293 replies to this topic

[Skarlock]

Inveramsay, on 02 May 2015 - 02:09 AM, said:

The big data sets don't lie and it would appear that the game is pretty well balanced. Very well balanced in fact. Look at the damage and kill numbers, they are within a fraction of a percentage of each other.

We need the win percentage to be sure. Remember, clans were 100% in attack mode, so half of the games, clans win by destroying omega, not necessarily killing all the enemy mechs. IS could *only* win by destroying mechs or by time out, and if the enemy is paying attention, they'll attack omega and either die or destroy omega before time runs out. The fact that PGI did *not* release this data says to me says they specifically don't want to release it, because it would open up a whole can of worms by indicating the game isn't as balanced as people think.

There are some problems though with Tukayyid, as the population imbalance led to a lot of people who have more experience, cbills, and mechs switching to the clan side. So I think a lot of more experienced players went over to a different faction to help out with the population imbalance, and/or to get faster games.

[Svarn Lornon]

Alistair Winter, on 01 May 2015 - 05:15 PM, said:

A lot of people complained about 50 points for the biggest prize, but almost 2000 people played to 50 points and almost 3000 played to 40 points. With numbers like these, I can see why PGI keeps raising the bar. Some people really, really play a lot

Actually it was pretty hard work to reach the 40 points (at least for me) and with the original event duration of only the weekend it wouldn't have been possible at all! As it is I basically grinded every available hour and got the 40 1-2 hours before the event ended and that's with only 2 matches were I didn't qualify.

[Hayashi]

Let me get you a few extra processed stats, along with comments on what each one means.

Effectiveness of each faction

---

Victory Points per player:

Kurita: 20512/2092 = 9.805
Liao: 5420/685 = 7.912
Rasalhague: 13288/1812 = 7.333
Steiner: 19315/2661 = 7.259
Marik: 8544/1221 = 6.998
Davion: 11236/2019 = 5.565
IS average: 78315/10490 = 7.466

Falcon: 19427/1516 = 12.81
Wolf: 34350/2956 = 11.62
Jaguar: 12632/1110 = 11.38
Ghost Bear: 19157/1862 = 10.29
Clan Average: 85566/7444 = 11.49

The obvious disparity between the VP/player numbers between the IS and Clan factions indicate that on average, Clan players would have dropped 53.9% more often than IS players. To conclude anything as to whether this would have influenced the effect mercenary premades had on the overall results requires more stats from Tina re: how many 12man drops vs how many non-12man drops there were per house. The effects of [228] alone on Kurita would probably have contributed to its massive victory point-per-person advantage.

Let's just say that you probably want to stay away from Davion and Ghost Bear, though, while Falcon and Kurita probably have the most dedicated players, between their mercs and their house loyalists.

Overall results

---

The Clans earned 85566 victory points while the Inner Sphere earned 78315 victory points, therefore the Clan:IS win ratio is about 33:30. However, the final result was 36 Clan : 27 IS, which indicates the current way of determining the overall win/loss is still too dependent on the last few hours, and not reflective of the overall situation.

Given that a Counterattack favours IS (Clan loses ground if they lose, they win nothing if they hold territory) and an Invasion favours Clan (IS loses ground if they lose, they win nothing if they successfully defend), there being 8.56% more Counterattacks than Invasions means the mode favoured IS more - which is probably due to the system allocating Counterattacks and Invasions by the ratio of nodes on the map (supported by how on average the clans held 10% more nodes than IS - reasonably close to the 8.56% mode bias) - the more nodes you possess, the more Counterattacks occur and the fewer Invasions occur. While on paper this is a good thing as it results in closer end-results, in matchmaking this is an unfair thing if one side ONLY attacks and the other ONLY defends, as whichever side is leading will be given an exponentially increasing disadvantage.

