212 replies to this topic

[Yozzman]

Catalina Steiner, on 29 June 2015 - 03:22 AM, said:

Sorry this is BS, this is the exact reason why people curse at people boating.

Just be in the group... Not behind it :/
Shorter distance to target so a greater change to keep the target lock and hit.

And if needed you can use direct fire weapons to push with the group

Edited by Yozzman, 29 July 2015 - 11:59 PM.

[cx5]

Catalina Steiner, on 28 July 2015 - 01:33 PM, said:

But if you fire your LRM's when the target is 1050 meters away and you are running in the direction of your target and reach the 1000 meter mark before the LRM's are arriving, you hit the target.

It's not complete logical but that's how it is.

I think you mis typed some words, it shouldn't be when you running towards the target, but instead when the target unknowingly running towards you that your missles get to hit it.

Jman5, on 29 July 2015 - 02:10 PM, said:

it didn't do any damage.

Again, I think her just typed wrongly.

As Nightmare1 also very rightly pointed out, only fire when target is moving towards you. Not away from you.

Doesn't matter if you move towards it. i.e. both you and target running in same direction and same speed, you fire LRM exactly 1000 meters distance, would it still reach after travelling 10 seconds? even though sensors indicate target is 1000 meters away. Surely not.

1000 meters is actual missile travel distance, including the beautiful curve up into the sky and curve down etc, everything else is just for reference.

I only fire within 850 meters.

[cx5]

Catalina Steiner, on 29 April 2015 - 09:30 AM, said:

V. Skills you need for being a good pilot

• knowing the targets: which target is worth the fire?
  
• 
  
• watching the impact, cancelling the fire if LRM's do not hit
  

I know you know, just missed this point not yet typed in your so long lists of tips or already wrote somewhere I missed it, then I'm sorry, wasted your time.

Additional tips "When out of sight, how to know if missiles are hitting or not? hence the above two points, worth locking it ??? and shooting + watching even when out of sight.

Answer = pay close attention to your targeting reticle, it will turn RED momentarily when the missiles hit.

That's why Catalina said know the terrain. Some places have no cover, if we know that the target only when out of sight of us, but within sight of friendlies, hence target lockable, then fire one round to check reticle turns RED or not, if yes, and again if you know there's no ROOF/birdge/building/hills to cover it, keep firing until the reticle does not turn RED anymore.

[Catalina Steiner]

AriCri, on 29 July 2015 - 11:47 PM, said:

Thank you so much Catalina for your effective work
I ask your permission to translate all this effort in Italian language for our LRM pilots!
Personally, I have a brawling behavior in match but I agree to do not disdain LRM tactics!
I look forward to seeing you on battlefield!

It would be a great honour to see a guide translated in another language. If you need any help, please tell me.
I also know the italian moderator if it's about language issues.

Yozzman, on 29 July 2015 - 11:58 PM, said:

Sorry this is BS, this is the exact reason why people curse at people boating.

Just be in the group... Not behind it :/
Shorter distance to target so a greater change to keep the target lock and hit.

And if needed you can use direct fire weapons to push with the group

No, Sir... this is not BS, it's just a draft. I understood that this draft is extreme but it's still a draft. Usually I'm not that far behind my team.
But in extreme brawling situations, I really try to get to this position and I can survive a massacre without being shot.

Thank you for constructive criticism but no not enter my thread again and calling my stuff BS. I cannot stand this.

Edited by Catalina Steiner, 02 August 2015 - 11:51 AM.

[Motroid]

Catalina Steiner, on 02 August 2015 - 11:50 AM, said:

No, Sir... this is not BS, it's just a draft. I understood that this draft is extreme but it's still a draft. Usually I'm not that far behind my team.
But in extreme brawling situations, I really try to get to this position and I can survive a massacre without being shot.

Thank you for constructive criticism but no not enter my thread again and calling my stuff BS. I cannot stand this.

While I really appreciate your work and effort with this guide I think it puts you in a bad spot to go so rough on diffrent opinions.
Furthermore it undermines your credibility when you try to prohibit someones access to "your" thread. If it really was true what you are saying then it could hold up to other opinions by facts and not by threats and rudeness...

