15 secs
Full charge - 0.25 secs

We could either hold the button to charge or we could have 3 level toggle like with zoom.
Toggle it to medium charge for example and the weapon will stop charging at medium charge.

Or we could do it simple. Point damage or a very short burn duration regardless of charge.
Maybe somewhere between 0.25 to 0.5 seconds burn duration would be good if pin point damage is too powerfull?
If the burn duration is longer than 0.5 secs the BL losses too much of it's appeal in comparison to it's rivals.

Firerate?
Maybe it should be the same as Gauss at when you fire BL regardless of charging levels?
Or maybe it should have faster firerate at lower charges?
To be quite frank i haven't got a clue. Put up some suggestions and i will add it to the poll.

Penalties for holding a full charge?
If you hold full charge past 2 seconds or so you could get one of the following-
-Heat penalties. The longer you hold it the more heat you get. Stole the idea from Escef.
-Longer cooldown.
-Damage the weapon.

How long would it take to get to full charge? I have no idea.
Suggestions by players with a lot of experience with Gauss rifles would be appriciated.

Heat transfer trait?
Maybe it could also transfer a bit of heat into the target when it's fired at full charge?

How about 2 or 4 heat to the target but only at full charge?
I thought about 6 heat but that would just be too much when you compare it to the PPC anti ECM trait.

I know this trait means shutdown mechs could be instant killed with this, but it's their fault for getting so hot in the first place.
Besides BL takes a bit to charge up and it's hot to fire at full charge to get the heat transfer bonus.
So the BL user might risk killing himself due to heat while trying to instant kill his too hot opponent.

To stop boating.
A 2 weapon charging limit just like the Gauss rifle is possible.
But maybe it should even have a bigger limit because of the heat transfer trait?

That heat transfer could be significant threat to a hot enemy mech if you shot 2 BL's at him at once.
It could be an instant kill due to the sudden unexpected heat spike.
Maybe a mech can only mount 1 BL and no more?
It's an experimental weapon afterall so it must be rare.

To summarise. BL could have the following stats and traits.
9 Tonns. 4 Crits. 12 damage. 16 Heat. 450m range.
It's a laser so it has instant travel time.

3 stages of charge with higher damage/heat at the different stages or just a plain charging time.

Different burn durations depending on charging stages.
Vote for how long burn duration should be at full charge in the poll to determine what we should do here.
Pinpoint damage at low charge?
Medium charge - 0.15 or 0.25 secs?
Full charge 0.25 or 0.35 or 0.5 secs?

Penalties if you hold the full charge for too long. (heat, weapon damage or cooldown penalty)

2 or 4 Heat transfer to enemy at full charge.
Faster cooldown (firerate) if you fire at less than full charge?

If you have anything you wish me to add to the poll or the list of potential traits tell me.
Feel free to PM me if your suggestion doesn't get my attention within 24 hours.

Why should IS get a weapon the Clans have no access to? It's unfair.
Clan has Streak SRM 4/6 and 3 different types of AC's in all the calibers if Smurfy is correct.
IS don't have that huge variety of AC's or Streaks.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 18 April 2015 - 01:57 PM.

[Egomane]

It's out of timeline!

The prototype Zeus that fielded it 150 years ago only had a very small production run and only in 3070, which is a 20 year time jump, is the weapon reoccuring in the inner sphere.

[Spleenslitta]

Egomane, on 17 April 2015 - 11:46 AM, said:

It's out of timeline!

The prototype Zeus that fielded it 150 years ago only had a very small production run and only in 3070, which is a 20 year time jump, is the weapon reoccuring in the inner sphere.

It depends on how you think. On Sarna it says this.-

"While research on the Blazer started in the Lyran Commonwealth in 2801, actual prototype models first showed up in the Free Worlds League in 2812. "

MWO is at 3050 now and the prototypes showed up in FWL in 2812. So it could be a rare weapon.
Besides PGI did say that timejumps might happen so we might as well discuss this now anyways.

In any case thanks for your thoughts.

