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#1 Mcgral18

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 10:08 PM

The PUG LIFE can be a strange experience.

From what I've seen, the norm is half the team failing to get 200 damage; whether in an Assault or Light mech.


How common is this? Because it's every other round when I play.
Whether stomping

Posted Image

Or being stomped
Posted Image


It seems there's an overwhelming portion of the community who cannot deal 200 damage.
I did very mediocre in the above, but I'm still levelling the new robot.

I can give a pass to sub 30 ton mechs, as they commonly get instagibbed...but how do Whales, who can deal over 50 damage in a alpha strike, fail to get 200 damage?

They only need to shoot 4 times, or just 3 in many cases.



Is my PUG LIFE experience worse than others, or is ~half the team generally around that mark?

Edited by Mcgral18, 27 April 2015 - 08:41 PM.


#2 Alistair Winter

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 10:32 PM

We should ask this guy:

Posted Image

I have my fair share of sub 200 matches, even though I don't think I'm a bad player. In the pug queue, you are at the mercy of the gods, because sometimes you may make a bold move and your team retreats at the first sign of trouble, leaving you pinned down and surrounded. Other times, your teammates make bold (i.e. stupid) moves, often in multiple directions, and after their prompt destruction, you are outnumbered. Unless you've got a build that can vomit out 200 damage in 20 seconds when you hit the Override button, you'll probably be gang stabbed and killed before you can do too much. The YLW can do awesome amounts of damage over time, for example. But when you gang up on a lone YLW, it rarely does much damage before it's put down.

Sometimes the team chooses an approach which is an extremely bad matchup for your build too. They may decide to snipe when you're in an SPL Nova, and most of them die before you even get in range. Or they may decide to brawl in the entrances to Mount Doom in Terra Therma, and then your gauss Jager is stuck in the back without a clear line of sight. Do you flank alone or do you wait and see if your pug teammates can finally summon the testicular fortitude to make a push? Either way, there's a chance you'll die alone.

When you're looking at individual matches, I don't think it's fair to use a single metric to measure a player's skills. But if a player consistently scores less than 200 damage over time, then he's obviously a bad player.

Even high damage isn't a very meaningful statistic, sometimes. In pug matches, you often see selfish players who let their teammates take all the risks. This can be detrimental over time, but it will sometimes put them in a position where they're the only healthy mech at the end of the match. And then they rack up 4 kills and 400 damage by just running straight at heavily damaged targets, and everyone congratulates them on saving the match. Particularly common for assault mechs who refuse to put themselves in danger.

TL;DR. Without public Elo or any other sort of ranking system, I find it easier and less stressful to just assume that I'm a lot better than average and it's rarely my fault when I get a bad score.

#3 CocoaJin

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 10:35 PM

Simple bell curve, half the player base is going to be below the 50 percentile mark(teh suck line), easily 2/3 of "teh suck" will sit approximatly within the 30-50th percentile.

Easily half of the better than "teh suck" will sit close to "teh suck" line and not be much better than "teh sucks" on the other side of "teh suck" line...frankly, most of us sit closer to "teh sucks" than we do the "Pros" residing in the top 85-99th percentile(though we will never admit it or accept it).

So what am I getting at? It's totally unreasonable and a waste of breathe to complain about or expect not to have to endure low performing players for all kinds of reasons(lack of skill, leveling, bad luck, lack of effort, poor computer performance, etc). Accept them, cant everybody be All-Stars....every battlefield has fodder.



#4 Mystere

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 10:40 PM

Those are stomps in 5 minutes or less. It means many died quickly. As such, what else did you expect?

#5 Mcgral18

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 10:54 PM

View PostMystere, on 24 April 2015 - 10:40 PM, said:

Those are stomps in 5 minutes or less. It means many died quickly. As such, what else did you expect?


Maybe for the TimberGods to beat the basic'ed 45 ton robot...

That's a reasonable expectation, no? (unless it's the trial, I suppose)

#6 Deathlike

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 12:18 AM

Well.. I have 3 things to say...

1) When you primarily play in groups, you get inflated Elo that doesn't always match with the solo queue in trying to balance stuff...

This means that your Elo suggests you'd have to carry 2-3... possibly a whole team to the top of Mt. Tryhard.

*insert "I'm having fun" meme here*


2) Part of the nature of the game in a roflstomp is that the game tends to work like an avalanche... that often the first couple kills determine the fate of the match. This isn't always true, but it's true more often than not. Sometimes this produces sloppy play on the part of the "supposedly winning team" when they head towards a loss. Inevitably, fate and luck punishes you both ways (you can occasionally do nothing and win, and yet do everything and still lose).


3) Build effectiveness is key. This means that not only that your build has to be meta-favorable (the mech doesn't have to be meta) AND you play it correctly... usually that allows for success.