On topic: I really believe LRMs have a place in MW:O and your guide provides solid information to get the best out of them. However the best use of LRMs even under optimal conditions just cannot mess with direct fire high alpha deathball warrior that this game is and always has been and most likely will stay forever...
Maybe after some more "significant changes to ECM" or a complete information warfare overhaul this is about to change, but as it stands now LRMs are useless versus a competent team for reasons that are well known.
Their place in MW:O is to draw in a few players who without LRMs would not play MW:O at all. You know HoTaS etc..
That is their place in MW:O at the moment according to someone who has been into this game since 2012 with 19,5k drops and you can believe me - I tried to play the LRM game, to little and stalling success. I started with a founder CPLT and own STK, AWS, BLR, HGN, WHK, MDD etc. for LRM use but they are underwhelming. Nevertheless I like them and would never sell a single one of them and I really, really hope that LRMs get the place in MW:O that they truly deserve. To be a real choice if you wanna win in a competetive setting.
No need to "excommunicate" me here too, as I will be in "read only mode".

[Catalina Steiner]

Sorry, this is "my guide", something I created and it's also a thread for discussion to add information and constructive criticism. I'm proud enough of my work to defend it against someone who calls it BS. It's about pride and respect for work... at least my own work. If you don't care for others calling your work BS, you might be a very happy person.

It would have been easy to report and delete it, due to our rules (unconstructive and bad language) but I wanted to make sure that there should be a constructive way to add informations or to prove me wrong. Nothing against proving me wrong but no one calls my work BS without getting an appropriate answer.

And what's also important: because of your on-topic statements, I've created this thread. There is a way to play LRM's in this meta and competitive game, right now, with this ECM madness and in CW. I do it regularly, I made lots of damage in CW (mostly 1000-1500 damage with my both LRM mechs plus the damage of my brawlers). Skilled pilots always find a way to play their favourite weapon. Certainly it's not easy to do damage like one or two years before but you can do a lot of damage with LRM's. Maybe a brawler can kill faster but I can distract a whole team, making my own team doing a successful rush because the enemy is busy with being hit by my LRM spam. And who needs locks if she is skilled to get her own locks or firing LRM's even without lock?

There is enough anti-LRM propaganda and lies here, this thread doesn't need it (not saying your statement is a lie and propaganda, my answer is general at this point).
It's about competitive and successful use of LRM weaponry and that's what I do. Nothing more, nothing less. And I'm proud of it.

[Nightmare1]

cx5, on 30 July 2015 - 01:43 AM, said:

I think you mis typed some words, it shouldn't be when you running towards the target, but instead when the target unknowingly running towards you that your missles get to hit it.

Again, I think her just typed wrongly.

As Nightmare1 also very rightly pointed out, only fire when target is moving towards you. Not away from you.

Doesn't matter if you move towards it. i.e. both you and target running in same direction and same speed, you fire LRM exactly 1000 meters distance, would it still reach after travelling 10 seconds? even though sensors indicate target is 1000 meters away. Surely not.

1000 meters is actual missile travel distance, including the beautiful curve up into the sky and curve down etc, everything else is just for reference.

I only fire within 850 meters.

1,000 meters should be the 1,000 meters in your range finder, not the complete travel time unless PGI has changed it within the last month or two. In other words, it's 1,000 meters "as crow flies." It's a rather minor point, except that if you were to include the vertical component of travel in addition to the horizontal component, thus using the arc length, then your missiles would not actually hit anything that your range finder states is 1,000 meters away, because they would exhaust their fuel beforehand.

For simplicity's sake, PGI made it the flat 1,000 meters in your range finder.

Thanks for the support though! I also don't fire at anything over 850 meters; it's too easy to waste ammo that way, especially if I don't have eyes on the prize. My preferred engagement range is 300-600 meters for what I consider to be the most effective killing area. You have short travel times and decreased enemy reaction time which translates in increased accuracy and damage dealt.

[Tesunie]

Motroid, on 02 August 2015 - 12:33 PM, said:

While I really appreciate your work and effort with this guide I think it puts you in a bad spot to go so rough on diffrent opinions.
Furthermore it undermines your credibility when you try to prohibit someones access to "your" thread. If it really was true what you are saying then it could hold up to other opinions by facts and not by threats and rudeness...

The problem wasn't "what" was said, but "how" it was said.

Already, several others of us said basically the same thing (don't be too far behind the group, try to stick with the group and not actually behind them). However, the attitude presented in the post "this is BS" was just uncalled for.

Here, I agree with Catalina. If you are going to be that blatantly rude, then go else where. There is a thing called "tact", often referred to as "tone of voice".

