293 replies to this topic

[Burktross]

InRev, on 01 May 2015 - 04:34 PM, said:

More people used Urbanmechs than Vindicators.

More people used Locusts than Awesomes.

BUFF TIME!

urby and lolcust op

[Leidulfr]

Did y'all get any other forms of data to analyze so you can look into improving the game? Did you gather any heat maps? ...might help you realize how bad the map design is...



What will you do with the statistical data you've acquired? 'Cause, it just seems like something you look at, comment on as interesting or not, and then move on with your life.

According to Answers, it takes 262,959,840 bills to go around the Earth at the equator... cool, huh? Soo... you gonna use that information for anything productive?

[rangergord]

I have to wonder how much of the clan assault usage came from the performance of the assaults vs. not wanting to play a light to balance tonnage.

Edited by rangergord, 02 May 2015 - 07:30 AM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Interesting data, gives us some ideas about how the event worked out and that's it folks.

The data is extremely 1 sided because it was Clan on Attack and Inner Sphere on Defense and that was IT.

No Clan on Defense or Inner Sphere on Attack data is here, so we're missing things, lots of things, and oddly enough, so many of the stat masters totally missed that, some caught it and mentioned it, but most totally missed it or ignored it and give long boring dissertations on how balance needs to be dealt with, all of which are totally bs and those people should be ashamed of themselves.

What the data DOES show is that the Clans do well on Attack and defending against Counter Attack, while the Inner Sphere isn't as effective on Defense and Counter Attack. And that data is polluted by the fact that we had IS units and players being switched to Clans and vice versa, albeit in much smaller numbers. We also don't see the 12 man unit vs PUG data, which is going to be rather misleading in the first place. I did a LOT of 12 man drops, not a single one had more than 4 members of a single unit grouped together in that 12, but we were all on TS together and coordinated extremely well, as everyone in the drop was used to working under the direction of a Drop Commander. OUR 12 man drops won't show up in the data as being a 12 man unit despite being one. I know the FRR, who I dropped for during the event, had multiple 12 man drops coordinating on the FRR TS Hub, as did every other House and Clan. None of those will show as 12 man drops, which means that data point is corrupt and therefore useless, probably why PGI didn't list it in the first place, they already know it's useless.

What we DO know from the event is that the points required for the awards were too high, they need to just be lowered to a more attainable level for the AVERAGE player if the actual objective is to get the AVERAGE player involved in CW. We also know that not enough Clan faction players were inclined to do the event as non-Clan faction players which led to PGI offering free no penalty contract breaks so that IS faction players/units could switch to Clan for the duration of the event. Either the Clan faction players just aren't interested in CW, which we do know is true in part, or the disparity between Clan faction players and Inner Sphere faction players is really much higher than anyone realized.

As to the Mechs being used in the event and what that shows us, well, absolutely NOTHING new was learned there. The metaMechs are the metaMechs and they were used exactly as they have been since the current metaMechs were 'found' after the last balancing pass. They will continue to be the metaMechs for CW until such time as a balancing pass or new Mechs being added changes them and we get a new set of metaMechs. Any balancing done based on the CW stats will simply change the current metaMechs to something else, that is ALL that that will accomplish. MetaMechs exist because they are the most efficient toys in the game for winning, balance changes will simply change WHAT Mechs are meta, it will not remove the meta, simply change it. Obviously some of our stat masters have no effing clue how competitive gamers work and think meta can be removed, after 3 years of MWO and it's evolving meta one would think those stat masters would understand this by now, but they fail to see it still and keep offering 'solutions' to fix it. They are the guy who is bailing the ocean out 1 cup at a time who swears he'll eventually empty it...

Personally, I had a lot of fun in the event, met some really good players in the FRR and generally had a blast. I found most of the Clan players to be good players who just wanted to have fun like we did and I saw some extremely well disciplined and trained Clan units that I was honored to have my ass kicked by.

[Strykewolf]

rangergord, on 02 May 2015 - 07:30 AM, said:

I have to wonder how much of the clan assault usage came from the performance of the assaults vs. not wanting to play a light to balance tonnage.

Not sure about anyone else but, I was 2 owned/2 trials when I fought for clans; when I got the warhawk C, I used it from that point on and bought an ecm mist lynx.

[ScrapIron Prime]

I guess I'm going to proudly state that none of the IS mechs I use in my drop deck are in the top 20 list. So either yay, or I suck.

One bit of data I'd caution people to read the right way, though. Clan mechs and IS mechs dished out roughly the same amount of damage. This does NOT Imply that they are balanced in terms of firepower, all it does is confirm that clan mechs and IS mechs take roughly the same amount of punishment before they die. (Which we knew, IS XL engines aside.)

[Asmosis]

Pepito Sbazzeguti, on 02 May 2015 - 04:45 AM, said:

Lack of Banshees and Dire Wolves surprise me..

Not really, DWF would be great to use, except then you need to take 3 ice ferrets or smaller to fit it in. IS can get away with an Atlas and 3 lights pretty easily, Clan not so much.

[Bront]

Frytrixa, on 01 May 2015 - 06:04 PM, said:

how many of IS completed? How many clanners completed?

