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#41 Malleus011

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 09:32 AM

I've been running my 2N with an ERPPC and twin ASRM6 in the right shoulder. I've noticed that the 'double bubble' missile pods draw fire like a magnet once the enemy picks you up visually. Ignoring the left side missile hard points makes me look more like a normal Griffin that just happens to be under ECM cover. (Nothing to see here ... move along)

Normal Griffins are good, but this one is a lot better, just because of ECM. I pull off sniper shots and hit-and-runs I could never survive in my 1N or 3M. I'm just an average pilot, but manage 3-4 kill drops with 300-500 damage fairly often. In skilled hands it will be far deadlier.

#42 InRev

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 11:06 AM

View PostTractor Joe, on 28 April 2015 - 07:16 PM, said:

Hmm
pic is worth 1000 words.


Posted Image

Lurms do it again, not every mech with missile points is a brawler/striker

Edit: though the argument can be made that some of these fast mediums with 4-5 lrm5s or 3 lrm10s are strikers. Later in the game I started taking longer shots while running to where they were at, but early game it was LOS and indirect fire at 150-500m and I got a lot of erll hits in.


Uh, that's a pretty mediocre match, especially considering how incredibly bad the enemy team was (regarding that, you'll want to edit that screenshot to black out the names, because that is a shameful performance all-around)

If you're going to cherry pick with screenshots (which is already a logical fallacy, btw) you should probably pick one that isn't a totally average score for most decent medium pilots.

#43 jss78

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 01:22 PM

View PostInRev, on 29 April 2015 - 11:06 AM, said:


Uh, that's a pretty mediocre match, especially considering how incredibly bad the enemy team was (regarding that, you'll want to edit that screenshot to black out the names, because that is a shameful performance all-around)

If you're going to cherry pick with screenshots (which is already a logical fallacy, btw) you should probably pick one that isn't a totally average score for most decent medium pilots.


So you're saying that having by far the team's highest damage and match score -- in a 55-tonner -- is "mediocre"? If this is so, what does that make all the heavy and assault mech pilots in the team?

A rule of thumb going around these forums is that doing >5 times your tonnage in damage is "good". Be the merit of that rule as it may, in my experience doing about that (that is, 275 damage with a 55-tonner) generally places you higher than your tonnage in your team's damage tally.

I'll believe that 700 points is average damage for a "decent" medium pilot the day I see actual statistics to show that -- I'm not holding my breath though.

#44 Crotch RockIt

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 01:28 PM

View Postjss78, on 29 April 2015 - 01:22 PM, said:


So you're saying that having by far the team's highest damage and match score -- in a 55-tonner -- is "mediocre"? If this is so, what does that make all the heavy and assault mech pilots in the team?

A rule of thumb going around these forums is that doing >5 times your tonnage in damage is "good". Be the merit of that rule as it may, in my experience doing about that (that is, 275 damage with a 55-tonner) generally places you higher than your tonnage in your team's damage tally.

I'll believe that 700 points is average damage for a "decent" medium pilot the day I see actual statistics to show that -- I'm not holding my breath though.


It's a decent performance for an ECM LRM boat against a derp team, which is what the opfor was.

Edit: I just noticed that the map was Caustic, possibly the most LRM friendly map in the game. There would have been no excuse not to carry hard in that game with that loadout on that mech against that team.

Edited by Crotch RockIt, 29 April 2015 - 01:32 PM.


#45 percolated1

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 01:58 PM

View PostTractor Joe, on 28 April 2015 - 07:16 PM, said:

Hmm
pic is worth 1000 words.


Posted Image

Lurms do it again, not every mech with missile points is a brawler/striker

Edit: though the argument can be made that some of these fast mediums with 4-5 lrm5s or 3 lrm10s are strikers. Later in the game I started taking longer shots while running to where they were at, but early game it was LOS and indirect fire at 150-500m and I got a lot of erll hits in.


