183 replies to this topic

[Panzerkampfwagen IV]

I've long suspected this has been going on and the event this weekend has only served to highlight its existence for me. I had one game with a veteran 12-man on teamspeak vs a random clan pug group and 4 members of one of the top units in Jade Falcon. At the end of the game, which we lost, the 4 tagged players had 3-4k damage apiece while the rest of their team was under 1k. Makes sense now.

Part of the problem is the Hero-worship that some players have for the famous units in the game, people can't stand to believe that the players they have looked up to all this time are a bunch of frauds and will attempt to defend them to their last breath even in the face of overwhelming evidence.

Edited by Asian Tupac, 29 April 2015 - 11:51 AM.

[AlmightyAeng]

Well, that video does seem hard to refute. And it sucks that people cheat. Really, really sucks.

Ya know what is also going to suck?

Scrubs everywhere screaming "hax!" from a soapbox every time they get beaten by pilots who are just good. There was plenty of it BEFORE this vid. Now they'll feel vindicated.

EDIT: Damn...it's begun already. Ninja'd.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 29 April 2015 - 11:57 AM.

[Mystere]

Driftwoood, on 29 April 2015 - 11:46 AM, said:

Maybe they're just that good? Hard to believe...

Asian Tupac, on 29 April 2015 - 11:49 AM, said:

I've long suspected this has been going on and the event this weekend has only served to highlight its existence for me. I had one game with a veteran 12-man on teamspeak vs a random clan pug group and 4 members of one of the top units in Jade Falcon. At the end of the game, which we lost, the 4 tagged players had 3-4k damage apiece while the rest of their team was under 1k. Makes sense now.

Part of the problem is the Hero-worship that some players have for the famous units in the game, people can't stand to believe that the players they have looked up to all this time are a bunch of frauds and will attempt to defend them to their last breath even in the face of overwhelming evidence.

And now every loss is attributable to cheating, because the losing team is good and the winner is really not that good.

I guess PGI has been given several reports over the weekend of my PUG teams easily beating a few 12-mans that no PUG team should be able to beat.

Edited by Mystere, 29 April 2015 - 11:57 AM.

[Panzerkampfwagen IV]

Mystere, on 29 April 2015 - 11:55 AM, said:

And now every loss is attributable to cheating, because the losing team is good and the winner is really not that good.

I guess PGI has been given several reports over the weekend of my PUG teams easily beating a few 12-mans that no PUG team should be able to beat.

Total hyperbole.
PUG teams can and will win. When you have 4 players with 3-4k damage and the rest of the team under 1000 vs a team of experienced CW players, its obvious there is something wrong. I lost many games this weekend to good teams where we got stomped and the damage spread did not have that kind of a ridiculous disparity. This particular match stood out just in how blatant it was.

[Dino Might]

Yeah, nobody wants to admit they got beat fair and square. We get it - these things exist, but really, be honest when you call hack - what percentage do you think actually does this kind of stuff?

I can post of a video of my Stalker 4N on boreal that got 2500 damage before it's death (1st mech). That was probably reported...lol

I'm afraid there will be lots of time wasted by PGI filing away the thousands of reports from people that got beat.

[Mystere]

Asian Tupac, on 29 April 2015 - 12:01 PM, said:

Total hyperbole.

PUG teams can and will win. When you have 4 players with 3-4k damage and the rest of the team under 1000 vs a team of experienced CW players, its obvious there is something wrong. I lost many games this weekend to good teams where we got stomped and the damage spread did not have that kind of a ridiculous disparity. This particular match stood out just in how blatant it was.

Edited by Mystere, 29 April 2015 - 12:09 PM.

[Gorgo7]

Driftwoood, on 29 April 2015 - 11:46 AM, said:

Must have missed that one last night, Gorgo... was it worse that our match on Saturday morning? A 4TCR 11-man was up against a clan 10-man... the speed with which they cut us down was really hard to believe as legit... we were down around 25-30 to 1, then they stopped really trying... final was 48-13...