[Skarlock]

Why would you give a binary laser a charge time when a *bombast* laser is the BT lore laser that has a charge time? That makes no sense to me at all. I'd rather they not implement the blazer, period, and instead give us the bombast. Screw this timeline nonsense, just give us more interesting and unique weapons to play with PGI!

http://www.sarna.net...ry_Laser_Cannon

http://www.sarna.net...i/Bombast_Laser

Edited by Skarlock, 17 April 2015 - 12:00 PM.

[Spleenslitta]

Skarlock, on 17 April 2015 - 11:59 AM, said:

Why would you give a binary laser a charge time when a *bombast* laser is the BT lore laser that has a charge time? That makes no sense to me at all. I'd rather they not implement the blazer, period, and instead give us the bombast. Screw this timeline nonsense, just give us more interesting and unique weapons to play with PGI!

http://www.sarna.net...ry_Laser_Cannon

http://www.sarna.net...i/Bombast_Laser

The Bombast laser is a delicious weapon, but it's not 3064 in the MWO timeline yet so that one is definitivly not acceptable for PGI.
Can totally relate to your viewpoint when it comes to PGI giving us new toys though.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 17 April 2015 - 12:09 PM.

[Nightshade24]

Egomane, on 17 April 2015 - 11:46 AM, said:

It's out of timeline!

The prototype Zeus that fielded it 150 years ago only had a very small production run and only in 3070, which is a 20 year time jump, is the weapon reoccuring in the inner sphere.

Doesn't that apply to the King crabs and a few battlemasters and locusts for "rarity and not around now but slightly more later on" ?

[Egomane]

Spleenslitta, on 17 April 2015 - 11:57 AM, said:

It depends on how you think. On Sarna it says this.-

"While research on the Blazer started in the Lyran Commonwealth in 2801, actual prototype models first showed up in the Free Worlds League in 2812. "

MWO is at 3050 now and the prototypes showed up in FWL in 2812. So it could be a rare weapon.
Besides PGI did say that timejumps might happen so we might as well discuss this now anyways.

In any case thanks for your thoughts.

By that logic every weapon the star league ever developed is fine. Who cares that the knowledge about them got lost over time.

The Blazer was developed and ran into problems. It was shelfed. It took the inner sphere scientist until 3070 to even remember that there once was such a concept and to find viable ways to build it into a mech again.

Edited by Egomane, 17 April 2015 - 09:43 PM.

[Spleenslitta]

Nightshade24, on 17 April 2015 - 07:06 PM, said:

Doesn't that apply to the King crabs and a few battlemasters and locusts for "rarity and not around now but slightly more later on" ?

Really? Note that i prefer remaining as close to neutral as i can. As i said the Binary Laser is a "grey area" for me.

According to Sarna the Battlemaster 3S came out in 3050 so it should be in limited numbers yet. Looked over the Locust and King Crab variations.
Seems they checked out but you guys probably know more than me. Never played the TT game.

If Egomane is correct i still think we should discuss this since PGI has mentioned possible timejumps.
Besides i these ideas could be used for the Bombast Laser instead because of the 3 stage charging idea.

It's not like it's going to hurt anyone if we just....talk about it.

[TheArisen]

We have made up/out of timeline mech varients. I don't see why we can't get a weapon or two that isn't totally in timeline as well.

[Nightshade24]

Spleenslitta, on 17 April 2015 - 10:36 PM, said:

Really? Note that i prefer remaining as close to neutral as i can. As i said the Binary Laser is a "grey area" for me.

According to Sarna the Battlemaster 3S came out in 3050 so it should be in limited numbers yet. Looked over the Locust and King Crab variations.
Seems they checked out but you guys probably know more than me. Never played the TT game.

If Egomane is correct i still think we should discuss this since PGI has mentioned possible timejumps.
Besides i these ideas could be used for the Bombast Laser instead because of the 3 stage charging idea.

It's not like it's going to hurt anyone if we just....talk about it.

King crab is so highly expensive to maintain for post SLDF (and even during SLDF for rearm) and are now rare that only a group of kingcrabs exist in the IS while Clan Ghost Bear atm has more King Crabs (mainly 000b's) then the entire IS put together in working condition.

