212 replies to this topic

[Paladwyn]

I've actually been experimenting as an lrm skirmisher with medium mechs. Been having some good results, as people don't expect this behavior. My First was a centurion with two lrm-10's, 2 medium pulse Lasers and two machine guns. With a speed just over 100k, I'm able to engage at any point, and stay mobile. I excel in the 200-300m range Where my bap can counter ecm, and launch over the heads of friendlies In the fight.

When I get a light pushing in to remove the lrm boat, I surprise him with fast speed and capable short range damage, enough to get him to rethink and back off, passing out of minimum range for a missile salvo to be introduced up his tailpipe.

I don't dominate matches, but perform as an excellent support fighter, and still be useful once the ammo runs Dry.

[Darena Bryant]

Ok, so...

I want to use LRMs on my mech (it's a Catapult C4). This thread was supposed to be about how to do that well.

But everyone who posted after the original poster pretty much said, 'Don't do that; it's a bad idea.'

So... should I disregard this entire thread as wrong? What's the final, real verdict on using LRMs? Is the concept of an "LRM boat" a horrible one, or can it work? Or is it more of something that the OP just knows how to make work?

Also, is everything here accurate and up to date? I'm seeing some screenshots that look nothing like the game version I'm playing, along with those that match up better.

[Kjudoon]

Much of the content is applicable and regardless covers basics that makes a good primer. Things have changed but the principles are the same.

[Tesunie]

Darena Bryant, on 09 January 2016 - 08:18 PM, said:

But everyone who posted after the original poster pretty much said, 'Don't do that; it's a bad idea.'

So... should I disregard this entire thread as wrong? What's the final, real verdict on using LRMs? Is the concept of an "LRM boat" a horrible one, or can it work? Or is it more of something that the OP just knows how to make work?

Also, is everything here accurate and up to date? I'm seeing some screenshots that look nothing like the game version I'm playing, along with those that match up better.

Depends upon your opponents to be honest. The more skilled your opponents are, the harder it is to use LRMs effectively because they wont give you as many openings to use your LRMs in. However, they can still be useful. The argument many people will present is that direct fire weapons can be more accurate, and can target and destroy mechs easier, faster and more efficiently. They aren't wrong, but LRMs can be more than just damage weapons. It's all in how you use them.

Don't disregard the thread. There are trinkets of information as well as dross. Try to take the leasons from the thread, and give LRMs a try yourself. Only you can prevent forest fires... I mean only you can determine how LRMs will work for you. If you like it, use them.

I don't LRM boat, because I find that it is too risky. Someone gets within 180m of you? You're useless and probably dead. Enemy have a lot of ECM, and your team doesn't have much counter ECM? You'll probably be useless or hard pressed to deal damage. It's a risky tactic, but it can be very rewarding too when things go right.

LRMs haven't changed too much since the creation of this thread, however that doesn't mean people haven't mentioned older times and placed screenshots of a different era of MW:O's development. Without a specific post/example, I can't say if it is accurate or not.


I can't answer many of these questions any more clearly, without knowing more about what you are asking. However, look at several guides on LRMs. They all usually present some good points, and tactics for you to try if you wish. The best way to learn something is by experimentation and experience. If you never try it yourself, you wont truly know how it works.

Some guides I've made myself on the subject (if you wish to read them). Posted in order from newest to oldest. Most of it is still relevant:
MWO: Forums - Lrms, Spotting, And You 6/20/13
MWO: Forums - Guide: How To Spot (Just covers how one can spot for LRMs as a teammate, but might be helpful still.)
MWO: Forums - Lrm Guide: Lrms Require Skill To Properly Use

And a guide on how I like to build my own mechs:
MWO: Forums - Guide: A Balance Concept To Mech Building


There are a lot of guides on LRM use. You'll find that this is because there are so many different ways one can use LRMs. The most basic is "hide behind a ridge/cover and indirectly bombard a target a teammate is locking". However, this is the most basic, and possibly the most unreliable and ineffective manner unto which one can use LRMs.