Incidentally, as more Clan mechs were destroyed and IS players dealt more damage, the main reason for their greater victory ratio in spite of this was Clans having exclusive access to the Invasion mode. In Counterattack, to win, both sides have to have a kill lead (attackers also need to destroy Omega in addition to this) - but in Invasion, kill leads are irrelevant. Given more clan mechs were destroyed, the Clan victories were not due to base domination, but due to the destruction of the Omega objective.

It might be arguable that in the absence of an Omega kill victory condition the Clans would have had a greater kill ratio than they have at present due to the partially suicidal nature of Omega rushes, but the high deployment of Stormcrows and the kill ratios indicate that Invasion Omega Stormcrow rushes were a decisive factor behind the overall Tukayyid win, in spite of a matchmaker system which favoured the IS - and if the matchmaker was more fair, the overall number of victories by the Clans would have been even greater. The 'final' decision of win-loss, however, was not linked in any way to the overall victory rate, and is dependent entirely on the events of the last few hours of the event.

Ghost Drops

---

Player-Drops per faction:

The number of mechs deployed in total divided by 4 is the number of players involved per side multiplied by the number of matches, as each player can bring 4 mechs.

Clan = (114478+205358+304425+44751)/4 = 167253
IS = (134890+144825+240195+149310)/4 = 167305

Given that there should be 12 players per side in a match, dividing these, we get a total of:

Clan = 167253/12 = 13937.75 matches.
IS = 167305/12 = 13942.08 matches.

Possible reasons why these numbers are not integers is that some matches start with less than 12 players per side because of disconnects, and one side may not even have any players at all in a ghost drop. As the number of players are about 52 different, we might be able to assume that at maximum, 4 ghost drops occurred out of 13942, or an insignificant rate of 0.03%.

Also, the earlier official base stat declared a total of 334558 drops, where 334558 also happens to be the total number of pilots dropped if we add the Clan and IS numbers above. For obvious reasons, the number of pilots dropped is not the same as the number of drops - it's off by a factor of 24.

With a total of 13942 matches the total number of destroyed mechs is 961974, which indicates an average of 69 mechs destroyed in total per match between both sides. Given a total of 96 mechs are brought in, 72% of mechs used in a match are destroyed.

IS-Clan/Mech Balance

---

Also, the large dominance of Thunderbolts, Stalker-4N, Raven-3L, Stormcrows, Hellbringers and Timberwolves should probably signal to some people than some changes should be made. Just look at the numbers of mechs used, bring up the quirks for mechs like the Kintaro and Gargoyle, and bring down some of the quirks for the top few, hmm?

The EXTREMELY SMALL number of Clan Lights and Assaults (especially Clan Assaults) deployed should also send certain signals regarding the effectiveness of Clan Assaults and Lights in an environment where only overall tonnage matters.

Given that close to zero ghost drops occurred from earlier estimation, we can assume that the damage parity between IS and Clan signals that the tech trees' relative damage per second in practice for the most used mechs are in balance when IS is given a 1/24 tonnage advantage. Works well for CW, but it would conversely indicate the Clan variants are still more powerful per ton when used in a public drop context for the most used mechs. Nobody can conclude anything about UrbanMech vs Gargoyle really from these results given that nearly nobody used them.

Given that 5% more friendly fire occurred for Clan pilots... you draw your own conclusions. Could be a weapon duration thing, could be a lack of fire discipline thing, could be a lack of piloting discipline thing.

Map Balance

---

Given the map rotation Cold=>Hot=>Purple=>Black=>Green on 63 slots, and assuming all slots have an equal chance to be contested, the number of times a map is played is inversely proportional to the time it takes per map. Correcting for the number of slots each map possesses, we thus have the time per map ratios:

Grim Portico = 65788/12 = 5482
Boreal Vault = 71222/13 = 5479
Emerald Taiga = 65149/12 = 5429
Sulphurous Rift = 66285/13 = 5099
Hellebore Springs = 66114/13 = 5086

Remember that a higher number means faster games - which implies the games are less balanced (as balanced matches conclude with timeout or close to it, while 1-way stomps end quickly). These numbers indicate Sulphurous Rift and Hellebore Springs are the two most balanced maps, while Portico, Boreal and Taiga are the most one-sided maps - which should surprise exactly nobody who played in this event. Would be interesting if Tina revealed the Invasion:Defense:Counterattack:Hold territory win/loss ratios on each of these maps, though I'd already predict in advance that Boreal and Portico favour defenders of both types, while Taiga favours attackers of both types.

