212 replies to this topic

[Johny Rocket]

michaelius, on 24 May 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

Does Artemis help with clan LRM launchers working in waves compared to one shot IS LRMs ?

I'm running two adders now one with 2 LRM10+artemis and one with 2 LRM10 and it's really hard to spot any diffrence in how they operate.

Artemis requires line of sight, and is less effective with the smaller launchers because their spread is already decently tight.
Never played it on clan mechs so nothing to say there .
Just so many better ways to spend the weight and slots, BAPS, Tag, or Narc. I prefer the lrm5-10 launchers so never waste the resources on it.

Edited by Tractor Joe, 24 May 2015 - 06:33 AM.

[OznerpaG]

Artemis cuts lock-on time in half, so that's it's main advantage. less spread is just an added bonus for IS mechs, doesn't apply to clan mechs because of their missile streaming

[Bloodweaver]

Just because they stream, doesn't mean they can't benefit from higher accuracy. Come to think of it, I'm fairly certain Clan LRMs are even less accurate than Inner Sphere LRMs, just like their SRMs even with Artemis are only about as tightly grouped as non-Artemis Inner Sphere SRMs. This requires testing...

[Tesunie]

Last I heard, as far as CLRMs and Artemis.

Artemis helps clan LRMs as much as they do IS LRMs. Clan LRMs actually don't spread out any more than IS versions, but it's harder to tell because of the ripple fire. The ripple fire does make CLRMs spread more easily, as you are able to start dodging them mid stream.

Artemis should affect CLRMs spread and lock on times. Just recall that it only helps reduce spread if you have direct line of sight to your target.

The only noticeable difference between CLRMs and IS LRMs is the ripple fire, which makes CLRMs more susceptible to AMS. I don't know of any other real differences to their behaviors in game (as far as flight trajectories, tracking abilities, spread, etc).

[OznerpaG]

Tesunie, on 24 May 2015 - 04:05 PM, said:

Artemis should affect CLRMs spread and lock on times. Just recall that it only helps reduce spread if you have direct line of sight to your target.

in the end spread is determined by how much the target is moving around when the missiles hit

IS LRMs come in from above so they generally hit the torsos, unless the target is fast (lights) in which case they hit the legs more

clan LRMs hit in a stream from a more direct angle so it's much easier to roll the damage off to spread it around, direct LOS or no. Artemis doesn't do much to help clan LRMs in that regard. personally i can't use clan LRMs - they'r worse than LBXs

Edited by JagdFlanker, 24 May 2015 - 06:55 PM.

[Tesunie]

JagdFlanker, on 24 May 2015 - 06:52 PM, said:

... personally i can't use clan LRMs - they'r worse than LBXs

I actually have been running CLRMs very nicely so far. Of course, I'm also not boating them. Typically my Thors have a single LRM10 on them, and it's all I sometimes need. It's a good compliment to my other weapons, and often can be used for that tiny boost of damage or to make someone run and hide. With a CLRM10 launcher and 1 ton of ammo, it's not like I've sunk too many tons into that weapon at least.

[cx5]

Thanks Catalina,

Brilliant posts, now I know why I did so badly in CPLT, plus I ran frontal most of the times which is stupid of me, regardless, the reason for my quoting is to ask if you could provide a pictorial HITs of SRM6 spread versus with ARTEMIS. Ignore SRM2 and 4. Another interest is Clan's STREAK SRM6 spread, it seems to be focusing on outside components like arms, legs, high shoulders etc, sort off like completely avoiding center. Not sure if it's easy to as the one you just provided below. Thanks a lot in advance. Kudos for this thread.

Catalina Steiner, on 29 April 2015 - 09:12 AM, said:

[cx5]

Kiiyor, on 15 May 2015 - 11:05 PM, said:

This is spectacular. How did you go about setting it up? I did something similar with SRM's a while ago.

Oh man, I feel stupid now asking Catalina to make a SRM spread pitorial. Can you provide the link of your SRM spread posts? thanks.