I am really, really starting to love the 2N's spread perks, especially with the high dead center aim on the launchers. Had 765 damage, one kill, seven assists earlier today using 4xSRM4 splat with ER PPC backup, and I'm starting to get regular 400-500 damage drops. Just wish there was something else I could get rid of to add another ton of ammo (the BAP I was running before is history, I really do appreciate the commenter who pointed out the BAP's ECM counter effect does not actually stack with ECM). Kinda loathe to get rid of a couple jump jets, kinda loathe to downgrade the ER PPC to something smaller... meh.

#46 Johny Rocket

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 04:39 PM

View PostInRev, on 29 April 2015 - 11:06 AM, said:


Uh, that's a pretty mediocre match, especially considering how incredibly bad the enemy team was (regarding that, you'll want to edit that screenshot to black out the names, because that is a shameful performance all-around)

If you're going to cherry pick with screenshots (which is already a logical fallacy, btw) you should probably pick one that isn't a totally average score for most decent medium pilots.

Post a scoreboard, that you get to cherry pick, with a score close to that in a 55t IS, I'll give you a 100 dmg handicap, and I'll take it down.
I had a fun match and caught the scoreboard with the intention of replying here to someone who called the 2N subpar.
I could get more kills but I don't try for the kills because the assist is worth more and I got kill most damage dealt bonus on half of those and 5 component destroyed, which is why my match score was high for that damage and kills/assists. Grinding cbills and xp.

They weren't a bad team it was conquest and we had a plan, my lance stayed together with a few strays and we caught their assaults spread out and alone in the open. That bit was luck and has everything to do with the win. My KDR in that mech is 1.83, it was over 3 until I played around with an srm build.

View PostCrotch RockIt, on 29 April 2015 - 01:28 PM, said:


It's a decent performance for an ECM LRM boat against a derp team, which is what the opfor was.

Edit: I just noticed that the map was Caustic, possibly the most LRM friendly map in the game. There would have been no excuse not to carry hard in that game with that loadout on that mech against that team.

Does 4 lrm5s count as a boat, how about with an erlll? I wasn't the only one with ecm or Lrms, had to run a few times, a Timby actual got a few good dumbfire hits on me because a teammate was up my back.
Also I've owned that mech since Sunday and only played 11 matches in it, Didn't even have basic done yet.

View Postjss78, on 29 April 2015 - 01:22 PM, said:


So you're saying that having by far the team's highest damage and match score -- in a 55-tonner -- is "mediocre"? If this is so, what does that make all the heavy and assault mech pilots in the team?

A rule of thumb going around these forums is that doing >5 times your tonnage in damage is "good". Be the merit of that rule as it may, in my experience doing about that (that is, 275 damage with a 55-tonner) generally places you higher than your tonnage in your team's damage tally.

I'll believe that 700 points is average damage for a "decent" medium pilot the day I see actual statistics to show that -- I'm not holding my breath though.

Thanks. I was not aware of that rule of thumb, fast 55t are what I like to play, since I got into them it has ruined my Stalkers. For mediums I consider anything under 300 dmg bad. Can't wait to get the Griffs to Master tier, I expect better matches than this.

View Postpercolated1, on 29 April 2015 - 01:58 PM, said:


I am really, really starting to love the 2N's spread perks, especially with the high dead center aim on the launchers. Had 765 damage, one kill, seven assists earlier today using 4xSRM4 splat with ER PPC backup, and I'm starting to get regular 400-500 damage drops. Just wish there was something else I could get rid of to add another ton of ammo (the BAP I was running before is history, I really do appreciate the commenter who pointed out the BAP's ECM counter effect does not actually stack with ECM). Kinda loathe to get rid of a couple jump jets, kinda loathe to downgrade the ER PPC to something smaller... meh.

I can't do the srm thing, once I get on a target its hard to pull back and not just go at them till dead. Lrms give me that little extra range where I can be aggressive and the penalties are not so steep. Try it with 1 erll 4lrm5s and an xl300, play the same way you would the srms but just outside 180m. I play the 2N just like I play the Kintaro, here's a vid that shows what I am talking about.
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__4377688

The 2N might just be my new favorite murder machine, trading 1 erll for an ecm and jumps jets is so worth it. Thats my fav 55t build 2x erll and lrm=20.