Weight Class Balance

---

Weight class longevity:

IS Light: 102854/134890 = 76.3%
IS Medium: 112512/144825 = 77.7%
IS Heavy: 182823/240195 = 76.1%
IS Assault: 112456/149310 = 75.3%
Clan Light: 89270/114478 = 78.0%
Clan Medium: 156883/205358 = 76.4%
Clan Heavy: 239852/304425 = 78.8%
Clan Assault: 36113/44751 = 80.7%

Given the numbers of mechs taken includes the whole dropdeck (which is supported by how all the total numbers per side sum to exact multiples of 4), this % indicates both the relative willingness of a player to use the mech as well as how likely it is to be survive - high percentages mean these mechs are MORE likely to die.

Note in particular how 80.7% of all Clan assaults brought were destroyed, and how the destruction rate numbers are higher for every class on Clan relative to IS except mediums... then look at the rates at which Stormcrows were used. You can draw your own conclusions from there.

Interestingly there is a stat irregularity here as all of the mech classes are destroyed at a rate greater than 72%, but the overall number of mechs destroyed by match is 72%.

New Player Experience For CW

---

The challenge distribution was as follows:
8166 players got up to 10 points
2416 got 11-20 points
1214 got 21-30 points
1108 got 31-40 points
2767 got 41-50 points

For a total of 15671 players with points.

Since the total number of players was 17226, 1555 players played in the event and got zero challenge points (ergo, zero victories. In other words, 9% of all players got no points and decided to stop playing in the event from the outset, and 56% of all players stopped within the first 10 victory points - which means the minority of players are those who actually went further in the event. That indicates some work may have to be done to keep players actually playing CW - some factors, possibly the queue, possibly the matchmaking and possibly the game mode itself is turning off more people from playing than not.

Further Stat Requests For Ms. Tina Benoit

---

• Number of perm contract players vs number of lone wolves vs number of merc corps on temporary contracts for each faction
  
• Number of IS players vs number of Clan players per Challenge point tier
  
• Number of 12-man vs 12-man drops vs number of 12-man vs non-12 man drops vs number of non-12 man vs non-12 man drops, and the victory ratios of each
  
• Victory ratios per map per objective type
  
• Average kills per team per map (low kill numbers on a map on an Invasion team for instance may indicate a map is liable to be stormcrow/ice ferret/IS light-rushed)
  
• Complete list of all Merc Corps involved in each faction, the number of victory points contributed by each, the total number of games played by each as well as the number of active players per merc corp (where active = at least 1 game played the whole weekend).

Tl;dr Section

---

• Nerf SCR, TDR, TBR, STK-4N, etc. Buff AWS, VND, KTO, GAR etc.
  
• Stormcrow rush was major tactic here in the same way IS Light rush was major tactic in last event. Consider buffing OGen and Omega HP.
  
• Clans outperformed IS on the whole.
  
• Clans had much lower waiting time; more data needed to conclude whether this meant Clan premades had more relative power than IS premades. but it definitely made it easier to get 50 CP on Clan.
  
• More than half the population quit within the first 10 CP.
  
• 9% quit after losing their first few game(s).
  
• Grim Portico, Boreal Vault and Emerald Taiga are unbalanced.
  
• Clan Assaults are underpowered.
  
• Davion... sigh.
  
• Falcon actually performed best on Clan, not Wolf.
  