LRMs are a utility weapon. They have many uses, and not all are in the damage category.

[Paladwyn]

Missiles are one of the hardest weapons to use effectively. Most will sit behind cover, launching missiles at any available target. This isn't as efficient, but still will Suppress enemies. Your most effective use Is on targets that are already engaged. Assisting in damage. That is for a Higher damage round. Yet, pinning an enemy down while a teammate destroys His buddy, is also handy.

Also you will find the enemy team hates you immediately for lrming, so a detachment will commonly break off to find you. Causing less fighters at the main fight. With proper speed and the foresight to keep moving, you can lead them on a wild goose chase and still Remain effective by firing on enemies.

[Chados]

I like to use LRMs as part of a mixed arsenal. I want to have at least a 20-point direct fire alpha whenever possible and 30 tubes is the sweet spot for me, no more, no less. I find that for my play style, LRMs are best as part of a midrange skirmisher package, operating at about max SRM distance and in close support of assault mechs where possible. Concentrate on the assault mech's target, or the called target if you are part of a team. Watch your flights to make sure you aren't wasting shots on hard cover. The Zeus is an especially good fit for this style of play, and I've successfully used the 9S2(L), 9S, and 5S in it. The Marauder 5D is tremendously effective in this role and can carry a large laser in the dorsal hardpoint. Catapults C1, C4, and A1 are also good fits, and both the Summoner and Timber Wolf on the Clan side are good midrange LRM skirmishers with the right mix of omnipods.

Currently, on the C4 Catapult I carry 2xASRM6/1t ammo, 2xML, 2xALRM15, 6t ammo, AMS, BAP, XL255. I also use level 5 range modules for the lasers and SRMs, radar deprivation, and either advanced target delay or advanced seismic sensor. Artemis is a must, because it speeds indirect locks and when you have line of sight tightens your pattern. It has the same tight pattern effect on SRMs and with the SRM6 it's very noticeable. And carry an active probe to debuff ECM. You can pack TAG at the cost of reducing your direct fire alpha but I don't like doing that.

Edited by Chados, 10 January 2016 - 07:44 PM.

[OznerpaG]

Darena Bryant, on 09 January 2016 - 08:18 PM, said:

Ok, so...

I want to use LRMs on my mech (it's a Catapult C4). This thread was supposed to be about how to do that well.

But everyone who posted after the original poster pretty much said, 'Don't do that; it's a bad idea.'

So... should I disregard this entire thread as wrong? What's the final, real verdict on using LRMs? Is the concept of an "LRM boat" a horrible one, or can it work? Or is it more of something that the OP just knows how to make work?

Also, is everything here accurate and up to date? I'm seeing some screenshots that look nothing like the game version I'm playing, along with those that match up better.

LRM effectiveness is proportional to your tier:

if you are tier 4/5 LRMs should work great since your opponents likely don't know the maps well enough to properly use cover. tier 4/5 are the only tiers where you can get away with boating LRMs on slow assaults

in tier 3 LRMs start needing more skill to use and are more situational since you are playing experienced players. you can get away with using fast assaults like the BLR-1S here, but if your opponents are mostly higher than tier 3 (since you are mixed with all tiers) it'l be a low scoring match for you

and in tier 1/2 LRMs are close to the bottom in terms of effectiveness since you are playing very experienced players who are always peeking in and out of cover, or know how to get to cover very quickly. LRM assaults are a waste of an assault slot here, and only specific medium and heavy mechs are decent for carrying LRMs, but if you want consistent results you may need to mix them with an equal amount of lasers


i still take LRMs out for a spin on a semi-regular basis for old times sake, ironically took this guy out for the first time in a year today

Edited by JagdFlanker, 10 January 2016 - 08:11 PM.

[Tesunie]

Thread bump.

It's been a while since this wonderful thread got a response in it. It needed some attention and love.

[Averen]

Tesunie, on 14 March 2016 - 09:26 AM, said:

Thread bump.

It's been a while since this wonderful thread got a response in it. It needed some attention and love.