Edited by Tractor Joe, 29 April 2015 - 04:55 PM.


#47 Crotch RockIt

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 09:16 PM

View PostTractor Joe, on 29 April 2015 - 04:39 PM, said:

Post a scoreboard, that you get to cherry pick, with a score close to that in a 55t IS, I'll give you a 100 dmg handicap, and I'll take it down.
I had a fun match and caught the scoreboard with the intention of replying here to someone who called the 2N subpar.
I could get more kills but I don't try for the kills because the assist is worth more and I got kill most damage dealt bonus on half of those and 5 component destroyed, which is why my match score was high for that damage and kills/assists. Grinding cbills and xp.


Can I play? Here's one with the oft-maligned Golden Boy, running LRM5's and MPL's as backup.

Posted Image



View PostTractor Joe, on 29 April 2015 - 04:39 PM, said:

They weren't a bad team it was conquest and we had a plan, my lance stayed together with a few strays and we caught their assaults spread out and alone in the open. That bit was luck and has everything to do with the win. My KDR in that mech is 1.83, it was over 3 until I played around with an srm build.

Does 4 lrm5s count as a boat, how about with an erlll? I wasn't the only one with ecm or Lrms, had to run a few times, a Timby actual got a few good dumbfire hits on me because a teammate was up my back.
Also I've owned that mech since Sunday and only played 11 matches in it, Didn't even have basic done yet.


Thanks. I was not aware of that rule of thumb, fast 55t are what I like to play, since I got into them it has ruined my Stalkers. For mediums I consider anything under 300 dmg bad. Can't wait to get the Griffs to Master tier, I expect better matches than this.


I can't do the srm thing, once I get on a target its hard to pull back and not just go at them till dead. Lrms give me that little extra range where I can be aggressive and the penalties are not so steep. Try it with 1 erll 4lrm5s and an xl300, play the same way you would the srms but just outside 180m. I play the 2N just like I play the Kintaro, here's a vid that shows what I am talking about.
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__4377688

The 2N might just be my new favorite murder machine, trading 1 erll for an ecm and jumps jets is so worth it. Thats my fav 55t build 2x erll and lrm=20.


I'm not saying the 2N is a bad mech. Far from it. I love mine (running 4xSRM6+A). But InRev's point is correct. A screenshot proves nothing. Every mech in the game is capable of putting up 1000+ damage and multiple kills in the right hands and under the right circumstances.

#48 xe N on

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 10:18 PM

View PostMalleus011, on 29 April 2015 - 09:32 AM, said:

I've been running my 2N with an ERPPC and twin ASRM6 in the right shoulder.


Imho ER-PPCs are just bad weapons if not mounted on super heat quirked mechs like TDR. One ER-PPC does 10 damage. Nothing that would scare anyone, even a light pilot.

Tried to run it with 2 ER-LL and snipe. However, any mech with high mounted hardpoints do a better job, e.g. SHD-2K.

I repeat my self, but putting LRMs on my GRF-2N resulted in scores below 100 damage, because

- there are currently alot of ECM mechs and people know how to use them to protect the team
- people taking cover and don't walk into the open - focused dual gauss and laser vomit will melt your armor even before some LRMs might hit you.
- people can aim and will core you with 50+ laser alpha if you step out of cover with your LRM mech regardless it has ECM or not.
- Everyone using radar deprivation module. Even if you get a lock with direct sight, most mechs will unload their laser vomit and fade back into cover before LRMs will hit.

Currently run my 2N with 4xSRM6+A + 2ML; XL280 ... if my team is pushing, I can do some serious damage. If not, I just sit back and providing ECM. This result in quite inhomogeneous scores, like 400+ and x kills or below 250 and no kills.

My stromcrow has no ECM but is fast and mobile as hell. Radar deprivation keep LRMs away. Using 4 C-ERMLL provide some basic ranged damage. The 4xC-SRM4+A are for closed range combat and can be e.g. replaced against C-SSRM laucher for hunting lights.

