1189 replies to this topic

[Sludgecrawler]

The Imperial Navy from Warhammer 40,000.
But, maybe it would not be a fair fight to include it in the above poll, hmm?

[ManDaisy]

remade poll. Have fun.

[Kodiak Jorgensson]

Sludgecrawler, on 29 November 2011 - 01:42 PM, said:

The Imperial Navy from Warhammer 40,000.
But, maybe it would not be a fair fight to include it in the above poll, hmm?

you choose imperium, ill choose the tyranid hive fleet (iam a imperium/sm fan my self) i voted for trek however, its my fav sci-fi and there are sevral stupidly powerfull factions with in the univers of trek.

[Damocles]

Damocles, on 28 November 2011 - 09:37 PM, said:

Nothing beats Davion ramming speed!

And you will fear my foxteeth!

[Sludgecrawler]

Kodiak Jorgensson, on 29 November 2011 - 02:12 PM, said:

you choose imperium, ill choose the tyranid hive fleet (iam a imperium/sm fan my self) i voted for trek however, its my fav sci-fi and there are sevral stupidly powerfull factions with in the univers of trek.

Bah! If even those degenerate Tau could destroy an entire splinter fleet without losing one single ship I can't imagine you'd be much trouble for the Imperium's finest!
Just stay in front of and well away from us with those tentacles and we'll show you!

About Star Trek: http://www.xibalba.d...r/trek/gen.html
I read an even better flowchart several years ago that applied to every spin-off also, but seem unable to find it now.
Star Trek is not a favourite of mine.

[rollermint]

The Eve Online universe, I suspect, can defeat a huge number of the other universes in that list. Their pilots/captains....CANNOT DIE. Yes, other universes have cloning technology as well but nothing as widespread that tech is in Eve. The Eve universe will win by sheer attrition, alone. Their tech is pretty formidable, if not, superior than most. Their frigates alone are practically one-man fighters. (conventional one man fighter sized ships are practically obsolete, except for drones).

I would say, that Eve space fleets are the only ones (or one of the very few) that can actually rip 40k a new one pretty handily.

[Gunman5000]

I voted Warhammer 40K, from my own knowledge of the above listed universes I'd say they are one of the most powerful out there, and they too (at least the Imperium) are in a technological decline to some degree like Battletech. Not alot of experience with EVE but I definately can see them winning through sheer attrition (despite the insane numbers of ships in the Imperial Navy or Tyranid Hive Fleets) but in a space battle where no reinforcements are available once the fight starts (ie, cloning won't do any good) I'd have to go with 40K

[Catamount]

rollermint, on 29 November 2011 - 03:33 PM, said:

The Eve Online universe, I suspect, can defeat a huge number of the other universes in that list. Their pilots/captains....CANNOT DIE. Yes, other universes have cloning technology as well but nothing as widespread that tech is in Eve. The Eve universe will win by sheer attrition, alone. Their tech is pretty formidable, if not, superior than most. Their frigates alone are practically one-man fighters. (conventional one man fighter sized ships are practically obsolete, except for drones).

I would say, that Eve space fleets are the only ones (or one of the very few) that can actually rip 40k a new one pretty handily.

I had never thought of this, but there might be something to this.

I'm not sure if it would help or hurt EVE, but EVE fleets would be absolutely fearless. Whether having no fear of death would strip them of due caution (something I've sure a proper soldier is trained to avoid), or more likely, simply open their thinking up a bit strategically, I'm not entirely sure, but either way, it would definitely play in.

[Ilithi Dragon]

Catamount, on 29 November 2011 - 04:15 PM, said:

I had never thought of this, but there might be something to this.

I'm not sure if it would help or hurt EVE, but EVE fleets would be absolutely fearless. Whether having no fear of death would strip them of due caution (something I've sure a proper soldier is trained to avoid), or more likely, simply open their thinking up a bit strategically, I'm not entirely sure, but either way, it would definitely play in.