Nice thread, but LRM!=Love.

[Raso]

To reiterate what some other have expressed my best LRM victories have always beem in mediums. I use to rock a HBK-4SP with dual ALRM5s, TAG and 4 MLas. I'd engage at ranges under 500m and do my lwn tagging. I never perform well in my Jagermech A. Ever. It's too slow and lacks defensive hardpoints.

Speed is key. You need mobility to be effective and you need to be your own TAG operator.

[General Solo]

Rule 1: LRMs have quite a few counters
where as with direct fire weapons if you can see it and its in range you can shoot it
target info or not.

That said LRM's like any weapon system, take some skill and experience to get the most out of.

Never used to LRM much, but recently I've being running a fast LRM support platform that's proven to be a lot of fun, and brutal to the unprepared.

Unless I get a match with Tier 1's, then see Rule 1.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 14 March 2016 - 11:17 AM.

[zudukai]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e673a61ce6684e2

Shadow cat

1xDHS
ECM

• C-ER MED LASER x2
  
• C-LRG PULSE LASER x1
  
• C-LRM 5 + ARTEMIS x2
  
• C-LRM AMMO + ART. IV x440 (2.5t)

a pokey pest build; LRM's are supplemental, use them situationally, post laser burn with MASC or during JJ ascent they put heads down as well as 2 panel spread.



untested as of this post, but i'm about to play it, any suggestions?

Edited by zudukai, 14 March 2016 - 04:45 PM.

[Squiggy McPew]

My lurmboat. Also has adv sensors and target decay, max lrm range and cooldown along with improved uav and airstrike. Dies in a fire to anything that gets under min lrm range but deadly otherwise especially if you can get them to chase you as those salvos go right into the core. If you can get a scout to keep targets locked then it's a match winner as long as the rest of the team is reasonably competent.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2e622b9f6dda085

Edited by 120mm, 22 March 2016 - 05:48 AM.

[Tesunie]

120mm, on 22 March 2016 - 05:11 AM, said:

My lurmboat. Also has adv sensors and target decay, max lrm range and cooldown along with improved uav and airstrike. Dies in a fire to anything that gets under min lrm range but deadly otherwise especially if you can get them to chase you as those salvos go right into the core. If you can get a scout to keep targets locked then it's a match winner as long as the rest of the team is reasonably competent.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2e622b9f6dda085

I would like to mention, LRM range extender is almost useless to you. Missiles tend not to hit outside of 600m due to flight time and the strong possibility of the target being able to break the lock. (But it's up to you.) There probably isn't a better weapon module to place there for that mech anyway, so it's not really hurting you to place it there.

Second point is, what is that Command Console doing there? It does increase sensor range, but so does BAP and the Adv Sensors (which longer ranges isn't necessarily going to help you, as mentioned above). It's zoom function is not going to help your LRMs, and it doesn't increase lock on speeds (only the rate that you acquire the paper doll damage display).

For your design of 6 LRM5s and no other weapon, the CC is a waste of space for you. BAP at least can disable a single ECM that gets too close. Use that weight from the CC to max out your armor, increase your engine, get some Jump Jets on your mech, get more ammo, etc. It isn't doing anything helpful to you as your mech you posted is an LRM boat.

I'd also personally change that Adv Sensors module over to Radar Deprivation or Seismic Sensors to warn you when someone might be getting too close. Could even place a strike improvement module as another possibility...

[Tesunie]

zudukai, on 14 March 2016 - 04:13 PM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e673a61ce6684e2

Shadow cat

1xDHS
ECM

• C-ER MED LASER x2
  
• C-LRG PULSE LASER x1
  
• C-LRM 5 + ARTEMIS x2
  
• C-LRM AMMO + ART. IV x440 (2.5t)

a pokey pest build; LRM's are supplemental, use them situationally, post laser burn with MASC or during JJ ascent they put heads down as well as 2 panel spread.




untested as of this post, but i'm about to play it, any suggestions?

