24 replies to this topic

[Solahma]

XphR, on 28 April 2015 - 02:50 PM, said:

Abuse of information by way of visuals uncompromised by screen shake from jumping and incoming fire. Those impulses are there not just to sway the accuracy of fire but to intentionally obscure vision.

My argument was indeed what seemed you asked for... ..I am only attempting to inform you of some of the possible reasons this sort of thing is very likely to not happen in such a fashion (pointing out the negatives of your request is indeed a very necessary part of such[Thus is the role of Devils Advocate]). As well as where it is likely to appear and for what reasons. In the public areas you must work with what you have been given to work with, it is limited in specific ways for various reasons regardless of willingness to pay cash. In the private areas they have shown that they are far more lenient on what will or could be offered.

I have seen a lance of four locust.. and they ate a few assaults like a crop with no repellant. I am not even saying I would not enjoy footage pulled from such a mech.. Just pointing out that even without ECM, AMS or TAG, some of the reasons it is not likely to manifest. If it was to make it into the game you would most certainly see a swath of complaint threads form followed by the "Refund or Remove" posters and the "Now I dont have any reason to live" hyperbole crews.

It would never be as bad as introducing third person view. Honestly I don't believe there would be nearly as much lash-back from the community as you might think. Some will probably question "why" but past that, there is really no point. The majority would understand it's intention and why it has been added into the game. IMO it would be a very nice gesture from PGI to acknowledge its content creators with a release of such a mech specifically for them.

I'm sorry, I know you are playing devil's advocate here, but saying that the removal of cockpit shake from a mech with no weapons is not abuse, it's balance. There is no advantage here to be abused. If there is, please clarify. Altering a players visual for any reason other than effecting it's accuracy is purely for immersion. A person filming isn't trying to get immersion, he is simply trying to film what is happening around them.

I am glad you guys are picking at the idea, ideas like this need to be poked and proded. But I have yet to hear a valid counter argument or reason why this is a terrible idea. The overwhelming majority of players wouldn't even bat an eye, it doesn't effect them in any way. This would be a rather tremendous help for the few of use actually willing to create content for this game though. It is a special mech, that will still create revenue, that will also help create content and advertisement for the game, thus more revenue. It's a win-win all around. The mech cannot be abused due to in-game mechanics, it still supports the team with AMS, ECM, and TAG, and it will allow for a much easier and enjoyable process of gathering footage in addition to features that are not currently available in any shape or form.

bad arcade kitty, on 28 April 2015 - 02:56 PM, said:

also i heard that some people accidentally entered in the free camera mode by a bug so it seems it's already made and is just turned off

This can never be considered an official means and is exploitation. Frequently and intentional triggering this exploit would more-than-likely result in a ban.

Edited by Solahma, 28 April 2015 - 03:20 PM.

[XphR]

Solahma, on 28 April 2015 - 03:15 PM, said:

I'm sorry, I know you are playing devil's advocate here, but saying that the removal of cockpit shake from a mech with no weapons is not abuse, it's balance. There is no advantage here to be abused. If there is, please clarify. Altering a players visual for any reason other than effecting it's accuracy is purely for immersion. A person filming isn't trying to get immersion, he is simply trying to film what is happening around them.

I am glad you guys are picking at the idea, ideas like this need to be poked and proded. But I have yet to hear a valid counter argument or reason why this is a terrible idea. The overwhelming majority of players wouldn't even bat an eye, it doesn't effect them in any way. This would be a rather tremendous help for the few of use actually willing to create content for this game though. It is a special mech, that will still create revenue, that will also help create content and advertisement for the game, thus more revenue. It's a win-win all around. The mech cannot be abused due to in-game mechanics, it still supports the team with AMS, ECM, and TAG, and it will allow for a much easier and enjoyable process of gathering footage in addition to features that are not currently available in any shape or form.

bad arcade kitty, on 28 April 2015 - 02:56 PM, said:

also i heard that some people accidentally entered in the free camera mode by a bug so it seems it's already made and is just turned off

This can never be considered an official means and is exploitation. Frequently and intentional triggering this exploit would more-than-likely result in a ban.

It is difficult to clarify beyond perhaps adding in a comma or two I missed. But, I will attempt to do both.

Abuse of information,

by way of visuals, uncompromised by screen shake from jumping and incoming fire

Those impulses are there not just to sway the accuracy of fire but to intentionally obscure vision.

