85 replies to this topic

[zudukai]

ok, so here we have a weapon that was overused to the max, and subsequently nerfed to the max, at this point in the game, nearly nobody uses the c-ERppc unless it comes stock on a mech, or they are experimenting with the weapon either as supplemental damage or as part of a modified stock build.

i think the PPC needs to get another visit, either after or before the clan ballistic balance, because nearly every build i make with a PPC, often times any combo of large pulses or other dakka simply outclass it in every way, either in terms of front loading damage or overall damage over time.

so, mighty MWOmercs forums, i call for discussion on this topic, the Clan Extended range Particle Projection Cannon, what would bring this weapon more in line with the others, how can we make this weapon more usable without breaking it.

at this point, i would argue that the 2.5 damage spread is basically like throwing spitballs vs what any lasers can do, and probably would bring the most usefulness back to the hellishly hot PPC by removing the split, it would make the weapon feel more like a ballistic and would become at least partially viable option for clanners seeking to have a front loaded weapon that is not the deadly and sometimes unforgiving gauss.

(at this time, IMO Gauss is the best clan ballistic)

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...eapon_beam_clan

c-ERMed=7dmg-6heat
c-ERLgL=11dmg-10heat
c-LPL===13dmg-10heat
c-MPL===8dmg-6heat
c-ERppc=10+ 2.5+ 2.5dmg-15heat

Edited by zudukai, 30 April 2015 - 02:10 AM.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

One minor idea is tweak, splash and base damage.

So 11 / 3 / 1 total 15 damage

[MW Waldorf Statler]

with the terrible Hitreg in this Game ...PPCs very useless

[MeiSooHaityu]

CSJ Ranger, on 30 April 2015 - 02:07 AM, said:

with the terrible Hitreg in this Game ...PPCs very useless

Not in my experience, but then again, you are in Europe and the servers are in North America and that probably gives you a lot more latency than players in North America.

I'm not saying hitreg is perfect for NA players, but being in the US I can say PPCs are effective for me (even if they still false report occasionally).

[Thorqemada]

Imho the PPC is a pretty bad weapon atm - i only know the IS side but Dual PPCs were very underwhelming on my Blackjack BJ-3 testdrive and that thing is quirked for PPCs.

They must be somehow very borked - i swear i had shots on immobile targets and the hits splashed up on them but...to at best a negligible effect.

I play from Europe too and i do not have a clue why PPCs should be affected by ping as they have no burntime.
But maybe the Energy/Projectile nature of the PPC cant be handled well by the Cry-engine.

Edited by Thorqemada, 30 April 2015 - 02:23 AM.

[Mister Raven]

Lulz.. even MWLL had problems with PPC hit reg.

this amuses me. but only slightly

[Soy]

cERPPC is a fringe-legit ****** weapon on quirk-tilted Nova...

...issue is most related to heat but the speed of the projectile has taken them to a point where if you hit 8/10 on a LL turret stalker at 1000 meters on other side of a CW gate...... you will win that exhange, and about 4 or 5 others before you're in any sort of armor trouble unless you tart your own legs off after 15 mins. Before, without the accuracy boost downwind of projectile speed increase [quirkage], then hitting only 5/10 means you might not lose that engagement, but you aren't putting out enough damage fast enough consistently enough to kill these guys and help your team.

All of the nerfs have taken out the ability for poptarted PPCs to maintain damage output along the lines of other similar weapons, this is due to lots of things... not always things people 'consider' in a vacuum... ie, JJ heat means more downtime between shots, means less DPS, means you aren't just going bangbangbangbangbang, so it's not like it used to be. It shouldn't be.

Right now that Nova is very very very close to where old poptarting was, minus the ability to run other tactics like charging full steam ahead like a psycho cuz you could still pump them out fast enough up close to dump on brawlers... with heat and cycle time [at least in comparison to other weps] and all the ranged hitscan, can't just brute that type of junk anymore... you're running into a buzzsaw... whereas before you could afford tossing an alpha on the way in to suppress some other guy grabbin LoS on your press in and they couldn't stare even as a secondary target without risk... so anyways, these days, that sort of heat currently cannot be just tossed around like that... right now as it stands, PPC tarters have a particular role in a legit way rather than being supreme prevalence in any role/range/matchup.

Long story short a couple builds and situations it can truly counter the best turrets and snipers that the IS has to offer, but, beyond that.......... meet cLPL and get to know it, that's gonna be your best bet in a holistic sense. Me... Ima ppc guy, all day, get at me ****.