The problem though is that many people are trying out... completely unoptimized, and rarely understanding weapon synergy. So, a lot of bad things tends to happen... sometimes it is mitigated by enemy involvement (like, actually running from LRMs) and it's hard to predict player behavior from grouping up... sometimes people simply can't/won't push and sometimes that standoff works in your favor.


So... I dunno... that's why I avoid PUG life unless I'm willing to suffer... if just for even double XP for the day.

#7 Sarlic

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 12:58 AM

Been noticing this for a while too.

Really getting on my nerves, the poor amount of teamwork that is.

#8 Elizander

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 01:05 AM

View PostMcgral18, on 24 April 2015 - 10:08 PM, said:

The PUG LIFE can be a strange experience.

From what I've seen, the norm is half the team failing to get 200 damage; whether in an Assault or Light mech.


How common is this? Because it's every other round when I play.
Whether stomping

Posted Image

Or being stomped
Posted Image


It seems there's an overwhelming portion of the community who cannot deal 200 damage.
I did very mediocre in the above, but I'm still levelling the new robot.

I can give a pass to sub 30 ton mechs, as they commonly get instagibbed...but how to Whales, who can deal over 50 damage in a alpha strike, fail to get 200 damage?

They only need to shoot 4 times, or just 3 in many cases.



Is my PUG LIFE experience worse than others, or is ~half the team generally around that mark?


It's very common since good players are matched with not-so-good players to balance out the teams. Sometimes people have off days, rounding a corner and getting blown up in seconds. Sometimes people try to help out and get shot, sometimes people follow the assault who has no clue how to play and they die.

I also notice a lot of players don't modify the sensitivity slider of MWO (which I feel is too high by default) and they can't keep a laser on target, ever.

Edited by Elizander, 25 April 2015 - 01:10 AM.


#9 STEF_

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 01:06 AM

View PostMcgral18, on 24 April 2015 - 10:08 PM, said:

The PUG LIFE can be a strange experience.

From what I've seen, the norm is half the team failing to get 200 damage; whether in an Assault or Light mech.


How common is this? Because it's every other round when I play.
Whether stomping

Posted Image

Or being stomped
Posted Image


It seems there's an overwhelming portion of the community who cannot deal 200 damage.
I did very mediocre in the above, but I'm still levelling the new robot.

I can give a pass to sub 30 ton mechs, as they commonly get instagibbed...but how to Whales, who can deal over 50 damage in a alpha strike, fail to get 200 damage?

They only need to shoot 4 times, or just 3 in many cases.



Is my PUG LIFE experience worse than others, or is ~half the team generally around that mark?


That's why I use Puglandia as a goldmine, for farming or levelling.
But if I want to have fun and interesting matches..... --> group or CW with my team.

#10 Weeny Machine

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 01:11 AM

I wondered about similar things. My team got rolled and I looked at the damage numbers...

DWs, Stalkers etc with 30-100ish damage (no typo). I mean, ok, one of those guys can have a really bad moment and walk into a barrage and gets instant gibbed or killed by a light while being careless...but not 3 or 4 assaults.

I think I can achieve that while controlling my mech with my **** (and no, sorry, I won't post a vide to prove it ;) ).

Edited by Bush Hopper, 25 April 2015 - 01:11 AM.


#11 Sarlic

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 01:18 AM

Spoiler


Look at those numbers and battle time. And the amount of pilots with no unit. The other team didn't had much either.

I had 10 team members who didnt break the 200 damage. 10(!).

This is exceptional bad. Ouch. ha.

Edited by Sarlic, 25 April 2015 - 01:21 AM.


#12 Elizander

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 01:21 AM

View PostSarlic, on 25 April 2015 - 01:18 AM, said:

Spoiler


Look at those numbers and battle time. And the amount of pilots with no unit. The other team didn't had much either.

I had 10 team members who didnt break the 200 damage. 10(!).

This is exceptional bad. Ouch. ha.


Could be a 2800 elo player with a bunch of cadets. That's how MM rolls. :lol:

#13 Sarlic

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 01:23 AM

View PostElizander, on 25 April 2015 - 01:21 AM, said:


Could be a 2800 elo player with a bunch of cadets. That's how MM rolls. :lol:

Well that whole match...was just...weird. Like everyone was new. Both opposite and team members. Everyone stood still in the middle of river.

Never experienced this bad before.

Edited by Sarlic, 25 April 2015 - 01:23 AM.


#14 Elizander

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 01:26 AM

View PostSarlic, on 25 April 2015 - 01:23 AM, said:

Well that whole match...was just...weird. Like everyone was new. Both opposite and team members. Everyone stood still in the middle of river.

Never experienced this bad before.


It happens. It was specifically mentioned by PGI on one of the podcasts that this is how it works. If you are super high ELO and not enough of you are around, you will get put with a team of newbs/bads to balance it out with the other team.

It doesn't have to be super high ELO either. It depends on what's available. It might be there are 2-4 average players and a bunch of newbs/bads so MM puts 1-2 decent guys on each team and fills the rest out with coleslaw dressing.