• Nearly no ghost-drops on Tukayyid.
  
• The last-hours effect method of determining a win is completely unrelated to overall performance, and should be scrapped.

Congratulations to the Clans for winning Tukayyid overall.

Additional edit: Turret/Dropship potential

---

Ace Selin, on 03 May 2015 - 11:02 PM, said:

This is a false stat. IS were defending so should have found kills easier for 2 reasons, they had the help of turrets and there were Clan rushes on Omega where Clans died 12-0. That means during the actual fights, the Clans won more often than not.

Actually this is probably the source of the stat irregularity I was wondering about. My best guess is that PGI counted 'number of mechs destroyed' by the number of player kills, while the number of destroyed per class is by the actual number of mechs destroyed.

Hayashi, on 02 May 2015 - 02:34 AM, said:

With a total of 13942 matches the total number of destroyed mechs is 961974, which indicates an average of 69 mechs destroyed in total per match between both sides. Given a total of 96 mechs are brought in, 72% of mechs used in a match are destroyed.

Weight class longevity:

IS Light: 102854/134890 = 76.3%
IS Medium: 112512/144825 = 77.7%
IS Heavy: 182823/240195 = 76.1%
IS Assault: 112456/149310 = 75.3%
Clan Light: 89270/114478 = 78.0%
Clan Medium: 156883/205358 = 76.4%
Clan Heavy: 239852/304425 = 78.8%
Clan Assault: 36113/44751 = 80.7%

Interestingly there is a stat irregularity here as all of the mech classes are destroyed at a rate greater than 72%, but the overall number of mechs destroyed by match is 72%.

So we have a new processed statistic here I missed on my first pass. The number of clan mechs destroyed by players is 481,187, but the total number destroyed is 522,118 - so 92.16% are destroyed by players and 7.84% are destroyed by turrets and dropships combined. The number of IS mechs destroyed by players is 480,787, but the total number destroyed is 510645 - so 94.15% are destroyed by players and 5.85% are destroyed by dropships alone (clans had zero access to turrets).

Attackers always have access to dropships with large lasers while defenders always have access to dropships with medium lasers, so regardless of which side you're on the dropship kill rate can be assumed to be approximately the same. That means turrets had an overall effect of destroying 1.99% of all players - and since Counterattack has no turrets, correcting for the overall occurrence rate of Invasion maps, the estimated potential of turrets is to kill 4.15% of targets in an Invasion map, or 2 mechs per match. It probably shouldn't surprise anyone that turrets are less effective than dropships.

Edited by Hayashi, 04 May 2015 - 01:13 AM.

[Skarlock]

Want0n, on 02 May 2015 - 12:13 AM, said:

What I find slightly disappointing is that the top three factions appear to have basically been the ones with the most numbers in. Not sure if that is due to people switching factions at the end of the event, to game the rewards system, but it doesn't look as though a huge amount of people did swap.

In which case, it appears that numbers, rather than skills, were the deciding factor in faction placing. Bit sad about that.

Mathematically you should expect the faction with the largest numbers to have the largest number of skilled players. The top 10% of the clan player population overall would be expected to rest mostly in the largest clan. That being said, if you expect a contest of pure skill to determine who is best, then obviously you need to have a very different kind of format. I don't think PGI really intended that to be the case with Tukayyid. What they really wanted out of this was the data, the "science" behind how teams win games at CW in MWO. Now they can study it and see what tactics/mechs work for clans on attack and IS on defense, and what doesn't. Clan Wolf may have gotten a banner out of this, but the real winners should hopefully be the players, as PGI will have a clearer idea of how to balance the game and make it more fun and competitive for everyone.