Edited by Soy, 30 April 2015 - 02:39 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Thorqemada, on 30 April 2015 - 02:20 AM, said:

Imho the PPC is a pretty bad weapon atm - i only know the IS side but Dual PPCs were very underwhelming on my Blackjack BJ-3 testdrive and that thing is quirked for PPCs.

They must be somehow very borked - i swear i had shots on immobile targets and the hits splashed up on them but...to at best a negligible effect.

I play from Europe too and i do not have a clue why PPCs should be affected by ping as they have no burntime.
But maybe the Energy/Projectile nature of the PPC cant be handled well by the Cry-engine.

Latency. By the time your client copy verifys things like your location, enemy location, movement direction, speed, etc... from the server, things may appear different on your screen vs what the server sees.

Therefore you fire a shot, it appears to hit because your client shows the enemy in your cross hair, but the server sees the enemy in a slightly different position and sees your shot as a miss. This issue gets worse (even for NA players) when 130kph+ lights run at full speed (hence the lag shield).

The server needs to verify everything constantly and the worse the ping or latency, the more desynced things can get.

The game could have the client handle more of the load, and some games do, but that leaves the game more susceptible to hacks and cheats because the client tells the server what is happening instead of the server verifying it.

This current way is more cheat resistant, but it does make latency and lag create even more of a pain.

[Mirumoto Izanami]

I would think the CERPPC would do for a normalized 12 damage (no split), still 15 heat, and a faster base velocity, perhaps up to 1150. However, regular PPC and ERPPCs would also need matching velocity increases.

Leery of giving the weapon straight 15 up front damage.

[Paigan]

It needs to have WAY higher projectile speed.

A long range weapon that can't possibly hope to hit a moving target at optimal range is just a joke.
Currently, ER PPCs are only good to lay siege on landed drop ships at max range. And well, those aren't in the game.

Double the projectile velocity, then they might be wort being used compared to lasers.

Edited by Paigan, 30 April 2015 - 04:41 AM.

[Fuggles]

projectile speed is certainly the biggest concern. Im fine with the splash damage we really dont need more pinpoint. the clpl has technically higher pinpoint for less heat and hitscan BUT it does still have a duration so twisting mechs will spread damage.

the biggest issue is velocity because compared to the clpl the cerppc advantage is range wich to be honest is silly considering hitting moving mechs from the 600m-800m range (where the cerppc has the advantage) is very difficult.

basically the cerppc needs to have a role in comparison to the clpl, and on paper that role seems to be range wich it cant currently utilize (even in my warhawk with tc and erppc velocity quirks).

[Blacksoul1987]

Soy, on 30 April 2015 - 02:29 AM, said:

cERPPC is a fringe-legit ****** weapon on quirk-tilted Nova...

...issue is most related to heat but the speed of the projectile has taken them to a point where if you hit 8/10 on a LL turret stalker at 1000 meters on other side of a CW gate...... you will win that exhange, and about 4 or 5 others before you're in any sort of armor trouble unless you tart your own legs off after 15 mins. Before, without the accuracy boost downwind of projectile speed increase [quirkage], then hitting only 5/10 means you might not lose that engagement, but you aren't putting out enough damage fast enough consistently enough to kill these guys and help your team.

All of the nerfs have taken out the ability for poptarted PPCs to maintain damage output along the lines of other similar weapons, this is due to lots of things... not always things people 'consider' in a vacuum... ie, JJ heat means more downtime between shots, means less DPS, means you aren't just going bangbangbangbangbang, so it's not like it used to be. It shouldn't be.

Right now that Nova is very very very close to where old poptarting was, minus the ability to run other tactics like charging full steam ahead like a psycho cuz you could still pump them out fast enough up close to dump on brawlers... with heat and cycle time [at least in comparison to other weps] and all the ranged hitscan, can't just brute that type of junk anymore... you're running into a buzzsaw... whereas before you could afford tossing an alpha on the way in to suppress some other guy grabbin LoS on your press in and they couldn't stare even as a secondary target without risk... so anyways, these days, that sort of heat currently cannot be just tossed around like that... right now as it stands, PPC tarters have a particular role in a legit way rather than being supreme prevalence in any role/range/matchup.

Long story short a couple builds and situations it can truly counter the best turrets and snipers that the IS has to offer, but, beyond that.......... meet cLPL and get to know it, that's gonna be your best bet in a holistic sense. Me... Ima ppc guy, all day, get at me ****.