Now 4TCR is no comp unit, but we're veteran and not pugs... NEVER had a whooping like that, not by Lords, 420, etc... fought an 8-man from the same unit the day before, they whooped us 48-18...

Maybe they're just that good? Hard to believe...

Took a screenshot of the final score, but what do I do with that? Does PGI have some sort of review process if a player makes a complaint? From what I've heard, PGI has neither the ability, resources, or desire to investigate and ban people for these offenses... Am I wrong?

Yeah, it was the Saturday morning one you referred to.

[Panzerkampfwagen IV]

Mystere, on 29 April 2015 - 12:08 PM, said:

The denial is strong in you my son.

[Raggedyman]

Asian Tupac, on 29 April 2015 - 12:11 PM, said:

The denial is strong in you my son.

Well there is one very simple way to work out if hax were used or not
1 - review all the game data from the match
2 - compare it against other game data to see if there are any significant differences to "normal" game play (hack programs normally have 'signatures' as even their randomisers will be pattern based to give the edge over regular play)
3 - monitor the player for repeated usage/signs of the signature to make sure you haven't got a false positive
4 - make sure that it's actually the user playing, rather than someone hijacking the account to get it banned

So it's basically up to PGI to handle it.

Oh yeah, and you can ignore all data produced or presented by an unreliable source (ie any video, any pics, any admissions of guilt) because they can all be faked for a myriad of reasons. Basically anything from outside of the system is inadmissible, unless you want people to be banned for going "yeah, I totally used a hack. no practice or skills, 100% hack. for sure".

[Mystere]

Tarmac, on 29 April 2015 - 11:28 AM, said:

I've seen the video, and it's true. The game is hacked, in the worst possible way. And it's not a new hack, MWO has been hacked since day 1.

I'm so dissapointed... I've been playing against a bunch of cheaters all this time...

Do you know there is a more elegant solution that involves the following?

• 30-inch+ Display
  
• Google Glass
  
• Custom Software
  
• Mouse Emulation

Johnny Z, on 29 April 2015 - 12:20 PM, said:

Mechwarrior is not aim bot friendly on the bright side.

Are you sure? See above.

Edited by Mystere, 29 April 2015 - 12:41 PM.

[Johnny Z]

Mystere, on 29 April 2015 - 12:38 PM, said:

Do you know there is a more elegant solution that involves the following?

• 30-inch+ Display
  
• Google Glass
  
• Custom Software
  
• Mouse Emulation

Are you sure? See above.

Like someone said in another game to a hacker they beat playing legit. "dont be mad they dont have a drive bot out"

Mechwarrior requires good piloting. Aim bots dont do that. Torso twist radius, torso twist speed, range, heat, armor and the other mechanics this game has isnt friendly to bots. Tough for players to get really good at to.

Edited by Johnny Z, 29 April 2015 - 01:04 PM.

[EvilCow]

The hack seems to be able to fetch coordinates of all targets, this means that it would be a piece of cake aim lasers and keep them on target regardless of target velocity, I am less concerned about weapons with travel time, even in the video it is mentioned that it needs adjustments depending on targets.

Anyway, just being able to see all targets is a huge advantage.

[WarHippy]

Ghost Badger, on 29 April 2015 - 11:49 AM, said:

Well, that video does seem hard to refute. And it sucks that people cheat. Really, really sucks.

Ya know what is also going to suck?

Scrubs everywhere screaming "hax!" from a soapbox every time they get beaten by pilots who are just good. There was plenty of it BEFORE this vid. Now they'll feel vindicated.

EDIT: Damn...it's begun already. Ninja'd.

I'm at work so I couldn't here what the guy in the video was saying, but watching the game footage and ignoring the advantage of knowing where people were was this supposed to be an example of the aim bot as well? If it is an example that guy missed a lot of shots so I don't think we have much to be worried about from this beyond the normal accusations thrown around by players every time they die.

[Panzerkampfwagen IV]

WarHippy, on 29 April 2015 - 01:03 PM, said:

I'm at work so I couldn't here what the guy in the video was saying, but watching the game footage and ignoring the advantage of knowing where people were was this supposed to be an example of the aim bot as well? If it is an example that guy missed a lot of shots so I don't think we have much to be worried about from this beyond the normal accusations thrown around by players every time they die.