If anything King Crabs should be on the clan side in CW along with early battlemaster, locust, highlander, etc variants.

The King crab would never see action against the clans until the IS made new ones. Which is thins like the king crab 001 and 005 if I am not mistakend.

basicly nearly any mech with Double Heatsinks, Endo steel, ferro, Artemis, ER PPC or er large lasers, pulse lasers, Gauss, LBX, UAC, etc... Is basically very rare, or extinct practically.

Edited by Nightshade24, 18 April 2015 - 01:35 AM.

[Spleenslitta]

Nightshade24, on 18 April 2015 - 01:21 AM, said:

King crab is so highly expensive to maintain for post SLDF (and even during SLDF for rearm) and are now rare that only a group of kingcrabs exist in the IS while Clan Ghost Bear atm has more King Crabs (mainly 000b's) then the entire IS put together in working condition.

If anything King Crabs should be on the clan side in CW along with early battlemaster, locust, highlander, etc variants.

The King crab would never see action against the clans until the IS made new ones. Which is thins like the king crab 001 and 005 if I am not mistakend.

basicly nearly any mech with Double Heatsinks, Endo steel, ferro, Artemis, ER PPC or er large lasers, pulse lasers, Gauss, LBX, UAC, etc... Is basically very rare, or extinct practically.

Whoa. That's a real eyeopener. My sincere thanks for that Nightshade.

I was afraid there was almost no hope whatsoever of the Binary Laser ever seeing the light of day in MWO.

In any case let's talk about other traits the Binary Laser could have instead of the Heat transfer thingy since it's so dangerous against hot shutdown mechs.
Or just talk about how to balance the BL with it's rival IS weapons PPC, LL, LPL through stats.

Please start throwing around ideas people.

[Sniper09121986]

Spleenslitta, on 17 April 2015 - 11:25 AM, said:

Why should IS get a weapon the Clans have no access to? It's unfair.
Clan has Streak SRM 4/6 and 3 different types of AC's in all the calibers if Smurfy is correct.
IS don't have that huge variety of AC's or Streaks.

By 3059 we will have heavy lasers and ER pulse lasers, but when will that be IRL... I think we have enough mechs for the time being, might as well load up new weapon systems that would give the current meta a good swing. Same old missiles and PPC start to get boring.

[DustySkunk]

Just wanted to point out that the poll's first question is whether the laser should have a charge, and multiple followup questions are charge related. The followup questions should contain "Not Applicable" answers for if you don't think there should be a charge. Can't really fill out the poll without these.

My two cents: I like the idea of introducing alternative weapon systems, but I'm not sure that the Blazer is the right choice. If we look at it from pure numbers as it is portrayed on Sarna, the Blazer effectively is equivalent to a high heat, ammo-less Gauss Rifle or a hitscan PPC with burn time. This wouldn't do much to shake up gameplay or introduce new tactical options as it would have a very similar role to existing weapons.

I would much rather see the Bombast laser, as I love the idea of holding a charge for more damage output and think that would add an interesting mechanic to the current mix. Also, the telltale "chargeup" glow would not only look cool, but would potentially make the mechwarrior have to make a choice between flagging their position for more damage or firing immediately for less.

Edited by DustySkunk, 18 April 2015 - 08:08 AM.

[Nightshade24]

Spleenslitta, on 18 April 2015 - 06:24 AM, said:

Whoa. That's a real eyeopener. My sincere thanks for that Nightshade.

I was afraid there was almost no hope whatsoever of the Binary Laser ever seeing the light of day in MWO.

In any case let's talk about other traits the Binary Laser could have instead of the Heat transfer thingy since it's so dangerous against hot shutdown mechs.
Or just talk about how to balance the BL with it's rival IS weapons PPC, LL, LPL through stats.

Please start throwing around ideas people.

Alright.