Edited by Elizander, 25 April 2015 - 01:26 AM.


#15 Aramoro999

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 01:26 AM

View PostMcgral18, on 24 April 2015 - 10:08 PM, said:

The PUG LIFE can be a strange experience.

From what I've seen, the norm is half the team failing to get 200 damage; whether in an Assault or Light mech.


How common is this? Because it's every other round when I play.
Whether stomping

Posted Image

Or being stomped
Posted Image


It seems there's an overwhelming portion of the community who cannot deal 200 damage.
I did very mediocre in the above, but I'm still levelling the new robot.

I can give a pass to sub 30 ton mechs, as they commonly get instagibbed...but how to Whales, who can deal over 50 damage in a alpha strike, fail to get 200 damage?

They only need to shoot 4 times, or just 3 in many cases.



Is my PUG LIFE experience worse than others, or is ~half the team generally around that mark?

They all drunk, happens.
...or new guys, first day of mechwarrior...

Edited by Aramoro999, 25 April 2015 - 01:27 AM.


#16 Sandersson Jankins

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 02:52 AM

Well, usually they won't have a chance to fire 3-4 alphas. These are generally very newer players (or maybe drunk, although alcohol is a performance-enhancing drug for me), and their main flaw is positioning. They're used to other games where you aren't obliged to stick with the team. You can perform a sniper sort of role by yourself, or a lone-dog behind enemy lines.

You can't do that in this game, not without being a veteran player with a good amount of skill. They'll end up being shot at by 10 mechs at a time, dying, and not knowing what happened. They literally do not understand that they just took an action that directly led to their death. Instead, they're likely to think that the game sucks, or that the enemy gear is OP.

And furthermore, there don't seem to be many players willing to help them out in solo queue! There are a few that will complain, say "omg my team" like they're tweens playing LoL or something.

Christ guys, you literally have no right to complain about poor teammates unless you're trying to help them in each game that they appear.

If they don't listen to you, you DO have a right to complain. Although, complaining is useless apart from perhaps making you feel a bit better in the short-term.

I understand it is difficult to care enough about normal solo queue games to teach, or even try to lead a team. I don't do it all the time. But I do it far more than other people...and I'd only have to do it 1/3 of the games I play to say that.

Help the pugs! Yes, ideally they should read the forums, ask for advice, and generally become acquainted with the game themselves.

But they probably won't! This is the age of games where you aren't forced to do that, and we can't do much about it.

We can't do much besides catalyzing the change we wish to see in players that play this game.

And that can yield forking amazing results...if people would do it!

Edited by Sandersson Jankins, 25 April 2015 - 02:53 AM.


#17 Telmasa

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Posted 27 April 2015 - 06:59 PM

I think it's actually got alot to do with map design.

All our maps are focused around forced chokepoints. Even Caustic Valley & Alpine Peaks just have a centralized mountain that pretty much forgoes the rest of the maps.

When every match devolves into either a chokepoint brawl or a nascar chase through said chokepoints, it then becomes pretty obvious that most games are going to wildly swing one way or the other, because there's no other options. There's no flexibility or variety available when the maps are so limiting.


I'd bet player skill discrepancies would drop considerably if maps were bigger, rounder, more spread out, and smoothed (both vertically and horizontally speaking).

Edited by Telmasa, 27 April 2015 - 07:00 PM.


#18 InspectorG

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Posted 27 April 2015 - 07:28 PM

View PostMcgral18, on 24 April 2015 - 10:08 PM, said:


Is my PUG LIFE experience worse than others, or is ~half the team generally around that mark?


Lots of this this weekend.

Welcome to ELO hell.

And many of the um, eh, not bads, went to go wait in line for CW.

Needless to say, first team up 3-4 mechs usually wins

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#19 Ultimax

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Posted 27 April 2015 - 07:42 PM

View PostMcgral18, on 24 April 2015 - 10:08 PM, said:

Is my PUG LIFE experience worse than others, or is ~half the team generally around that mark?


It feels like this, with these big win streaks and loss streaks.


This weekend during the event has been particularly bad, as so many players have been drained from the solo queue and funneled into CW.


I think I had a string of like 8 matches on Friday night where 3 or 4 guys from my team would just evaporate on contact with the enemy, or the team would head in a bad direction even if I begged them not to.


Some of those stomps were so bad, by the time I got to the enemy my side was outnumbered 2 or 3 to 1 vs. almost totally fresh mechs.


The wins were basically the same except I was on the luck side.

#20 Burktross

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Posted 27 April 2015 - 07:44 PM

View PostMcgral18, on 24 April 2015 - 10:54 PM, said:


Maybe for the TimberGods to beat the basic'ed 45 ton robot...

That's a reasonable expectation, no? (unless it's the trial, I suppose)

Don't diss my Anti-meta Vindicator Stock+

Edited by Burktross, 27 April 2015 - 07:50 PM.






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