You can tune the aimbot to account for the movement speed and mech types, the guy was using an untuned aimbot and did not have it set to compensate for movement. Even still the huge advantage given to hitscan weapons without tuning cannot be ignored.

[Summon3r]

WarHippy, on 29 April 2015 - 01:03 PM, said:

I'm at work so I couldn't here what the guy in the video was saying, but watching the game footage and ignoring the advantage of knowing where people were was this supposed to be an example of the aim bot as well? If it is an example that guy missed a lot of shots so I don't think we have much to be worried about from this beyond the normal accusations thrown around by players every time they die.

u clearly need to watch and have audio on.

[STEF_]

EvilCow, on 29 April 2015 - 12:56 PM, said:

The hack seems to be able to fetch coordinates of all targets, this means that it would be a piece of cake aim lasers and keep them on target regardless of target velocity, I am less concerned about weapons with travel time, even in the video it is mentioned that it needs adjustments depending on targets.

Anyway, just being able to see all targets is a huge advantage.

From my previous post:

Stefka Kerensky, on 29 April 2015 - 05:37 AM, said:

Facing a lot of comp.players during this event, I'm quite sure about who were using "esp wallhack".

But... no name and shame, right?

But this happened: I poke out, and he hit me; change position, poke->hit me, change-> hit me again.
So.... how could he know where I was to poke? Quite hilarious, right?

Not only is a huge advantage, strategically speaking.
But my maneuvers (changing position after every poke) was useless: I felt he knew where I was to poke, because he hit me every time despite different positions taken.
During the event I met him 3 times.
Around 2500 dmg in 2 matches. Above 3000 in the last one.
Very good player indeed.

[Revis Volek]

Dino Might, on 29 April 2015 - 12:05 PM, said:

Yeah, nobody wants to admit they got beat fair and square. We get it - these things exist, but really, be honest when you call hack - what percentage do you think actually does this kind of stuff?

I can post of a video of my Stalker 4N on boreal that got 2500 damage before it's death (1st mech). That was probably reported...lol

I'm afraid there will be lots of time wasted by PGI filing away the thousands of reports from people that got beat.

IF i use all my ammo in my streak dog i am guaranteed 1000+ dmg, no aim bot needed.

[WarHippy]

Asian Tupac, on 29 April 2015 - 01:08 PM, said:

You can tune the aimbot to account for the movement speed and mech types, the guy was using an untuned aimbot and did not have it set to compensate for movement. Even still the huge advantage given to hitscan weapons without tuning cannot be ignored.

Get back to me with a video that has the aimbot tuned so he doesn't miss half of his shots. Obviously knowing the location of every enemy is a big advantage, but the aimbot side of the video was less than "impressive".

Summon3r, on 29 April 2015 - 01:09 PM, said:

u clearly need to watch and have audio on.

I did watch it just couldn't listen to it. Not that worrisome in my opinion. It sucks that things like that are out there, but in all my time playing this game I have yet to run into a situation where I felt like I was at a disadvantage. It is either very ineffective or very rare. What isn't rare is the constant accusations of cheating when none was occurring, but that is par for the course in multiplayer gaming as is of course the existence of cheats.

[Scout Derek]

Kain Thul, on 29 April 2015 - 01:29 PM, said:

People who want to kill 'mechs quickly and not strip 500 points of armor/structure off something before they kill it.

Don't forget hit reg

That being said, though, is why I don't run them anymore, even then not worth it if I can't pack enough ammo for them with artemis, which I NEVER use hahaha

[Mystere]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 29 April 2015 - 01:24 PM, said:

Usually deniers are the offenders because if they can get enough rabble up in arms that it cant possibly happen then ppl will let it drop and they wont get their avdantage removed. This is true for anything in the game that someone else doesnt want removed lol

maybe he's psychic? That seems more probable than hacking, right deniers?

Frankly, I think it's less deniers and more egos dictating that a loss was due to someone cheating.