Another thing I should mention is that the clans actually have a king crab IIC aka the "Super Nova" which if you count those the clans have an extreme ammount of kingcrabs more then the IS however clan ghost bear have a lot that is still the normal king crab.
I also derped with the locust I did forget for a split second that it is the most common battlemech on earth and that's like me saying that fly's are going extinct irl but I do think the clans have access to early ones anyway.
(On topic of rarity all clan mechs with the "S" config, couldron born and shadowcat, and a few more mechs are just newly produced and have no time to get to IS space. and most hero mechs is based on future variants of a mech or prototypes of it. meaning these are 1 of a kind mechs , fail mechs, or mechs that are 3060's, 3070's, and fun fact: the shadowcat P is based on a jihad or post jihad Shadowcat...)

[edit: oh, all mechs with "b" on the end for IS are also extinct/ uber rare for them, ie the Highlander 732b, Kingcrab 000b, this is because these are semi-rare SLDF versions of these mechs before they left. These were high tech and rare for the time and when they left they took a lot of them and also these were stripped out so another mech can have ECM, Artemis, etc. ]



NOW for weapon balance I have to remind you for the whole "Stun locking" problem .PGI already prevented that happening.
Flamers and lava can't get you over 90% heat aka can't shut down a mech without firing at you.

This is why lava doesn't increase your heat over 90% either.


That being said. What are the special lore effects this thing have or could have? I am a bit rusty with the blazer. I do know it's technically 2 large lasers put together that does less damage then 2 large lasers but still quite high for 1 weapon (ie more then is PPC), etc.

It'll be a very hard weapon to make I imagine... since it fires from 2 points. That may be a HUGE amount of coding for something that doesn't bare any fruit.

Kinda same reason why we don't have the LBX ammo switch ability in mid game for clans. We need a reason for this to be in game that's good enough for the effort as from what I know it's rather niche weapon that stock wise fits on 1 mech in this time period and such.

It doesn't seem like a weapon I want everywhere to begin with. Like I do not want to see a light mech to have 2 blazers.
or 6 blazers on an assault (Note this would be a blazer version of a deathstar, but still...)

This is a weapon I kinda would like to see with no more then 2 and we need it ballanced as clans do not have this weapon.

Clans are already in a confusing situation right now where people cry from 99% UP on the clans to 100% OP . Etc.
Blazer could be the icing on the cake for the 99% UP peoples who feel like there is power creep and pocket nerfs everywhere.

Edited by Nightshade24, 18 April 2015 - 12:06 PM.

[Spleenslitta]

DustySkunk, on 18 April 2015 - 08:07 AM, said:

Just wanted to point out that the poll's first question is whether the laser should have a charge, and multiple followup questions are charge related. The followup questions should contain "Not Applicable" answers for if you don't think there should be a charge. Can't really fill out the poll without these.

My two cents: I like the idea of introducing alternative weapon systems, but I'm not sure that the Blazer is the right choice. If we look at it from pure numbers as it is portrayed on Sarna, the Blazer effectively is equivalent to a high heat, ammo-less Gauss Rifle or a hitscan PPC with burn time. This wouldn't do much to shake up gameplay or introduce new tactical options as it would have a very similar role to existing weapons.

I would much rather see the Bombast laser, as I love the idea of holding a charge for more damage output and think that would add an interesting mechanic to the current mix. Also, the telltale "chargeup" glow would not only look cool, but would potentially make the mechwarrior have to make a choice between flagging their position for more damage or firing immediately for less.

Changed the poll significantly. (may have gone overboard) Thanks for the headsup.

That's what hit me too. It would be like an ammoless hot gauss rifle with smaller range. No 3x maximum range though.
What traits could we put on the Binary Laser to keep it fair? Maybe get a burn duration of more than 1 second? I'll put that in the poll too.

But yes. I do like the Bombast Laser more to be honest. It's lighter and smaller for the same range and damage potential.
The reason i put up this thread about the Binary Laser instead is the timelines these 2 weapons are released.
Either weapon would be fine with me actually. I'll add a question to the poll just for this.

Nightshade24, on 18 April 2015 - 11:51 AM, said:

Textwall which i always appriciate.

