41 replies to this topic

[pbiggz]

disclaimer: I am not opposed to raising OGEN and Omega HP just to make them a little more resilient. CW does need more depth and objectives should matter more.

But with regards to this talking point about needing to nerf light rushes because they're overpowered.

It's fictional.

Like LRM boating, light rushing is a legitimate, but bad tactic, which relies on your opponent not knowing how to counter.

Since the majority of players now know how to counter (marik and davion and maybe clan wolf pugs are the exception), light rushing stopped being an issue, or a talking point, a long time ago, which is why the only people who bother to talk about it now are the people who it works against. People who don't know how to counter it, or can't, because they brought LRMs to a match.

(Spoiler alert, you counter light rushes by shooting legs, its very easy, unless you have LRMs or flamers).

So lets all agree, the light rush boogie man doesn't exist. It works on disorganized pugs who have never seen it before, or dont know how to shoot legs, but against any kind of group or half group, its entirely useless. A waste of 12 good mechs you could have used to fight and make money.

Edited by pbiggz, 23 April 2015 - 11:10 AM.

[Mystere]

pbiggz, on 23 April 2015 - 11:09 AM, said:

disclaimer: I am not opposed to raising OGEN and Omega HP just to make them a little more resilient.

Well, I am. If light rushes are really not a problem, why even change any HP at all? Change for change's sake?

[pbiggz]

Mystere, on 23 April 2015 - 11:11 AM, said:

Well, I am. If light rushes are really not a problem, why even change any HP at all? Change for change's sake?

pretty much. Objectives should matter. They shouldn't be an afterthought.

[Screech]

I just avoid any planets that have a group doing rushes. Games aren't worth it, time is better spent elsewhere.

[pbiggz]

Screech, on 23 April 2015 - 11:31 AM, said:

I just avoid any planets that have a group doing rushes. Games aren't worth it, time is better spent elsewhere.

Aim for legs, you'll make a lot of money. Or, if you're clan, bring some streak boats. (2 out of 12 is enough to absolutely ruin a light rush).

[Dawnstealer]

pbiggz, on 23 April 2015 - 11:57 AM, said:

Aim for legs, you'll make a lot of money. Or, if you're clan, bring some streak boats. (2 out of 12 is enough to absolutely ruin a light rush).

This - a Streakcrow/dog can one-shot just about any light.

[Artax33]

I bring a streakcrow every CW drop for this reason. We stopped a light rush to omega at the end of a match vs BWC, clans have a better time with light rushes then IS. Come this fall when the Arctic Cheetah drops for cbills this might be a little bit bigger problem for the IS who only have ssrm 2.

[anonymous161]

The streak crow is very good at striking a lot of damage at once, it's only weakness is ammo, and you wont know when you will need the crow it's a risk.

[pbiggz]

Artax33, on 23 April 2015 - 12:12 PM, said:

I bring a streakcrow every CW drop for this reason. We stopped a light rush to omega at the end of a match vs BWC, clans have a better time with light rushes then IS. Come this fall when the Arctic Cheetah drops for cbills this might be a little bit bigger problem for the IS who only have ssrm 2.

Wont be an issue because even better than streak crows is just learning to shoot legs. You use streak boats until you are confident you can leg a light with any weapon (LRMs and Flamers not included) and then you dont need a streak boat anymore.

[Gas Guzzler]

Artax33, on 23 April 2015 - 12:12 PM, said:

I bring a streakcrow every CW drop for this reason. We stopped a light rush to omega at the end of a match vs BWC, clans have a better time with light rushes then IS. Come this fall when the Arctic Cheetah drops for cbills this might be a little bit bigger problem for the IS who only have ssrm 2.

It makes more sense to just shoot the legs with direct fire weapons in the case of the IS.

[Valar13]

pbiggz, on 23 April 2015 - 11:09 AM, said:

disclaimer: I am not opposed to raising OGEN and Omega HP just to make them a little more resilient. CW does need more depth and objectives should matter more.

But with regards to this talking point about needing to nerf light rushes because they're overpowered.

It's fictional.

Like LRM boating, light rushing is a legitimate, but bad tactic, which relies on your opponent not knowing how to counter.

Since the majority of players now know how to counter (marik and davion and maybe clan wolf pugs are the exception), light rushing stopped being an issue, or a talking point, a long time ago, which is why the only people who bother to talk about it now are the people who it works against. People who don't know how to counter it, or can't, because they brought LRMs to a match.

(Spoiler alert, you counter light rushes by shooting legs, its very easy, unless you have LRMs or flamers).

So lets all agree, the light rush boogie man doesn't exist. It works on disorganized pugs who have never seen it before, or dont know how to shoot legs, but against any kind of group or half group, its entirely useless. A waste of 12 good mechs you could have used to fight and make money.