[ulrin]

Shatara, on 01 May 2015 - 04:46 PM, said:

Points per player (per faction):

Davion: 11,236 / 2019 = 5.565
Kurita: 20,152 / 2092 = 9.633
Liao: 5,420 / 685 = 7.912
Marik: 8,544 / 1221 = 7.000
Rasalhague: 13,288 / 1812 = 7.333
Steiner: 19,315 / 2661 = 7.259
Clan Smoke Jaguar: 12,632 / 1110 = 11.380
Clan Jade Falcon: 19,427 / 1516 = 12.815
Clan Wolf: 34,350 / 2956 = 11.620
Clan Ghost Bear: 19,157 / 1862 = 10.288

Conclusion: davion is worst faction

Bad conclusion, the right one is:
New inexperimented players start by the Davion Faction, in which they acquire their skills

[Shadey99]

Shatara, on 01 May 2015 - 04:46 PM, said:

Points per player (per faction):

Davion: 11,236 / 2019 = 5.565
Kurita: 20,152 / 2092 = 9.633
Liao: 5,420 / 685 = 7.912
Marik: 8,544 / 1221 = 7.000
Rasalhague: 13,288 / 1812 = 7.333
Steiner: 19,315 / 2661 = 7.259
Clan Smoke Jaguar: 12,632 / 1110 = 11.380
Clan Jade Falcon: 19,427 / 1516 = 12.815
Clan Wolf: 34,350 / 2956 = 11.620
Clan Ghost Bear: 19,157 / 1862 = 10.288

Conclusion: davion is worst faction

I think more it shows what a lot of us have said for awhile, which is that Davion has a crazy ton of pug players or players in general who did very little for CW. That said... The reset has seen lots of units leave Davion for other factions with few units leaving other factions for Davion, so those numbers have already changed.

Edited by Shadey99, 02 May 2015 - 03:49 AM.

[ulrin]

Well... I use 1 urbie (cauz <oo-) 2 awesomes and one kintaro as CW dropship...
Im freak !

[quantaca]

Mechwarrior James, on 02 May 2015 - 01:27 AM, said:

Stunning. Total Friendly Fire done: 8,345,945 Total Friendly Fire done by IS Mechs: 4,065,350 Total Friendly Fire done by Clan Mechs:4,280,595

well its not really surprising, seeing the amount of facehugging i've come across, and then theirs also people walking into firing lines and such, but against the total amount of dmg done its actually negligable

[Insects]

Easier to friendly fire fast wide armed Clan mechs than slow high mount Stalkers.
Stalkers dont tend to jump out of nowhere into your firing line and they shoot over the heads of smaller mechs.

[Shadey99]

Hayashi, on 02 May 2015 - 02:34 AM, said:

Given that a Counterattack favours IS (Clan loses ground if they lose, they win nothing if they hold territory) and an Invasion favours Clan (IS loses ground if they lose, they win nothing if they successfully defend), there being 8.56% more Counterattacks than Invasions means the mode favoured IS more - which is probably due to the system allocating Counterattacks and Invasions by the ratio of nodes on the map (supported by how on average the clans held 10% more nodes than IS - reasonably close to the 8.56% mode bias) - the more nodes you possess, the more Counterattacks occur and the fewer Invasions occur. While on paper this is a good thing as it results in closer end-results, in matchmaking this is an unfair thing if one side ONLY attacks and the other ONLY defends, as whichever side is leading will be given an exponentially increasing disadvantage.

Incidentally, as more Clan mechs were destroyed and IS players dealt more damage, the main reason for their greater victory ratio in spite of this was Clans having exclusive access to the Invasion mode. In Counterattack, to win, both sides have to have a kill lead (attackers also need to destroy Omega in addition to this) - but in Invasion, kill leads are irrelevant. Given more clan mechs were destroyed, the Clan victories were not due to base domination, but due to the destruction of the Omega objective.

