307 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Remove all quirks. Clan xl works like is xl. Let them select either xl or same weight std. Do a hitbox/resize and hardpoint pass on all mechs both IS and Clan. Make everything reasonably viable.

However PGI never goea back to the drawing board. If something doesn't work they leave it in and add something else. This creates an environment of broken mechanics stacked on broken mechanics.

The IS/Clan balance will never be fixed. Ever. It was introduced broken and will remain broken. They will leave it until a year or more from now they will introduce another broken mechanic that will partially offset it.

Part of good leadership skills is a willingness to remove or rework a bad or broken product or process instead of trying to 'save' the perceived investment value. The term is 'sunk cost fallacy'. Sticking with a bad idea because you put so much into it. It has become a mwo design pillar.

Which is frustrating and unfortunate. Mwo has some concepts to it that are phenomenal. Cw in theory could be a seminal moment in MOBA faction vs faction gaming. At this point though there is no reason to believe PGI is willing to go that direction.

Edited by MischiefSC, 05 May 2015 - 07:02 AM.

[Gyrok]

Gas Guzzler, on 03 May 2015 - 09:16 AM, said:

What elements of the top tier community think that? All the ones I have seen talk about this agree that Clan mechs are at least slightly superior, and this is shown in that most of their competitive drop decks consist of primarily clan mechs, with the exception of lights.

Multiple members of top tier comp units have admitted to me that some IS mechs are stronger in areas than clan mechs. Particularly, CW, with the attack lane maps, limited engagement angles, and effectively 25% of the map being in play, plays extremely strongly for the IS. The clans can level the playing field if they can use mobility to flank and strike quickly, but in a static fight, straight up...IS wins more than they lose.

[Gyrok]

Ultimatum X, on 05 May 2015 - 06:46 AM, said:

Let's see.

3x LLAS = 27 Damage at 450m
15 tons

6x MLAS = 30 Damage at 270m
6 Tons

Total Tonnage = 21 tons

Total = 57 damage

45 heat

Functionally two range brackets, with overlap at under 270m



2x CLPLs = 26 damage at 600m
12 tons

4x CERMLAS = 28 damage at 405m
4 tons

Total Tonnage = 16 tons

Total Damage = 54

44 heat

Functionally two range brackets, with overlap under 405m

Can add 5 extra heatsinks above the IS build.




Bu...bu...but muh clan mechs run too hawt!!


This isn't rocket science, without quirks or better hardpoint placement - we can pretty much surmise exactly how good the BK will actually be.

Hmm...you think it will have no quirks?

Silly IS fanboy...that would never happen...

[kapusta11]

Gyrok, on 05 May 2015 - 07:02 AM, said:

Hmm...you think it will have no quirks?

Silly IS fanboy...that would never happen...

Well, in order to match TBR it needs:

• 30% accel/decel/torso twist rate to compensate for the lack of JJs and still lower speed
  
• 5% movement speed
  
• 21 armor and 21 internal structure for STs to compensate for the lack of CXL engine
  
• 50% ML range
  
• 30% LL range
  
• 10% heat gen quirk to compensate for the lack of 5 additional heatsinks
  
• I doubt it will be smaller than Grasshopper so that needs to be addressed as well

You might say "then it will keep whopping 0.15 sec lower burn time and 3 more damage" but I highly doubt it will receive the level of quirks mentioned above to begin with.

Edited by kapusta11, 05 May 2015 - 07:40 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Let's just pick ONE(1) Mech form each weight class, the BEST of the BEST, and make ALL the others in those same weight classes exactly the same. Would save a lot of whining and outright BS on the Forums right?

Every weight class has one(1) superior build. Just template it and BUFF the rest to Match. Then we can all just play four (4) ******* Mechs, one from each of the weight classes, and they will all be the same, all the time. Then maybe, just maybe, the incessant whining can stop.

That is also a sure fire way to liven up MWO's game play.