I dunno... It would certainly give them certain advantages in tactics and strategy, but it wouldn't be THAT huge of an advantage. Wars of attrition are not won solely through body count. You can have all the people in the world, but they won't do you a lick of good in a space battle if you don't have any ships to put them in.

EVE fleets would have a very strong advantage in experienced, veteran ship commanders, an advantage that they would only expand over time provided they didn't start losing ground and losing cloning facilities, but they would still have to build ships to replace losses.

That there is a critical factor to consider. Industrial capacities are going to be a huge factor in any prolonged war scenario. With replicator and transporter technology, there are few that can even compare to Trek in overall industrial capacity, let alone pound-for-pound industrial capacity.

Edited by ilithi dragon, 29 November 2011 - 06:40 PM.

[ilontor]

I'll say, for ship to ship combat: Star Trek.
Not only are they powerfull from the start, but additionally i think a starfleet vessel would quickly adapt to any peril. Star Wars (even if i'm not nearly an expert at this 'universe') on comparison uses less focus on adapting to an enemy and more on über-Jedi/ultra-Siths.

But if we're talking war / planetary attack, an unmentioned party would win, at least in my opinion:
Halo / UNSC

Sure, their ships aren't nearly as strong as a Galaxy or Defiant-Class, but they have one mighty advantage - the cole protocol.
Enemies can defeat them easily, but it is very unlikely, that they can track their planets in vast space. Such a protocol is not common in the Starfleet or the Empire, as far as i know.


Please excuse poor grammar or spelling, as i'm part of the german group here.
And please don't take my opinion as a personal attack. (These kind of discussions tend to quickly get personal.)

[Catamount]

Halo is an oddball here. The UNSC's power source is nothing but fusion (the Covenant use a very inefficient form of M/AM power, afaik), and yet, they can somehow power those absurd MAC guns, which outstrip any franchise for energetic output, hands down, by orders of magnitude, especially pound-for-pound (those stations are big, but they're not THAT big).


We're talking outputs in the low-mid zettajoules (~I get 21.6, the Halo wiki gets ~2.16; maybe someone could double check my math?), because they can accelerate 3,000 tons (I assume metric tons) to 120,000km/s. How? I have no idea. I won't be surprised in the least if that figure is eventually called a typo or retconned, but for the moment, a MAC gun on an orbital defense platform can output the energy of about eighty thousand late 24th century photon torpedoes.

It's also worth noting that the 120,000km/s figure could be off, because it doesn't seem to match the fraction of c given on the same Halo wiki page. I don't know which is correct, but I'm assuming that figure is here. Even if it's off by a couple orders of magnitude, it wouldn't really change the implications much here

You could argue that one of those would never actually strike a moving vessel

[Ilithi Dragon]

The Cole Protocol works in the Halo universe because interstellar sensor ranges and capabilities are pretty limited. Not even the Covenant can scan an area and detect habitable worlds or worlds with ships/stations around them, or track a ship while it's in FTL or anything like that. You can get an idea of where the ship is going by tracing it's path on jump-out and extrapolating a straight line out because slipspace jumps in Halo only allow travel in straight lines (hence the requirement for the Cole Protocol), but that is not a guaranteed protection. Against many universes it would be, because (going by Official/Movie Canon, not EU Canon) Star Wars does not have any kind of long-range sensor tech like that, nor does BSG, Battletech, nor Warhammer as far as I know. EVE does not appear to have any kind of extended-range sensors that allow scanning beyond a local starsystem either, as far as I can tell. Stargate, however, does have some pretty impressive long-range sensor capabilities, especially later on, and the long-range sensors on Atlantis were capable of detecting ships in hyperspace across a large portion of the Pegasus Dwarf Irregular Galaxy, at a range of 3 weeks travel for a Wraith hive ship.

Star Trek is very much an exception to this, however, because Star Trek has incredible sensor capabilities. Long-range scanners can provide remarkably precise data from lightyears away. By the 2360s, routine scans have a range of three lightyears. A Galaxy class starship has a sensor range of at least ten lightyears, the detection range the E-D had on the USS Phoenix, which did not want to be found, and other instances have shown even larger scanning ranges, such as in VOY "The Raven", they conducted a scan for Borg vessels within a radius of forty lightyears.