It might be arguable that in the absence of an Omega kill victory condition the Clans would have had a greater kill ratio than they have at present due to the partially suicidal nature of Omega rushes, but the high deployment of Stormcrows and the kill ratios indicate that Invasion Omega Stormcrow rushes were a decisive factor behind the overall Tukayyid win, in spite of a matchmaker system which favoured the IS - and if the matchmaker was more fair, the overall number of victories by the Clans would have been even greater. The 'final' decision of win-loss, however, was not linked in any way to the overall victory rate, and is dependent entirely on the events of the last few hours of the event.

Counter Attack in stats favors IS. Counter Attack in execution favors the clans. So very many CA matches come down to either sniping matches (where clans still tend to lead) or brawls where the count will tend to stay fairly even until the last seconds. In the 87 games I played only 2 CA favored the IS because the clans failed to be able to repel a spawn camp (which as attrition matters so much is pretty much the must do attrition tactic for CA) and so lost more than 1 wave of mechs compared to IS. In matches where we didn't spawn camp in a CA we never won.

I'd say CA really really needs redone to no longer favor spawn camping as the only effective tactic for the attacking side.

Also the stats need to be broken down by mode. The IS for instance was never able to attack during the event (Only Defend or Counter Attack). While the clans only got to attack or defend against a counter attack. Many IS units are used to exclusively doing attacks and so were at a disadvantage when they had to defend.

Hayashi, on 02 May 2015 - 02:34 AM, said:

The EXTREMELY SMALL number of Clan Lights and Assaults (especially Clan Assaults) deployed should also send certain signals regarding the effectiveness of Clan Assaults and Lights in an environment where only overall tonnage matters.

Some of the hardest fights I had (And I got 83 points during the event) were against Direwolves. 6+ DWFs at the right points on a clan defense and the IS team is just done. Hellbore in particular is nasty about this. A bunch of TDR going up against multiple DWFs will almost always favor the DWFs. The firepower of DWFs makes them a priority target however and smart groups will adjust.

Eventually my unit created a solution however, which was to modify the light rush into a light assault going to cripple or destroy any large mechs when found, as assaults in general tend to have trouble with lights. Even so our best light assault versus a clan pug was 13 clan mechs for 12 IS lights and much more usually we got 6-7 for our 12. No clan team fields 12 DWFs for instance with SCR, TBR, and BHR being much much more common in drop decks and clan mediums and heavies don't really have issues taking on lights.

Current clan lights tend to play like IS mediums with a speed advantage (or more like say the IS Cicada). Which is why most people tend to call them sucky. However I own the Myst Lynx and in the right situations and played to their strengths they can be very effective. I saw several good Adder, Myst Lynx, and Kit Fox pilots during the event. The problem they had was generally a lack of firepower versus their opponents when fielded. Clan lights tend to work best mixed with clan mediums and heavies and not as their own wave.

Hayashi, on 02 May 2015 - 02:34 AM, said:

Remember that a higher number means faster games - which implies the games are less balanced (as balanced matches conclude with timeout or close to it, while 1-way stomps end quickly). These numbers indicate Sulphurous Rift and Hellebore Springs are the two most balanced maps, while Portico, Boreal and Taiga are the most one-sided maps - which should surprise exactly nobody who played in this event. Would be interesting if Tina revealed the Invasion:Defense:Counterattack:Hold territory win/loss ratios on each of these maps, though I'd already predict in advance that Boreal and Portico favour defenders of both types, while Taiga favours attackers of both types.

Taiga actually slightly favors clan defense in counter attack as IS mechs tend to field weapons like the MPLs with a shorter range than clan weapons generally have. With only two ways in IS usually has to close a gap to enter. In reverse if IS is defending the map they have to again close the gap on their attackers who, if they are smart, can rush much quicker through that gap.

Boreal does favor both sides on defense as long as they play smart and don't try to be agressive on defense. The attacking side absolutely must be agressive to win this map.

Grim favors the defenders because the gates share a common ground and 90% of games the enemy will go for the spawn camp through the right hand gate. The fact that the generators and spawns are right next to each other on this map is horrible however and a successful spawn camp is the winning element even on a attack (which during the event only the clans got to do attacks).