Just want to reiterate this. Nova is good also warhawk with ppc's and targeting computer is fun as well, wouldn't call it competitive by any means but is workable and enjoyable in cw and pugs.

[FupDup]

It's because all PPCs work like this right now:

[Fate 6]

CERPPC damage could go up to 15 and everything else about it remain the same - it is supposed to be a high heat heavy hitter. Then, reduce IS ERPPC/PPC heat to keep it in line with the trend of IS weapons having less heat.

Additionally, increase velocity by 20 or 30 percent

[xWiredx]

Every time I see "deadly erppc" on Sarna in reference to a clan mech carrying one, I laugh to myself and then silently weep thinking about what could have been.

Honestly, I think PGI needs to be more consistent on this weapon. Either reduce the pinpoint on the IS ppc/erppc and give it splash damage as well, or make the clan erppc all pinpoint. I would be fine conceding to 13/1/1, but honestly I think their approach to this was dumb from the start.

[Mister Blastman]

@ Zudukai--give teh Summoner two high mount torso energy hardpoints and make ERPPCs 15 pts one spot and you got a deal.

[Dolph Hoskins]

Does anybody else use targeting computers with these things?

I like em.

[Lily from animove]

Well I se it on my adder.

The issue is more than 2 ERPPC's make no sense on a mech, they run hot, no matter if 20 or 30DHS on it. And so no one actually would need more ppc's
But their dps is weak and low due to the heat. And then they do extremely badly synchrnise with other weapons. Which is nearly invalidating any kind of mixed usage of them.

Main issue may be the way how they are translated to MWO, in TT they have a RoF of 10seconds here ist 4, and with the MWO heatmechanics and RoF one ERPPC means actually 2.5 TTERPPC's. And of course this can not be properly cooled by anything that exists. And so heat heavily limits the true DS of this weapon system, making it a rather pointles niche.

because if is actually somehow a slow, high heat Ac 10. But its heat generation makes combined use wth other heat generating wepaons impractical. And most B loadouts are heavy and prefer the usage of lighter lasers as backup


changed can probably the follwing: increase Rate of fire to 7seconds. massively buff projectile speed to maybe 3.000m/s This way the PPC will get a real own function instead of being an ammoless slow and low damage Gauss with too much heat. And it can be a true long range sniping tool, ammo independend hot, but nearly instant.

[Knyx]

Here is my suggestion:

Increase C-ERPPC velocity by 75% (1.75x)

Switch the charge mechanic from the C- Gauss rifle and give it to the C-ERPPC (so the C-gauss will no longer need to be charged). However with 1 slight alteration, there would be no "window" where you are forced to fire. You could hold and charge the C-ERPPC indefinitely before firing (release). When charging the C-ERPPC heat builds up like it would be if you were firing a long duration laser, and when charge is full, that is when the weapon is at max heat. When full charge is being held heat will dissipate at the mechs normal rate but will stop before all of the heat the C-ERPPC generated is dissipated until the weapon is fired.

So as an example (the math is gonna be prob way off) if you have 2 C-ERPPCs in your build, you charge both to full at the same time, your mech would gain 30% when both are fully charged and then the heat would dissipate until reaching 15% where it will remain until the weapons are fired.

[MeiSooHaityu]

You people and your fast PPCs. PPCs are lightning fast right now as it is.

Now THIS is proper PPC velocity...


Honestly, they could try bumping the PPC velocity up about 20%. I wouldn't mind seeing it faster, but I remember the last time it was faster, things were a bit crazy on the alpha strike front because they synced up a little too well with ballistics. That's why I would hate to see it as much as double the velocity.

It's probably less of an issue for the clan ERPPC since clan ballistics are burst and the gauss already has a charge mechanic. Thing is, bump the clan velocity and the IS velocity should be bumped too. Then you have that old alpha problem again. I'm guessing it would be worse with the jump sniper meta curbed, but it still would be an issue.

Knyx, on 30 April 2015 - 06:35 AM, said:

Here is my suggestion:

Increase C-ERPPC velocity by 75% (1.75x)

Switch the charge mechanic from the C- Gauss rifle and give it to the C-ERPPC

I've suggested something similar once. It was not popular. People just hate the charge mechanic so much that they are unwilling to consider it. Besides, I would still keep the charge on the Gauss regardless, but alter the charge times so a pilot can't easily sync them.

Still, not a popular suggestion regardless.