Edited by xe N on, 29 April 2015 - 10:34 PM.


#49 oldradagast

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Posted 30 April 2015 - 03:16 AM

The 2N is a beautiful mech - one of the nastiest SRM clouds in the game, backed with ECM on a chassis with good mobility.

#50 Johny Rocket

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Posted 30 April 2015 - 02:10 PM

View PostCrotch RockIt, on 29 April 2015 - 09:16 PM, said:


Can I play? Here's one with the oft-maligned Golden Boy, running LRM5's and MPL's as backup.

Posted Image





I'm not saying the 2N is a bad mech. Far from it. I love mine (running 4xSRM6+A). But InRev's point is correct. A screenshot proves nothing. Every mech in the game is capable of putting up 1000+ damage and multiple kills in the right hands and under the right circumstances.

Awesome match though im not surprised, but it further proves my secondary point, in the right hands Lrms do not suck. KTO 18 is my favorite mech, I run an erll and 5x lrm5.
Not sure every mech in the game is capable of doing 1000+ damage in a match. Some are just to under gunned to do it in the time required if they could engage like that and live.
With a score like that Im sure you use a lot of the same tactics with the KTO. Aside from the 20 I think its one of the best lrm mechs in the game. The 18 and GB are great for exactly what I do in the vid, split thier team and then coral one off alone.
I run the 19 with 2x erll and 4lx rm5s and its just as nasty as the 18, the 2N shares a lot of the same qualities but trades down 1 weapon for the ecm and JJ. I don't need the ecm to dodge lrms It lets me get in positions I couldn't otherwise.

You should try my build on the 2N, play it like the GB. Worst that could happen is you'll have some fun.

View Postxe N on, on 29 April 2015 - 10:18 PM, said:


Imho ER-PPCs are just bad weapons if not mounted on super heat quirked mechs like TDR. One ER-PPC does 10 damage. Nothing that would scare anyone, even a light pilot.

Tried to run it with 2 ER-LL and snipe. However, any mech with high mounted hardpoints do a better job, e.g. SHD-2K.

I repeat my self, but putting LRMs on my GRF-2N resulted in scores below 100 damage, because

- there are currently alot of ECM mechs and people know how to use them to protect the team
- people taking cover and don't walk into the open - focused dual gauss and laser vomit will melt your armor even before some LRMs might hit you.
- people can aim and will core you with 50+ laser alpha if you step out of cover with your LRM mech regardless it has ECM or not.
- Everyone using radar deprivation module. Even if you get a lock with direct sight, most mechs will unload their laser vomit and fade back into cover before LRMs will hit.

Currently run my 2N with 4xSRM6+A + 2ML; XL280 ... if my team is pushing, I can do some serious damage. If not, I just sit back and providing ECM. This result in quite inhomogeneous scores, like 400+ and x kills or below 250 and no kills.

My stromcrow has no ECM but is fast and mobile as hell. Radar deprivation keep LRMs away. Using 4 C-ERMLL provide some basic ranged damage. The 4xC-SRM4+A are for closed range combat and can be e.g. replaced against C-SSRM laucher for hunting lights.

The Stormcrow is a good mech, I don't care for clan mechs, I tried to like them because i did in the pc games. The crow can be built to high damage. You're comparing a 250 year old IS design to a clan invasion mech. Brawling the crow wins, but notice Im not advocating brawling. In my game the crow loses most of the time unless he has friends.

I agree about ERPPC and PPC.

As far as lrms go bring a tag.

Laser vomit is a problem in any mech you run, keep moving to spread it, stay with teammates so their fire is split, and sometimes just take some for the shot.

Did you watch the vid in the link I posted? The 2N plays the same way.

Some people do better with different weapons, to say the mech isnt capable or shouldn't be used for something is just ehh ok, you can only base it on your experience.
I had the exact same thing happen when I tried srms. I only did it twice but yeah enough for me, my opinion srm brawling is a waste of a beautiful sniper and a fast 55t should never be abused like that.