[Skarlock]

Hayashi, on 02 May 2015 - 02:34 AM, said:

Let me get you a few extra processed stats, along with comments on what each one <em>means</em>.

Very nice, analasys, however there's a few things I'd like to point out.

1. The dominance of thunderbolts, stalkers, ravens, stormcrows, hellbringers, and timber wolves in CW is because ton for ton, those mechs outperform. If you *nerf these mechs* then all balance has been lost between IS and clan, because now people will take the next most outperforming mechs, and we do not know how that match up plays out. A win/loss ratio for each side that is within about 8.5% of each other is somewhat balanced, and that is with the thunderbolt and stalker being as is. Very careful tuning needs to be done, as pushing the meta to the next most balanced mechs by nerfing the current best mechs could cause a wild swing in power, and any nerfs at all to the side that is currently the slight underdog need to be done with *extreme consideration*. If anything they should just buff some of the IS mechs and leave clans untouched if they are going to make decisions purely based off this data, which as you mentioned before, we already know is somewhat skewed to begin with for many reasons.

2. As for clan friendly fire vs. IS friendly fire, don't forget that most clan drop deck mechs go about 90kph or faster. Naturally the guys who move quicker and have longer duration beams are going to have more FF. Even so, 5% isn't particularly significant IMO.

3. Weight class longevity means little to me, other than maybe the game was over before that particular mech was even used by a pilot. The goal is to win, not to necessarily to survive. If I lose all 4 of my mechs but take 12 of the enemy with me, that will go a lot further to achieve victory than having one of my mechs alive at the end of a game, and lose because time expired. It's not surviving that matters, it's what you accomplished with that mech that matters.

4. The most interesting thing about the "new player experience" is that it is a reverse bell curve. Most people gravitated to the extremes, either getting very few points, or a whole bunch. You would typically expect this to be the exact opposite, with a few players getting very few or very many points, and most people gravitating towards the middle. In my opinion the biggest factor here isn't clan/IS mech balance, or the score requirement , it's the queue time. The first day people on the IS side were posting images showing they had waited A FULL HOUR in the queue as a solo player, only to be constantly kicked back in the queue as premade groups jump ahead of them, and then finally have their lobby destroyed when PGI patched the servers.

Waiting an hour to get into a CW game is obscenely long, and much much greater measures MUST be taken to ensure that both sides get their games as fast as possible. I would also like to note, that time zones matter. During the wee hours of the morning in the east coast US, IS players didn't have to wait too long for a game, but during prime time in the evenings, it is lunacy to expect players to wait through a queue that is 30 to 40 groups long, with only 1 group waiting on the clan side to join a game. PGI needs to take a long hard look at queue times first, and everything else second IMO to fix that issue. It is no surprise to me at all that some players quit the CW event outright after waiting 20 to 30 minutes to get a game, and their first game they have the unfortunate experience of getting roflstomped so badly they don't even make their 80 points because they get spawn camped and outright eliminated after 10 minutes. Granted, fewer players on the IS side helps the remaining IS players a lot, but it doesn't do a lot to win people over and get them interested in CW...

Edited by Skarlock, 02 May 2015 - 03:57 AM.

[Inveramsay]

Hayashi, on 02 May 2015 - 02:34 AM, said:

• Clan Assaults are underpowered.

I don't think that is necessarily the case but rather a reflection on the poor clan lights available and the limited range of assaults that are good. The only assault really worth taking is the direwolf. Warhawks would probably see more use if LRMs were better and the maddog wasn't a competent mech. The gargoyle is a bit of a joke and I've rarely seen one in the field and the numbers back that up.

Once wave 3 hits I expect the clan line up to be more even as the arctic cheetah seems to be the best clan light on paper at least and the ECM shadow cat I would expect will shake things up as well.

[jlawsl]

AlphaStruck, on 01 May 2015 - 04:24 PM, said:

How about some basic info here?