Only thing I could mention would be to remove the Artemis from the build, as LRM5s kinda don't need it to reduce their already low spread. But, I can still see Artemis being useful for reduced lock on speeds... Up to you on this one. I'd say, give it a try, see if it works. If it does work, than by all means go with it.

[Squiggy McPew]

Tesunie, on 22 March 2016 - 10:20 AM, said:

~snip~

Thanks for the breakdown. :^) As to the command console I'm a pug player and I find the randomness of my 'team' means I have to have a more jack of all trades fit than a specialized boat where I can rely on teammates for locks and such. True the zoom and target info are not very useful but 6% more sensor range stacked with the bap and adv sensors has let me apply damage when I catch a mech out of cover at a distance but no one is paying attention to him. As to the lrm range module I don't have any issues hitting all the way out to its max range as long as the lock is held and have saved many a mech who pushed too far out and hit a flanker or two.

The 220 engine is fine as I'm more than fast enough to stay with the group at large and it tends to naturally keep me in a secondary fire position where I belong. The airstrike is something I rarely ever use as it's typically better just to shoot them with lrm but it does come in handy for the rare times you catch a group all clusterfudged and pinned down. Armour is also purposely reduced on the legs by half as no one ever shoots me there. ;^p Now if I played with a lance who I knew I could count on then sure I'd change my fit but it's about the best option for the chaos of solopugs.

Edited by 120mm, 22 March 2016 - 04:42 PM.

[hellcatq]

My play experience is different than what I have been reading.

I generally run a stalker with 3x LRm 20 and like 2610 ammo. I use artemis, and I use tag. I have a little slow engine and I shave my leg armor to half of what my center torso armor is. I use several dbl heat sinks too so that I do not constantly overheat. I prefer the using both weapon modules, target lock decay, and radar deprivation.

I often make sure to catch up to the pack and try to place myself in the middle area of the group. I have been killed by a fast moving light on the way to catching up to the group, but that is something that happens a couple times out of hundred of hours of gameplay. It is rare. I am currently a mid tier 3 player and I only PUG.

I often do the best dmg with my Lrms at a distance of about 750 meters. It infuriates me that most matches peeps like to sit at 1k+ distances. I prefer my own locks so that I can see the target and that my missles are hitting. In the 500 meter range a mech is probably getting ready to die pretty fast as most current direct fire builds tend to over heat before they can kill me even if I stand still, which I seldom do. Tag+ artemis + range of 500 meters seems to make my missles hurt assaults very badly.

[Bloodweaver]

hellcatq, on 15 April 2016 - 08:12 AM, said:

I generally run a stalker with 3x LRm 20 and like 2610 ammo. I use artemis, and I use tag. I have a little slow engine and I shave my leg armor to half of what my center torso armor is. I use several dbl heat sinks too so that I do not constantly overheat. I prefer the using both weapon modules, target lock decay, and radar deprivation.

Are you using the -4N Stalker? If not, change to 4xLRM-15. You shoot the same number of missiles, at a faster rate, with less spread, and gain one ton in weight as well as two crit slots in space. There is literally no advantage whatsoever to 3x20 as opposed to 3x15. Truth be told, even 3x15 will get you better results in a more consistent way than 3x20, although I understand the appeal of using the biggest launchers possible. But if that's what you want to do, get the STK-5M instead - it has five missile hardpoints, and you can mount a 100-rated engine which allows ridiculous 5x20 builds, if that's what you're after.

[hellcatq]

seems to me like 3x20 ends up getting more missles thru the ams and even if I miss some the excess seems to hit his buddies standing around him. I'm using the h stalker so it has lrm 20 quirks too. Nothing wrong with 4 x 15 except that uses more slots and produces more heat. It also produces more alarm and they get of the way faster. I'm pretty sure I'd rather 3x 15 than 4x15 with my play style, but I will likely try both out soon as I have all the weapons modules unlocked for lrms and I have all the stalkers available. Still I am sure I am not using the best build, but it is effective.

[ExoForce]

Tip: Do not put ammo (or try to avoid it) on your left side because most people are right handed.