I had no idea about that stuff regarding mech variants and their designations.

As for the BL firing 2 lasers at the same time causing coding problems. Maybe just make a thicker beam or just plain change it's color?
Pink laser with sparkles? XD

Boating won't be a problem if PGI says: This weapon is so rare.... so outright badass that a mech can only mount 1 Binary Laser.
Yes i know....players will still think the side they are fighting against is OP.

I try my best to remain neutral but whenever i see clan weaponry i just drool...
But then i pity the clanners for their difficulties. So many things in their mechs that cannot be altered.
i honestly cannot make up my mind which side has it easier.

[Kenyon Burguess]

I cant get past these points:

1. 2 large lasers are better, or a single ppc/erppc is better. a game shouldn't put bad weapons into a game for flavor reasons.

2. prototypes are a first, typical or preliminary model of something, especially a machine, from which other forms are developed or copied. even if it made it onto a fwlm mech in 2812 for testing, it wasn't picked up for manufacturing. the next time its seen is with the steiners and even they ditched the BL after a very limited run. lore didn't like it either.

3. its a dev time sink for a weapon few would use...maybe even just spleensutta

[Spleenslitta]

Geist Null, on 18 April 2015 - 02:12 PM, said:

I cant get past these points:

1. 2 large lasers are better, or a single ppc/erppc is better. a game shouldn't put bad weapons into a game for flavor reasons.

2. prototypes are a first, typical or preliminary model of something, especially a machine, from which other forms are developed or copied. even if it made it onto a fwlm mech in 2812 for testing, it wasn't picked up for manufacturing. the next time its seen is with the steiners and even they ditched the BL after a very limited run. lore didn't like it either.

3. its a dev time sink for a weapon few would use...maybe even just spleensutta

1: Well it is a laser so it's easier to hit with and it has no minimum range unlike the PPC.
But what we are here to discuss is how to make the Binary or Bombast Laser into viable weapons that can compete with PPC, LPL, LL.
We may not be able to change it's range, damage and such. But we can do other things such as discuss firerate, add traits like heat transfer.
Actually if you have any ideas for traits please tell us. We need all the brains we can gather to think about this.

2: Yes but look at post #10 and #14 by Nightshade24. He makes some points about rare and near extinct mechs being in MWO despite their rarity.
Besides PGI have made up a few of the hero/variant mechs. So why not a weapon?

3: Dev time sink? Hmm....maybe not. After all they would just have to change laser color if they want to do it the easy way with firing animations.
Would few players use it? It all depends on what traits it might get.
Charging it and getting less damage with shorter burn times makes it flexible.
If it gets a heat transfer even if it's a small amount of heat it is still something.
Don't worry about boating it. Answered that in the post above yours.

Would i use this weapon? I think i would give it a go. I can easily wring 2 more tonns out of my Vindicator 1AA's secondary weapons to replace it's PPC with a Binary laser.
If it becomes a Bombast laser i would use it for sure. Often. A lot.

In the end i see no harm in discussing it.

[DustySkunk]

Honestly I think the Blazer would be fine sticking to the pure TT stats. 12 damage at 9 tons and 4 crits with a heat gen of 16 is pretty balanced for MWO. Boating won't be possible/practical due to the heat penalties and tonnage restrictions. Trying to boat Blazers would be very similar to trying to boat PPCs and we know how that works these days (R.I.P. Hexa-stalker). People who would boat this weapon would either be doing it for the lulz (et al Direstar) or would be severely limited in their ability to sustain fire.

As far as the weapon firing from two points: My understanding is that they simply fused two LL cores. Although they don't explicitly state in the description of the weapon, I think it can be inferred that the weapon fires one beam. Think of two flashlights being redirected through one lens. Otherwise you are just firing two LLs taped together...

[Egomane]

Spleenslitta, on 18 April 2015 - 02:40 PM, said:

2: Yes but look at post #10 and #14 by Nightshade24. He makes some points about rare and near extinct mechs being in MWO despite their rarity.
Besides PGI have made up a few of the hero/variant mechs. So why not a weapon?