[Gyrok]

kapusta11, on 05 May 2015 - 07:36 AM, said:

Well, in order to match TBR it needs:

• 30% accel/decel/torso twist rate to compensate for the lack of JJs and still lower speed
  
• 5% movement speed
  
• 21 armor and 21 internal structure for STs to compensate for the lack of CXL engine
  
• 50% ML range
  
• 30% LL range
  
• 10% heat gen quirk to compensate for the lack of 5 additional heatsinks
  
• I doubt it will be smaller than Grasshopper so that needs to be addressed as well

You might say "then it will keep whopping 0.15 sec lower burn time and 3 more damage" but I highly doubt it will receive the level of quirks mentioned above to begin with.

The 385 engine cap says hello...(bigger than TW engine option...)

Also, as for the rest of that...you are making some awfully big assumptions there...

Almond Brown, on 05 May 2015 - 07:59 AM, said:

Let's just pick ONE(1) Mech form each weight class, the BEST of the BEST, and make ALL the others in those same weight classes exactly the same. Would save a lot of whining and outright BS on the Forums right?

Every weight class has one(1) superior build. Just template it and BUFF the rest to Match. Then we can all just play four (4) ******* Mechs, one from each of the weight classes, and they will all be the same, all the time. Then maybe, just maybe, the incessant whining can stop.

That is also a sure fire way to liven up MWO's game play.

My god, this is pure gold, somebody finally gets it!

[kapusta11]

Almond Brown, on 05 May 2015 - 07:59 AM, said:

Let's just pick ONE(1) Mech form each weight class, the BEST of the BEST, and make ALL the others in those same weight classes exactly the same. Would save a lot of whining and outright BS on the Forums right?

Every weight class has one(1) superior build. Just template it and BUFF the rest to Match. Then we can all just play four (4) ******* Mechs, one from each of the weight classes, and they will all be the same, all the time. Then maybe, just maybe, the incessant whining can stop.

That is also a sure fire way to liven up MWO's game play.

But you (community) don't like alternatives with equal performance, look where TDR 9S is at. Anyone uses PPCs right now after the single viable platform was nerfed (on your demand mind you)? Who called to nerf splat SRMs? Gauss charge? IS AC velocity? PGI made Clan ACs burst fire JUST AS YOU ASKED, look at were they at. LRMs are as good as the enemy team is bad, they are simply unreliable with the amount of time it takes to get a lock and for missiles to reach the target, and you're STILL crying about them. It's YOU who don't want alternatives and the only reason why lasers are current meta is because PGI haven't listened to your moaning, yet.

Gyrok, on 05 May 2015 - 08:07 AM, said:

The 385 engine cap says hello...(bigger than TW engine option...)

Also, as for the rest of that...you are making some awfully big assumptions there...

Can't even cherry-pick properly, oh my.

Edited by kapusta11, 05 May 2015 - 08:24 AM.

[Gyrok]

kapusta11, on 05 May 2015 - 08:14 AM, said:

But you (community) don't like alternatives with equal performance, look where TDR 9S is at. Anyone uses PPCs right now after the single viable platform was nerfed (on your demand mind you). Who called to nerf splat SRMs? Gauss charge? IS AC velocity? PGI made Clan ACs burst fire JUST AS YOU ASKED, look at were they at. LRMs are as good as the enemy team is bad, they are simply unreliable with the amount of time it takes to get a lock and for missiles to reach it's target, and you're STILL crying about them. It's YOU who don't want alternatives, the only reason why lasers are current meta is because PGI haven't listened to your moaning, yet.

I never asked for burst fire ACs. I was ok with it, that is what PGI proposed AFAIK. Though, I was under the assumption that LBX would have single shot alternate fire mode...instead of burst fire CAC place holders...

I never requested Gauss charge up, I never requested SRMs to be nerfed, and I could not care less if LRMs are ever effective because indirect fire in a shooter should be nuked from orbit, then plunged into gasoline and set on fire.

[CDLord HHGD]

Damn, so late to this party...

There are no DOA mechs. Only DOA playstyles.

[AlmightyAeng]

Shiven, on 30 April 2015 - 02:39 PM, said:

It's not like we have any good options right now for a 75 ton mech. (Does anyone even use the orion?)

I had someone tell me the other day it's good and that it's just that no one knows how to use it.