Again, I don't know what Mariks people are fighting but we DO know how to counter it, and only kept relying on it for so long because a lot of the people we were fighting somehow didn't.

[Mystere]

Screech, on 23 April 2015 - 11:31 AM, said:

I just avoid any planets that have a group doing rushes. Games aren't worth it, time is better spent elsewhere.

How can you tell short of wading into them first?

[Davegt27]

Quote

Since the majority of players now know how to counter (marik and davion and maybe clan wolf pugs are the exception),

Pow!

[Screech]

Mystere, on 23 April 2015 - 12:27 PM, said:

How can you tell short of wading into them first?

Yes it is a reactive step. I just make sure I don't re-queue on planets where a large group is doing it. Not many of the large groups need to do it so it is pretty rare.

[Davers]

I like how light mechs are actually useful and not just 'deck filler'. But I also like brawling. I am pretty torn on the whole issue.

[Romeo Deluxe]

Marik (at this time) solo pugger reporting that I have rarely seen a Light Rush. Even rarer have participated in one. Only reason I participated is because I happen to drop a light deck and one was being called for.

My personal view on CW is that organized units jumped ahead in tactics and that mostly/partial solo droppers are lagging behind. What I like about my light deck is that I'm constantly scouting out and noting the organized units tactics. Eventually, to some degree, the pugger's will catch on how to coordinate and predict opponents tactics. Perhaps never as good as a really organized unit, but I have already seen some surprises meted out.

[pbiggz]

The takeaway from this thread is that there will always be good strategies, and those strategies may not always be the same.

Players must be quick to learn how to counter those strategies, NOT quick to jump on the forums and cry about it.
When you cry about it russ hears you, and thinks there's a problem where there is no problem. I heard talk of this 1/1/1/1 business and thats literally cancer for this game, and the ONLY reason russ is playing with that idea is someone whispered into his ear that light rushes were somehow too broken, or too good. (they are neither broken, nor good).

Instead of jumping on the forum and crying when you lose, learn something, and up your game.

[Carpenocturn]

pbiggz, on 23 April 2015 - 11:09 AM, said:

disclaimer: I am not opposed to raising OGEN and Omega HP just to make them a little more resilient. CW does need more depth and objectives should matter more.

But with regards to this talking point about needing to nerf light rushes because they're overpowered.

It's fictional.

Like LRM boating, light rushing is a legitimate, but bad tactic, which relies on your opponent not knowing how to counter.

Since the majority of players now know how to counter (marik and davion and maybe clan wolf pugs are the exception), light rushing stopped being an issue, or a talking point, a long time ago, which is why the only people who bother to talk about it now are the people who it works against. People who don't know how to counter it, or can't, because they brought LRMs to a match.

(Spoiler alert, you counter light rushes by shooting legs, its very easy, unless you have LRMs or flamers).

So lets all agree, the light rush boogie man doesn't exist. It works on disorganized pugs who have never seen it before, or dont know how to shoot legs, but against any kind of group or half group, its entirely useless. A waste of 12 good mechs you could have used to fight and make money.

Lets look at how inaccurate these claims may be shall we?

light rushing is a legitimate, but bad tactic
Bearing that in mind you contradict yourself by saying,
So lets all agree, the light rush boogie man doesn't exist.
So.....it does exist? or not?
But with regards to this talking point about needing to nerf light rushes because they're overpowered.
It's fictional.
Nearly lost now

light rushing stopped being an issue, or a talking point, a long time ago,
I believe it stopped being a talking point once Russ aknowledged it was an issue and was being looked at.

(Spoiler alert, you counter light rushes by shooting legs, its very easy, unless you have LRMs or flamers).
If it was easy to leg lights they wouldn't be played now would they? Yes you can do it and with practice you get better at it, but it is not "Easy" in the same way as targeting a large mass like a torso.

Since the majority of players now know how to counter (marik and davion and maybe clan wolf pugs are the exception)
[REDACTED]

Edited by Stickjock, 27 April 2015 - 07:59 AM.
unconstructive

[Carpenocturn]

Quote

Its really not hard to shoot lights in the legs which is why more and more teams are fielding no lights. If you weren't one of the players who pretends its overpowered then you'd know that, but for christ's sake your clan! If you've had a bad time with light rushes just bring a damned streak crow!

Indeed, I should remember. Everytime I bring a Streakcrow they are using a light rush. And whenever they are using a light rush I am in my streakcrow.
Because it displays what mechs they are taking before each wave.

I have fired 7 Mpulse from a T-bolt into a Ravens leg, 2 nights ago, both of us stationary at less than 100m and it turned the armor yellow. Hitreg is far more powerful than legitimate tactics.

[Mystere]

pbiggz, on 23 April 2015 - 03:40 PM, said:

Instead of jumping on the forum and crying when you lose, learn something, and up your game.

Learn? But that's just too hard?