Exactly... Mechs! And all of them use timeline appropriate technology. You are talking about the introduction of technology into the game we currently shouldn't have.

Those are two seperate topics.

Mech rarity went out of the window, the moment we got hero mechs. There should only be one Yen-Lo-Wang, yet there are thousends of them. I'm not happy with that either, but I can accept it for two reasons.

1) It is just another mech variant. Other hardpoints do not create issues with the current balance like new weapon systems would.

2) Hero mechs are one option for PGI to make money with the game. It should be something special. Special variants are therefore a legit choice. They are mechs some players might want to buy for their known battletech history, thus creating the revenue we all need to play this game, without creating an off-balance.

The Blazer isn't rare or extinct in the inner sphere at this very moment. It is forgotten. The Kingcrab is rare, but in existence. The S variants of the clans are are actually only other loadouts for omnimechs. There is no need to create something new here. Those refits could be made during the invasion as long as they don't include any new technology (which the ones we have don't do). That those different loadouts are sold as different variants is a part of MWOs need for variants for the skill system.

Edited by Egomane, 18 April 2015 - 03:18 PM.

[Spleenslitta]

Egomane, on 18 April 2015 - 03:17 PM, said:

Exactly... Mechs! And all of them use timeline appropriate technology. You are talking about the introduction of technology into the game we currently shouldn't have.

Those are two seperate topics.

Mech rarity went out of the window, the moment we got hero mechs. There should only be one Yen-Lo-Wang, yet there are thousends of them. I'm not happy with that either, but I can accept it for two reasons.

1) It is just another mech variant. Other hardpoints do not create issues with the current balance like new weapon systems would.

2) Hero mechs are one option for PGI to make money with the game. It should be something special. Special variants are therefore a legit choice. They are mechs some players might want to buy for their known battletech history, thus creating the revenue we all need to play this game, without creating an off-balance.

The Blazer isn't rare or extinct in the inner sphere at this very moment. It is forgotten. The Kingcrab is rare, but in existence. The S variants of the clans are are actually only other loadouts for omnimechs. There is no need to create something new here. Those refits could be made during the invasion as long as they don't include any new technology (which the ones we have don't do). That those different loadouts are sold as different variants is a part of MWOs need for variants for the skill system.

Why can we get mechs that are rare at this point in the timeline, but never weapons?

1: Why would the BL create an issue with the weapon hardpoints? It's just another energy weapon. No biggie.

2: We can get looooads of the unique Yen-Lo-Wang which is a one of a kind mech.
And yet we cannot get a Binary Laser because it lies forgotten in a dusty corner of a storage house?

We can get all these rare/unique/non canonical mech variants below but not the Binary Laser?
There are more Zeus 6Y's than the Yen-Lo-Wang in IS space, but we cannot get this Zeus variant because you dissaprove of it?

I looked at all the mechs that we currently have in MWO despite their origins below on Sarna.
I might be wrong about some of them though since i never played the TT game.
I'll mark them like this-

-Unique(U)
-Non Canonical. PGI made them up (NC)
I put (NC) on anything i didn't find on Sarna.

Pirate's Bane (NC)
Death Knell. (U) Possibly even (NC)
little Sarah's Jenner (NC)
Oxide (NC)
Ember (NC)
Cicada X5 (NC)
Yen-Lo-Wang (U)
Boar's Head (NC)
Pretty Baby (NC)
Arrow (NC)
Grid Iron (NC)
Gray Death (U)
Loup De Guerre (NC)
Sparky (U)
Fang and Flame (NC)
Jester (NC)
IV-Four (NC)
Firebrand (NC)
Ilya Muromets (NC)
Protector (NC)
Dragon Slayer (NC)
Misery (NC)
Heavy Metal (NC)
Many Highlander and King Crab variants seems to be rare. Can't make sense of which ones though.


PGI needs to make money and Hero mechs are a great way of doing it, but we cannot get a single weapon because you dissaprove?
Pardon me but i just don't understand you.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 18 April 2015 - 11:41 PM.