[Sonny Black]

cx5, on 29 May 2015 - 01:17 AM, said:

Thanks Catalina,

Brilliant posts, now I know why I did so badly in CPLT, plus I ran frontal most of the times which is stupid of me, regardless, the reason for my quoting is to ask if you could provide a pictorial HITs of SRM6 spread versus with ARTEMIS. Ignore SRM2 and 4. Another interest is Clan's STREAK SRM6 spread, it seems to be focusing on outside components like arms, legs, high shoulders etc, sort off like completely avoiding center. Not sure if it's easy to as the one you just provided below. Thanks a lot in advance. Kudos for this thread.

There's This From MechSpec

[Nightmare1]

While I'm one of the ones who disdains LRMs, I do recognize their place in the game and made a tutorial for them a while back:




It's a bit cheeky, but it does have some good points and may help out newer pilots.

[TVMA Doc]

Repasy, on 02 May 2015 - 04:57 PM, said:

If you don't mind adding one more point on the worth of equipping artemis:

Every artemis-equipped launcher sacrifices a ton of ammo for increased direct-fire accuracy. So I think the real question is do you want your damage dealt faster, or do you want increased damage potential. If you don't mind having increased damage potential over an extended period, I suggest ignoring artemis. I would not be surprised if the extra number of missiles that hit w/ artemis support per launcher is less than the number of missiles that hit w/o artemis support from an extra ton of ammo.

The other side of this is that it isn't always the total amount of damage you do, but rather the amount of significant damage that you do. I find that when I run pinpoint damage weapons like AC20 or gauss, I typically have lower overall damage results, but usually with many more kills and a higher total mission score. That's because I'm not moderately scorching every armor panel on the mech before killing it.

LRMs without artemis are more likely to just pepper the entire target with random damage while artemis is going to place more of that damage on the CT. With the uncommon exceptions of finding a mech running an XL with a crit side torso or with a critted head, etc., that random damage isn't going to do as much good even if you quadruple the amount.

[OznerpaG]

TVMA Doc, on 05 June 2015 - 09:59 AM, said:

The other side of this is that it isn't always the total amount of damage you do, but rather the amount of significant damage that you do. I find that when I run pinpoint damage weapons like AC20 or gauss, I typically have lower overall damage results, but usually with many more kills and a higher total mission score. That's because I'm not moderately scorching every armor panel on the mech before killing it.

LRMs without artemis are more likely to just pepper the entire target with random damage while artemis is going to place more of that damage on the CT. With the uncommon exceptions of finding a mech running an XL with a crit side torso or with a critted head, etc., that random damage isn't going to do as much good even if you quadruple the amount.

doubly more so against smaller bodied faster mechs like lights and mediums where a bigger % of the missiles are not even going to hit without artemis

just because Artemis is an option, it doesn't mean it's optional - all or nothing, every missile counts towards a team win

Edited by JagdFlanker, 05 June 2015 - 07:16 PM.

[Tesunie]

There are times, cases and occasion when one might not need, wish and/or afford to be able to place Artemis onto their mechs. If you are boating LRMs on your mech, then, just like TAG (and BAP can be argued here too), you really should take Artemis.

If your goal is to take only a few LRMs on your mech, then Artemis probably is too much extra weight placed into LRMs than you'd rather have invested into the endevour.

Another point is, if you only intend to use LRMs indirectly (which I tend to have small racks for just those occasions on my mech, as I move into direct firing lines), then Artemis provides you no benefit. (This is not to say people should make LRM boats with the intent of indirect fire only. However, it is something to be considered when you are taking LRMs. What reasons are you taking those LRMs, and what role are you wishing for them to fore fill.)


There is a time and place for everything, and a tactic and reason to take or not take certain pieces of equipment. Depending upon what one wishes to do, will determine what gear they place onto their loadouts.

[Catalina Steiner]

This is an addition to my "skill post" (V. Skills you need for being a good pilot). Some of these topics need a further describtion to be exact and helpful. Today it's this one:

• always moving to the perfect position to be protected from enemy fire and to fire LRM's effectively

What does it mean?

LRM mechs are no brawlers, they often don't use the complete armor, they very often carry XL engines (to be fast and to carry as much LRM launchers and ammunition as possible). There is no reason to stand in the front row during a battle. You need the perfect position to launch your missiles effectively and to be protected from enemy fire. Additional to that you need to see what your team is watching. So most of the times the perfect position is behind your team. There are ambushes and flanking scenarios that demand another movement tactic but as a basic rule, the position behind your team should do it most of the times.