[Telmasa]

Ghost Badger, on 05 May 2015 - 08:32 AM, said:

I had someone tell me the other day it's good and that it's just that no one knows how to use it.

I've seen maybe 2 good Orion pilots throughout my whole MWO experience.

So it's possible, just evidently very very very unlikely to get a handle on it. (I tried an Orion once, and while I didn't bother to upgrade/elite the thing & it was before any quirks, I don't think I'm one of those pilots. Same reason I'm terrible with brawler Atlas "meta" builds, really.)

The Orion...its hardpoints suggest an all-rounder, master-of-nothing but jack-of-all-trades kind of loadout.

Which puts it at the bottom of the heap when everything is min/max meta, meta, meta. Like the Atlas, it needs some durability quirks. (Heck, anything I've read about the Orion says that structure/armor quirks would fit canonicity anyway...)

[Gas Guzzler]

Gyrok, on 05 May 2015 - 06:58 AM, said:

Multiple members of top tier comp units have admitted to me that some IS mechs are stronger in areas than clan mechs. Particularly, CW, with the attack lane maps, limited engagement angles, and effectively 25% of the map being in play, plays extremely strongly for the IS. The clans can level the playing field if they can use mobility to flank and strike quickly, but in a static fight, straight up...IS wins more than they lose.

I care more about what I would take in to a comp match with EmP or SJR or similar, not CW.

In CW, the balance differences are typically overridden by teamwork and strategy, and I typically don't even take fully optimized decks because it isn't really needed/worth it. For instance, my most common drop deck lately consists of a HGN, GHR, Sparky, and FS9, which only has 1 full meta element, and it is slightly morphed to be more applicable to fighting clans in CW instead of fully competitive.

[InRev]

Ghost Badger, on 05 May 2015 - 08:32 AM, said:

I had someone tell me the other day it's good and that it's just that no one knows how to use it.

I love that response. It's basically a capitulation. "I have absolutely no empirical evidence to support my confirmation bias, so I am just going to assert something that can never be proven"

Thankfully, I think most reasonable people see through it, at this point.

[Ragtag soldier]

InRev, on 05 May 2015 - 06:44 PM, said:

I love that response. It's basically a capitulation. "I have absolutely no empirical evidence to support my confirmation bias, so I am just going to assert something that can never be proven"

Thankfully, I think most reasonable people see through it, at this point.

the orion is good in it's role. the problem is it's role is to be front and center at a straight push on the enemy, and MWO is all about not doing that. i've managed to trick a pack of pubbers into following along on it a couple times, and it it just doesn't fall fast enough for the enemy to break the momentum so the enemy usually scrambles and loses.

that said, it's nearly impossible to make the push in this game, since there's more useless snipers in the average match than a TF2 trade_plaza server.

[Lord Letto]

[Telmasa]

InRev, on 05 May 2015 - 06:44 PM, said:

I love that response. It's basically a capitulation. "I have absolutely no empirical evidence to support my confirmation bias, so I am just going to assert something that can never be proven"

Thankfully, I think most reasonable people see through it, at this point.

Are you talking about the Orion guy or Ghost Badger? That logic appears to apply to both, to me. lol

[Brody319]

I think the Black knight is beautiful, and I would pilot it if I had money, regardless of how low the energy points are.

[Jaspbo1]

Sure, high mounted weapons....The Grasshopper got away with it only because they decided to make it Banshee size. The Black Knight will in no doubt be shorter but chunkier.

I think this thread is pretty dumb tbh. If you can pilot a 'mech it isn't DOA, adapt to the 'mech, don't let the 'mech adapt to you because not every 'mech has double gauss and double AC20's.

I'mma say eet.
reL2P

[Christof Romulus]

I hope the Black Knight is the size of an Urban mech.

I would laugh. So. Hard.

[Spleenslitta]

Here is something that will surprise you.

I looked at the Clan light mechs and said the same thing. They where dead on arrival.

Now i stand seriously corrected. I was wrong.
The Kit Fox turned out to be nearly perfect for my weird tactics and it ain't even elited yet.
I have only basiced out 2 variants.