Star Trek has hands-down the best sensor technology of any franchise, with the -possible- exception of the Ancient/Lantean civilization in Stargate (which appears to have had comparable sensor technology). The Cole Protocol would be useless against Star Trek ships.

[Vincent Vascaul]

Where does Schlock Mercenary fit into all of this?

[Yeach]

What no Wingcommander
or Mass effect?
Starship Troopers?

[Grayson Pryde]

There are way to many things to vote. And even if i like Star Wars, Star Trek and Battletech but Warhammer 40k would easily win. Just think about the deamon ships and the freaking warp. It doesnt matter if you have shields or anything when hell itself manifests on your ship and slaughter your crew.

[GaussDragon]

It's interesting how different sci-fi prioritizes certain capabilities over others. In the spirit of the poll, I voted for Star Trek mainly because I watched it the most as a kid but also two things stick out that have previously been mentioned:

Mad sensor ranges
Pewpew at FTL speeds

Though you should have included another option on that poll: The Infinite Super Mega Happy Destructo Well Over 9000 GaussDragon Wondernaughts™... They can engage in FTL warfare, extra-galactic communication ranges and their most nefarious weapon of all - The Universal Imaginator. The Universal Imaginator is a weapon of mass one-upmanship. Whenever some franchise or intellectual property comes along and curbstomps prevailing technology, the Universal Imaginator simply makes up new **** that automatically ***** on whatever was ******** on it moments before.

[Xhaleon]

Hey Catamount, ya don't have to type up a gigantic essay telling people about the ICS. Just direct them to sites like http://www.st-v-sw.net/. If they didn't already get that the ICS is literally literary fanwank and is illegible for serious discussion, then they will never get it.

I did vote Star Trek, of course. The moment they realize their advantage of Faster Than Light realspace combat abilities (I am not sure of the capabilities of a number of series in the poll), they will abuse, Abuse, ABUSE it. Practically no one could touch them, and they could adopt scorched earth tactics on the defensive or offensive because lolreplicators.

That, and a few of the more eccentric methods of them "winning" include 1: TimeFleet patrolling the timeline to save their butt anytime someone from another universe comes and attacks them (breach of normal timeline and avoidance of time paradox), who with their time-based weapons and defenses would absolutely RAPE RAPE RAPE most other universes, and 2: Q loving Picard so much that he casually flicks any invaders back into their own universe when the Enterprise gets threatened.

AKA justified and weaponized plot armor.

[Perfecto Oviedo]

I'd have to say trek, not just because I'm a massive trekky. I find their tactics to be superior and their knowledge of large scale capital fleet engagements to be superior to powers like star trek. Not to say it wouldn't be a bloody battle.

Xhaleon, on 03 December 2011 - 04:53 AM, said:

Hey Catamount, ya don't have to type up a gigantic essay telling people about the ICS. Just direct them to sites like http://www.st-v-sw.net/. If they didn't already get that the ICS is literally literary fanwank and is illegible for serious discussion, then they will never get it.

I was literally JUST about to post to that page....good show though, I'm glad more people know about it.

For those interested in how the Federation and the Empire would stack up, here's the overview page to that website: http://st-v-sw.net/STSWcompare.html

I find it to be a balanced look at the strengths and weaknesses of both powers.

[Artanis Creed]

W40k ftw.

[althorin]

I like alot of Scifi but i have to vote WH40K.

There is a vast scale differance between 40k ships and trek for instance torpedoes trek ones come in @ about 2m long where as 40k regularly quotes them as the size of a large office block and the ship-torpiedo scale is about the same.

and the warp is a complete oddball in terms of power as it does not annialate but corrupts and changes but battleship lances are good lazer equivilents and broadside batteries are also mentiond

so tech wise i would say battletech on a bigger scale + the warp for chaos fleets.

sensor wise 40k has mid range sensors but also has astropaths which can sense/communicate across large sectors of the galxay.

and as for Q put him up against any of the chaos gods and see how long he lasts.