You need to consider lots of conditions and effects when firing LRM's effectively but this kind of movement will safe your life. It's responsible for being alive and still being able to fire LRM's later in a battle. You need to watch the movement of your team very carefully, not important how interesting the target is. You are destroying a helpless assault with your LRM's but... if your team is circling around a corner, you need to move. Sometimes you are able to hold the lock during your movement (mostly with fast and agile medium mechs, it's also a question of training) but you should be patient and modest enough to cancel your fire for the reason of surviving this phase of the battle. Stay behind your team to provide the perfect fire support.

[Tesunie]

Personally, I'd rather not be that far back from what your imagery is portraying. If I have LRMs, even though I personally don't boat very much, I wouldn't want to have anywhere near that gap between myself and allies. Too easy for a light to sneak around my team, attack me, and my team probably wouldn't even noticed.

I would rather be in the back blue dot in relation to my team most times. Mixed in with them, but behind them slightly. Too much distance from the team can leave you vulnerable to flanking and even surprise rear attacks. If within the team, even if your team isn't paying attention to you personally, they are far more likely to attack an enemy mech running through their ranks.

Just my 2 c-bills here.

[InspectorG]

Catalina Steiner, on 29 June 2015 - 03:22 AM, said:

I would say be more in the middle of the blue blob.
Friendlies covering your 6.
Less distance to target = they get less reaction time.
Your TAG may be ignored if mixed in with all the other beams. Compared to sitting on a hill in the back with a laser pointer giving you away...you will be ERPPC bait.

Plus in the blob you present another target choice potentially spreading enemy fire across your team and you can eat a few shots that otherwise would go to a direct-fire teammate.
A LRM boat with no direct fire to discourage opponents gets overrun quickly.

[Catalina Steiner]

I have an addition for this skill I mentioned in my first posts:

Quote

estimate ranges very fast (under 1000m and more than 180m) before trying the lock

I've found out that your missiles need to be within this range when they hit, not when they are fired!

For example, you are firing your LRM's on your target at 950 meters. Then it is running away and when the missiles should reach the target, it's more than 1000 meters away. The missiles won't hit.
But if you fire your LRM's when the target is 1050 meters away and you are running in the direction of your target and reach the 1000 meter mark before the LRM's are arriving, you hit the target.

It's not complete logical but that's how it is.

[Jman5]

Catalina Steiner, on 28 July 2015 - 01:33 PM, said:

I have an addition for this skill I mentioned in my first posts:



I've found out that your missiles need to be within this range when they hit, not when they are fired!

For example, you are firing your LRM's on your target at 950 meters. Then it is running away and when the missiles should reach the target, it's more than 1000 meters away. The missiles won't hit.
But if you fire your LRM's when the target is 1050 meters away and you are running in the direction of your target and reach the 1000 meter mark before the LRM's are arriving, you hit the target.

It's not complete logical but that's how it is.

Weird. So I was testing this in the training ground to see if you're right.

What I found was that if you are within range when firing, but move your mech out of range before the LRMs impact, it does no damage like you said. However when I tried the opposite, firing out of range and moving closer, it didn't do any damage.

Definitely a weird bug. I'm gonna send that off to PGI.

Edited by Jman5, 29 July 2015 - 02:11 PM.

[Nightmare1]

I always viewed it as this:

Your LRMs can only travel 1,000 meters before losing their lethality. If something moves beyond the 1,000 meter range, then it is outside their strike zone. If it moves within the range, then it is inside the strike zone. I noticed this some time ago and employ it in battle. I don't shoot at anything over 900 meters away unless it is immobile or moving towards me. Otherwise I'm just wasting ammo.

[AriCri]

Thank you so much Catalina for your effective work
I ask your permission to translate all this effort in Italian language for our LRM pilots!
Personally, I have a brawling behavior in match but I agree to do not disdain LRM tactics!
I look forward to seeing you on battlefield!

Edited by AriCri, 29 July 2015 - 11:47 PM.