IS K/D W/L
Clan K/D W/L
Weapon usage for both.
Component Destruction (Since IS have to blow off 2x the parts to get a kill)

All this info again ingoring the non 12mans. This way the PUGs dont pollute the data.

Oh, and split the C-bill earnings for IS and Clan.

I hope you are being facetious. Otherwise what kind of elitist snob are you? Its PLAYER event stats, not stats for tryhard neckbeards with no lives. Its how everyone did, not 10% of the population.

[Duke Nedo]

Except for the part with clan Assaults being UP and calling for nerfs, excellent writeup!

[Pepito Sbazzeguti]

Lack of Banshees and Dire Wolves surprise me..

[Bulvar Jorgensson]

I had fun....Was a good way for Faction/Clan players to bond and play MWO.

I have a suggestion which I am posting on a Different thread so it does not get swallowed on this one.




Poke the Bear and it will EAT YOU........nuff said.....

[RustyBolts]

Lawnug, on 01 May 2015 - 07:03 PM, said:

It would be nice to be able to lose the defeat banner. What an insulting piece of drivel.

No you need to keep as it a reminder and motivation for future battles. Think of it like this.... Remember Thermopylae!!! Remember the Alamo!!! Remember Tukayyid!!!

Besides, you dont have to place it in your mech.



My personal opinion on why you do not see many Clan Assaults and Lights is based economy and mode.

Economy: Clan assaults, other than the Dire really suck. With that in mind, You bring a 100tn Whale, you limit your other options for a drop deck. Clan lights are generally too slow and those that are not slow are really under armed. Clansmen usually only bring a light as a filler for that last spot based on the remaining tons left.

Mode: Clans were in assault almost the entire time. So why bring a 48KPH, 100tn Whale, the only assault that is ok. It will slow down the attack. Most Whales in CW are only used in defense, because they do no have to cross the map to get engaged. Since the Clan lights are limited to fast and weak or slow and strong, they once again are used as fillers. I know I do not bring a clan light in my drop deck based on how crappy they are overall. I choose 2 Heavies and 2 Mediums. 1 TBR, 1HBR, 1 SCR and 1 IFR. Once the Wave III comes out, I will change my drop deck.

I think the limitation of the Clans to attack and counterattack and not being able to play Defense greatly impacted the numbers and the Mechs that the Clans use.

[S13gtastic]

I had a lot of fun with this event. I'm kind of sad these stats will be used to continue the crusade on "Nerf clan mechs!". For me all the stats really showed was the current meta, which we all know, and that the Clans had a faster queue time because of low numbers and threw waves and waves of men into the enemy.

Sure theirs a lot of balance issues that should be fixed and hopefully they do. I'm mostly glad to see events happening in MWO and hope players don't get burnt out or bitter.

[Cato Phoenix]

Want0n, on 02 May 2015 - 12:13 AM, said:

What I find slightly disappointing is that the top three factions appear to have basically been the ones with the most numbers in. Not sure if that is due to people switching factions at the end of the event, to game the rewards system, but it doesn't look as though a huge amount of people did swap.

In which case, it appears that numbers, rather than skills, were the deciding factor in faction placing. Bit sad about that.

Well - Jade Falcon had less players than Ghost Bear and Steiner, and managed to edge out both. But in addition to some really good JF units, most JF pugs I've seen are quite gangster in their own right.

[Lawnug]

No, a Beta round scrap-fest to encourage a statistical review requiring limp pandering to change the faction contracts is not a reasonable way to accept game development. I have committed myself to sponsoring 'Beta' forms of this game from the earliest time one could offer to do so and do not feel I should suffer my 'real' game contract to reflect this 'drivel' without explicit control over 'my' items. Your personal opinion has little to do with influencing my mindfulness. The run down of the competition was a debasement of actual CW and to celebrate with a token of defeat is demeaning and unnecessary.