[heimdelight]

Catalina Steiner, on 29 April 2015 - 09:48 AM, said:

VI. Approved LRM-Boat builds


IS assault mechs

"Assault LRM support" - Victor with 2xLRM10. VTR-9K

"Assault LRM-Boat" - THE! LRM-Boat. Battlemaster with 2xLRM10 and 2xLRM15. Everything but 1000 damage is embarrassing. BLR-1S

"Assault LRM-Boat" - Classic Stalker with 2xLRM10 and 2xLRM15. STK-3F

Why is the Highlander 733 not listed? It can LRM 60 with Jump Jets, and using the JJs to throw a full LRM salvo is extremely useful. It's especially useful to equip tag in the arm and hold it as you're jumpjetting to ensure the LRMs hit the target.

Edited by heimdelight, 03 August 2015 - 01:51 PM.

[heimdelight]

Catalina Steiner, on 02 August 2015 - 01:00 PM, said:

There is a way to play LRM's in this meta and competitive game

Sure, you can play them, but they are significantly worse weapons than almost anything else available. I'd also like to say as a competitive player, I have never lost to LRMs and never taken them into a competitive match. Again, LRMs can be used in a competitive match, but it would end extremely bad.

[Kjudoon]

I like this guide to LRMs.

Only one minor quibble. The ON1-VA is the premier LRM Heavy. My Pain Train configuration was my magnum opus build. It is the only mech I have with two Ace of Spades on it.

2x LRM15s w/ Artemis
2x LRM 5s w/ Artemis
1 ML
1 Tag
10-12 tons ammo (depending on space/tonnage of engine and heatsinks or BAP)
XL 325-335)
Endo/DHS

That is your premiere LRM support mech IMNSHO. An example of it post LRM 5/splash damage nerf in action. It's a shadow of it's former self.

Edited by Kjudoon, 03 August 2015 - 02:39 PM.

[Kjudoon]

heimdelight, on 03 August 2015 - 01:54 PM, said:

Sure, you can play them, but they are significantly worse weapons than almost anything else available. I'd also like to say as a competitive player, I have never lost to LRMs and never taken them into a competitive match. Again, LRMs can be used in a competitive match, but it would end extremely bad.

Yep. It's a sad truth until PGI deals with TTK problems of damage stacking caused by perfect convergence by introducing dynamic convergence or cone of fire for all grouped DF weapons. Once that is fixed, then LRMs become a much more viable choice.

[Nightmare1]

Kjudoon, on 03 August 2015 - 02:40 PM, said:

Yep. It's a sad truth until PGI deals with TTK problems of damage stacking caused by perfect convergence by introducing dynamic convergence or cone of fire for all grouped DF weapons. Once that is fixed, then LRMs become a much more viable choice.

That's because once PGI breaks aiming for all other systems, only lock-ons will be accurate.

I'd rather they didn't touch convergence. It was ugly back in Closed Beta; I'd rather not go through that again.

LRMs are still quite viable if you know what you are doing. It's also pretty easy to neuter ECM in the field, especially in Pug matches. Despite the preponderance of ECM in the field, I can still consistently score 800+ damage with my BLR-1S and see other LRM boaters do the same. It's all in how you drive it.

My own LRM guide (it's a bit cheeky):





I normally have better LRM matches, but that one really lent itself to making the video, more so than others and for several reasons.

[Kjudoon]

If that is the case, eliminate all missilen spread. Thdn it will be the same as those 80 point ppfld alphas.

Balance achieved again.

[Nightmare1]

I'd be willing to see LRMs get their damage doubled in exchange for the elimination of indirect fire capabilities. I don't think that will ever happen though.

Besides, LRMs have the advantage of lock-on with minimal exposure if done correctly, which more than compensates for their spread damage. If you're doing less than 800 damage per match with LRMs, then you're not doing it right. That video in and of itself is a good example; I should have scored 800+ damage but didn't because I was careless and wasted a few salvos. Had I played it right, I would easily have attained 800+ and likely would have had 1000+ damage (I've done it with that build more than once).

[Lyoto Machida]

Nightmare1, on 03 August 2015 - 04:51 PM, said:

If you're doing less than 800 damage per match with LRMs, then you're not doing it right.

Then most LRM pilots aren't doing it right. Are your LRM boat variants averaging around 800 damage per match?

[Tesunie]

Nightmare1, on 03 August 2015 - 04:51 PM, said:

I'd be willing to see LRMs get their damage doubled in exchange for the elimination of indirect fire capabilities. I don't think that will ever happen though.