^What this means is visual information is power. Any means to bypass obfuscation can and will be used abusively by some parties. Some people will even relay as much information as is possible after death using the spinning death cam. It is one reason the dead should not be able to speak with the living(nullified by external VOIP[That was actually part of the downfall of ChromeHounds{PreXbox Party the players had to establish lines of communication to stay effective|PostParty that aspect was no longer necessary. Freeing up tonnage on some Hounds and nullifying an entire class of Hound for those that used it}]).

I personally believe that part of the reason why you are forced back into dropping in CW. To prevent further opportunity to continue relaying up to date information on your location of death. I am sorry if you do not see the advantage of information warfare but, there are people that would see and use it as a tool for such(regardless of your intended use of the feature). By making it an MC only purchase, you would invite the rabid PTW crowd to have a foothold. You have failed to understand a valid counter argument but indeed a valid counter argument has been stated.

While you are correct that the use of triggering the spectator cam by way of exploit could be Bannable. Bad Arcade Kitty I believe was just pointing to their own belief of a system of such already being coded into the game. This is also true as it is used for promotional material generation and official venue use.

Edited by XphR, 28 April 2015 - 06:55 PM.

[Solahma]

XphR, on 28 April 2015 - 06:54 PM, said:

It is difficult to clarify beyond perhaps adding in a comma or two I missed. But, I will attempt to do both.

Abuse of information,

by way of visuals, uncompromised by screen shake from jumping and incoming fire

Those impulses are there not just to sway the accuracy of fire but to intentionally obscure vision.

^What this means is visual information is power. Any means to bypass obfuscation can and will be used abusively by some parties.

If that is the only issue with this idea then I'll take it. If you believe that is a serious problem, then I don't know what to say other than: It's not. There is NO advantage being able to see a target clearly while under-fire and not being able to return fire yourself. You can't stand still and get hit by projectiles because your mech WILL be destroyed in only a few seconds. Jump Jet screenshake was ONLY implimented to reduce visuals and accuracy for pop-tarting. Not that it was used as a primary means of gathering information. You can still, and have always been able to jump and see clear enough to get all the information that is needed to give your team. As well, if you are under-fire, and your vision is obscured due to projectile screenshake, you are still able to see what's going on and convey information to your team, this would NOT effect that ability in any way. You can already do it. There is no advantage there, it is a false belief. I agree with what you say concerning visual data being an important part of the game, but the CURRENT system already allows visuals to be used 99% of the time to share information with the team. Cockpit shake has little to no impact on this information gathering. Explosion effects have a MUCH greater impact on the ability to gather visual data, NOT cockpit shake. In addition, the only measurably important time cockpit shake has an impact is when the mech has weapons to return fire. TAG and beam weapons aren't really effected by this and any decent player can still shoot them accurately while their cockpit is being shook up by projectiles.

abuse in this fashion is a NON-issue. It doesn't create this "GOD scouting mech" simply because it isn't effected by screenshake. If a scouting light mech is HIT by projectiles to begin with, it is already in trouble and no longer going to be scouting or spotting. Instead, it's going to be maneuvering and using cover. Cockpit shake doesn't effect a light mech's ability to scout in any practical way. It's simply a mechanic to diminish return fire, something this proposed mech does not have the ability to do.

The impact of screenshake from stray projectiles is much more noticeable when you are STRICTLY concerned with visuals. Like, you know, when you are RECORDING something and any slight/miniscule nudge will screw up an entire shot. THAT is where any measurable impact is. Impulse does NOT effect information gathering nearly as much as you propose. You can accept that same slight/miniscule nudge and still see visuals perfectly fine in order to share information with the team. Removing cockpit shake would have only the very slightest impact to such gameplay. It is not an advantage that can be abused in any way that makes such a weapon-less mech justifiable or exploitable. You can keep saying it does, but in reality, it is only speculation and not valid for true gameplay and REAL situations. There are plenty more unique mechs that have their own, unique, "exploitation". The community is sooner to complain about a lance of Huginn absolutely destroying a heavy/assualt lance before they would complain about a Spider clone with no cockpit shake.

I'll be record footage illustrating the difficulties of recording in MWO to further support this idea. Examples of cockpit shake making shots impossible, especially with clan ballistics now in the game. I will also take out the Spider-5D with just ECM and TAG to illustrate how cockpit shake does not have any impact on it's role.

[Solahma]

Suggestion from Soy for a more immersive answer for a mech platform: the Ambassador

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Ambassador

[Ialdabaoth]

If you want a camera mech, just use the Ostscout.

It's basically a Spider-5V with an ECM package and only a single energy hardpoint in its CT.

Edited by Ialdabaoth, 30 April 2015 - 10:10 AM.