#51 Dawnstealer

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Posted 30 April 2015 - 02:46 PM

Oh, man - with artemis and SRM4s, it's like you're shooting one missile. So beautiful.

#52 Crotch RockIt

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Posted 30 April 2015 - 07:14 PM

View PostTractor Joe, on 30 April 2015 - 02:10 PM, said:

Awesome match though im not surprised, but it further proves my secondary point, in the right hands Lrms do not suck. KTO 18 is my favorite mech, I run an erll and 5x lrm5. Not sure every mech in the game is capable of doing 1000+ damage in a match. Some are just to under gunned to do it in the time required if they could engage like that and live. With a score like that Im sure you use a lot of the same tactics with the KTO. Aside from the 20 I think its one of the best lrm mechs in the game. The 18 and GB are great for exactly what I do in the vid, split thier team and then coral one off alone. I run the 19 with 2x erll and 4lx rm5s and its just as nasty as the 18, the 2N shares a lot of the same qualities but trades down 1 weapon for the ecm and JJ. I don't need the ecm to dodge lrms It lets me get in positions I couldn't otherwise. You should try my build on the 2N, play it like the GB. Worst that could happen is you'll have some fun.


I've seen people put up Locust screenshots with 1000+ damage. The only mech that maybe couldn't do it would be one who's ammo limited, like a Commando.

Anyway, my first build with the 2N was 4xLRM5 and a few lasers. I didn't like it, because the missiles didn't fire fast enough. The Kintaro and Hunchback are much better LRM strikers due to their LRM cooldown quirks. I find that I'm more effective brawling with my 2N, smashing mechs in the face with 24 SRM's. To each his own.

#53 InRev

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Posted 30 April 2015 - 08:58 PM

View PostTractor Joe, on 29 April 2015 - 04:39 PM, said:

Post a scoreboard, that you get to cherry pick, with a score close to that in a 55t IS, I'll give you a 100 dmg handicap, and I'll take it down.


I don't play 55-tonners. How about I even give myself a 5 ton handicap with a 50-tonner instead?

Spoiler


Obligatory 1000 damage match (low kills though)

Spoiler


Or maybe a Tier 4 40-tonner?

Spoiler


How about a 40-tonner with just one damn gun?

Spoiler


I can do this forever, you know, with Hunchbacks, Enforcers, Ravens, Cicadas, you name it. It's not hard to put up decent numbers, even with awful mechs like the X5 or Cicada-3C.

Thus, if you're going to use a screenshot of a single match to try to prove a point (ie: the fallacy of cherry picking), the match you exhibit better not be a mediocre one, the likes of which any decent medium jock gets regularly.

#54 Donnerkeil666

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Posted 07 May 2015 - 11:16 PM

The 2N is my favorite brawler right now (4x srm4-A, 2ML). I had my first ever >1200 damage match (5 kills) with it. And that's not a fluke, I consistently do above average damage with it. 9$ well spent!

Edited by Donnerkeil666, 07 May 2015 - 11:20 PM.


#55 xe N on

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Posted 08 May 2015 - 11:42 PM

I have quite the opposite experience with 2N, for me it is quite underpferoming. It might be a good brawler ... however, I my PUG games there is no brawl. Everything is about packing as much large laser as you can.

I rarely see mediums mediums in my PUG games anyway ... and if it is most likely a SCR or some super quirked IS medium.

Edited by xe N on, 08 May 2015 - 11:57 PM.


#56 eFTy

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 01:32 AM

I absolutely love this mech. I barely got it speed tweaked (played one game since then) and the stats are well above my average: 2 W/L, 2.2 K/D, 257 avg damage (this could use a boost, but that'll come once I'm done with the elite skills).

Hosing people with chainfired LRM5s is often ineffective, but SOOO fun. I think I'll end up selling the 3M, it has nothing I can't get from either Sparky or the 2N...

#57 Barkem Squirrel

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 09:55 AM

View PosteFTy, on 11 May 2015 - 01:32 AM, said:

I absolutely love this mech. I barely got it speed tweaked (played one game since then) and the stats are well above my average: 2 W/L, 2.2 K/D, 257 avg damage (this could use a boost, but that'll come once I'm done with the elite skills).