Besides, LRMs have the advantage of lock-on with minimal exposure if done correctly, which more than compensates for their spread damage. If you're doing less than 800 damage per match with LRMs, then you're not doing it right. That video in and of itself is a good example; I should have scored 800+ damage but didn't because I was careless and wasted a few salvos. Had I played it right, I would easily have attained 800+ and likely would have had 1000+ damage (I've done it with that build more than once).

For the record, I don't tend to deal 800+ damage with my LRMs, especially not with ECM so think and double penalizing me on the field. (I also don't run LRM boats, as I'm sure has already been established.) I'd like to believe though that the damage I cause is more meaningful, as I don't exactly "spray and pray" my ammo away, and I bring more direct fire weapons than most LRM users.

[Nightmare1]

Lyoto Machida, on 03 August 2015 - 05:12 PM, said:

Then most LRM pilots aren't doing it right. Are your LRM boat variants averaging around 800 damage per match?

I own one IS LRM boat, a BLR-1S. It does average between 800 and 900 damage per match. I take steps to neutralize ECM by equipping BAP and a TAG. I am also proactive about obtaining locks and am not afraid to fight close to the front lines, thus creating short travel times and increased opportunities to secure locks. In short, I'm a very hands-on LRMer.

My other LRM boats include a Timber Wolf Prime and a Storm Crow. The Crow is not yet Elited but has been averaging a little over 700 damage per match. It's a little lower than I like, but it is a Medium and it isn't leveled yet, so I make an allowance for it. The Timby has already broken the 1,000 damage barrier with nothing more than twin LRM 20s, twin ERLLs, and a TAG. Video below:




I just purchased the HBK-4J to round out my HBK collection, but have not yet taken the time to outfit or run it. I am curious to see how it performs.

Tesunie, on 03 August 2015 - 05:16 PM, said:

For the record, I don't tend to deal 800+ damage with my LRMs, especially not with ECM so think and double penalizing me on the field. (I also don't run LRM boats, as I'm sure has already been established.) I'd like to believe though that the damage I cause is more meaningful, as I don't exactly "spray and pray" my ammo away, and I bring more direct fire weapons than most LRM users.

LRMs, when coupled with Artemis and TAG, are hardly spray and pray. While they remain spread damage weapons, the aforementioned utilities help them home more accurately, making it so that most of the missiles can strike a single component. The smaller the launcher, the more accurate the missiles and the faster they an fire. I assure you, my LRM matches are focused attacks of missile streams that have nearly the same precision as my laser boats.

All that to say, I personally dislike LRMs and view them as a low-skill weapon. I tend to use them only when I am experiencing connectivity issues and/or abnormally high ping. The lock-on nature of the weapons makes it relatively simple to deal damage despite lacking finesse, something that would normally greatly hamper a pinpoint pilot.

[Kjudoon]

When i see gauss whales killing 6 mechs in a mach with 250 dmg, its wrong that an lrm mech doesnt have similar kill ratios with quadruple the damage.  Currently 800 dmg with a lrmboat should have 2-3 kills if you are going all pro.  You should at least have 6 component destructions.
Of course this assumes you are not in the elo underhive.  If you are not you are dead anyway because the high elo brackets with all the ppfld and people actually knowing how to use cover and ecm on nearly every metamech on a team.It should also be noted that lrms are the highest SKILL weapon but the lowest TWITCH weapon. They ar the least efficient slowest and poorest hit reg weapon which is why they are a poor competitive weapon. Change any single one of those deficiencies and they become viable. Decrease the efficency of dr weapons even a little and again they will thrive. This is all about accurate and rapid application of stacks of damage. Dps with precision is king. That is why LRMs as much as i prefer them are inferior in extremis.

Edited by Kjudoon, 03 August 2015 - 05:54 PM.

[Tesunie]

Nightmare1, on 03 August 2015 - 05:29 PM, said:

LRMs, when coupled with Artemis and TAG, are hardly spray and pray.

By Spray and pray, I mean "shoot LRMs at every lock, without considering the chances of it hitting the target", or "shooting at every lock". Then again, I seem to have a higher hit percentage with my LRMs than most other people... Actually, my normal LRMs have a higher hit percentage than my Artemis LRMs... I seem to also be backwards and have a better hit percentage with my LRM20s than I do LRM5s... Don't ask. I don't know.