Hosing people with chainfired LRM5s is often ineffective, but SOOO fun. I think I'll end up selling the 3M, it has nothing I can't get from either Sparky or the 2N...


Just remember that the speed of the missiles is 176 not the 160 that is normal. then the spread is less focused at -5%. So add Artemis and TAG and get more focus out of the LRMs. Remember that everyone was screaming when the speed got buffed to 170 and you are just a bit more than that now. As for lay out, the 3M can dead side better than the 2N. Then the 2N has that visually seen launcher on the left torso that just screams hit me, I have ECM. I am guilty of targeting the left torso with LL's just due to that.

You have just the idea I was thinking of, time to Troll people with LRM 5's. I have those days from time to time with the jenner oxide.

I'm just waiting to get it for C-bills. Why, I have an affinity for the griffins, and that is playing the game at 9 to 16 fps depending on the map. Imagine what I could do with 30 fps or more.

October 24-27th 2014 Chassis Challenge
GRIFFIN

# Pilot Score
1 Odwalla 2,225
2 Maverix 2,118
3 Teliri 2,044
4 Darranthius 2,026
5 MaxFool 1,992
6 Barkem Squirrel 1,920

Edited by Barkem Squirrel, 11 May 2015 - 10:02 AM.


#58 eFTy

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 12:15 AM

I always carry TAG when relying on LRMs, there's just too much ECM out there (ironic, isn't it?)...

Artemis is a waste of tonnage on LRM5, though. They already hit mostly on the CT, even when fired as a volley.

I also have an ERLL for long range poking. Played with an LPL too, and it was much better for close defense, but the range was lacking and it ate into my ammo tonnage. Tried PPCs too but my aim sucks and it was too hot...

I also think that -5% spread quirk is actually a positive one, i.e. they spread 5% less. Just like cooldown (yes, PGI kinda suck at offering clear information...). At least it feels this way compared to the 3M.

#59 Zuri Prime

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 09:56 AM

View PostBarkem Squirrel, on 11 May 2015 - 09:55 AM, said:


Just remember that the speed of the missiles is 176 not the 160 that is normal. then the spread is less focused at -5%. So add Artemis and TAG and get more focus out of the LRMs. Remember that everyone was screaming when the speed got buffed to 170 and you are just a bit more than that now. As for lay out, the 3M can dead side better than the 2N. Then the 2N has that visually seen launcher on the left torso that just screams hit me, I have ECM. I am guilty of targeting the left torso with LL's just due to that.

You have just the idea I was thinking of, time to Troll people with LRM 5's. I have those days from time to time with the jenner oxide.

I'm just waiting to get it for C-bills. Why, I have an affinity for the griffins, and that is playing the game at 9 to 16 fps depending on the map. Imagine what I could do with 30 fps or more.

October 24-27th 2014 Chassis Challenge
GRIFFIN

# Pilot Score
1 Odwalla 2,225
2 Maverix 2,118
3 Teliri 2,044
4 Darranthius 2,026
5 MaxFool 1,992
6 Barkem Squirrel 1,920

Posted Image

Did you use LRMs? Because I chance blitz it as a 3M with SRMs. That challenge boiled down to who got the luckiest, essentially. Nowadays the 3M just doesn't seem to do it anymore for me.

#60 grendeldog

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 01:25 PM

So Metamechs has the 2N as a Tier 1 mech for close in work. Their build has 4 SRM-4s with Artemis and 2 ML... with an XL300 engine.

I got all of 98 damage with this build the first time I took it out. Now, granted, it was on Tourmaline on skirmish mode - not exactly a short ranged map (unless on conquest mode in which case a brawl is virtually guaranteed). But I just don't see how you can run a medium class squishiness-level SRM brawler with an XL engine. When I ran the 2N stock I almost always lost first the arms and then both torsos before dying, and thus managed to keep up my damage output almost to the last second. But with an XL that means a death sentence.

So are they just smoking something powerful over at MetaMechs or is there something I'm missing regarding this build?





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