This I would like to know.

[-Vompo-]

RustyBolts, on 02 May 2015 - 05:41 AM, said:

No you need to keep as it a reminder and motivation for future battles. Think of it like this.... Remember Thermopylae!!! Remember the Alamo!!! Remember Tukayyid!!!

Given that the first two are remembered by the heroic defence against a badly lead attack you really want Tukayyid in the same list as those two battles?

Edited by VompoVompatti, 02 May 2015 - 08:19 AM.

[Zordicron]

Kristov Kerensky, on 02 May 2015 - 07:44 AM, said:

Interesting data, gives us some ideas about how the event worked out and that's it folks.

The data is extremely 1 sided because it was Clan on Attack and Inner Sphere on Defense and that was IT.

No Clan on Defense or Inner Sphere on Attack data is here, so we're missing things, lots of things, and oddly enough, so many of the stat masters totally missed that, some caught it and mentioned it, but most totally missed it or ignored it and give long boring dissertations on how balance needs to be dealt with, all of which are totally bs and those people should be ashamed of themselves.

What the data DOES show is that the Clans do well on Attack and defending against Counter Attack, while the Inner Sphere isn't as effective on Defense and Counter Attack. And that data is polluted by the fact that we had IS units and players being switched to Clans and vice versa, albeit in much smaller numbers. We also don't see the 12 man unit vs PUG data, which is going to be rather misleading in the first place. I did a LOT of 12 man drops, not a single one had more than 4 members of a single unit grouped together in that 12, but we were all on TS together and coordinated extremely well, as everyone in the drop was used to working under the direction of a Drop Commander. OUR 12 man drops won't show up in the data as being a 12 man unit despite being one. I know the FRR, who I dropped for during the event, had multiple 12 man drops coordinating on the FRR TS Hub, as did every other House and Clan. None of those will show as 12 man drops, which means that data point is corrupt and therefore useless, probably why PGI didn't list it in the first place, they already know it's useless.

What we DO know from the event is that the points required for the awards were too high, they need to just be lowered to a more attainable level for the AVERAGE player if the actual objective is to get the AVERAGE player involved in CW. We also know that not enough Clan faction players were inclined to do the event as non-Clan faction players which led to PGI offering free no penalty contract breaks so that IS faction players/units could switch to Clan for the duration of the event. Either the Clan faction players just aren't interested in CW, which we do know is true in part, or the disparity between Clan faction players and Inner Sphere faction players is really much higher than anyone realized.

As to the Mechs being used in the event and what that shows us, well, absolutely NOTHING new was learned there. The metaMechs are the metaMechs and they were used exactly as they have been since the current metaMechs were 'found' after the last balancing pass. They will continue to be the metaMechs for CW until such time as a balancing pass or new Mechs being added changes them and we get a new set of metaMechs. Any balancing done based on the CW stats will simply change the current metaMechs to something else, that is ALL that that will accomplish. MetaMechs exist because they are the most efficient toys in the game for winning, balance changes will simply change WHAT Mechs are meta, it will not remove the meta, simply change it. Obviously some of our stat masters have no effing clue how competitive gamers work and think meta can be removed, after 3 years of MWO and it's evolving meta one would think those stat masters would understand this by now, but they fail to see it still and keep offering 'solutions' to fix it. They are the guy who is bailing the ocean out 1 cup at a time who swears he'll eventually empty it...

Personally, I had a lot of fun in the event, met some really good players in the FRR and generally had a blast. I found most of the Clan players to be good players who just wanted to have fun like we did and I saw some extremely well disciplined and trained Clan units that I was honored to have my ass kicked by.

This Summary= Best Summary PGI PLZ READ

[n4sty]

I'd really like to see the actual numbers of the unit rankings!!! Shouldn't be hard to get those numbers as they are already there but were just not displayed, right (who knows why...)?

[Zordicron]

One other thing:

There are 248 FRR units.
How many units were one player units?

I was. Yes, I have my own unit.

I played 5 matches, total, got 5 points. My 5 matches/match scores outranked roughly 1/3 of the FRR units, and one match had half my deck spawn camped on a counterattack drop and resulted in, surprise, half of my other four scores.

I guess I would like to see some statistical breakdown of units/drops/players/players in unit so I can read into it some and relate it to the leaderboard for my own purposes.

[Threat Doc]

Those who are bitching and complaining about new people going to Davion or Clan Wolf need to get a life; it's untrue, it's laced with extraordinary levels of ignorance new even to these forums, and needs to be put down like a rabid dog. When players come in, they either have a preconception of where they want to go, who they want to serve with, or they are recruited more quickly by the factions in question. Get up your recruitment, your training, and stop putting down other factions. Davion and Clan Wolf are high-level factions with great training and combat regimens, or else their numbers would be lower.

[demoyn]

PFC Carsten, on 02 May 2015 - 01:47 AM, said:

I am not a master of unit tactics, but Isn't the Stalker used for the assault rush to get the O-Gens down (and the opponents legged) and Thunderwubs merely on defense? At least that would explain it

No, but at least it explains why Davion gets the least points per game...

[demoyn]

Skarlock, on 02 May 2015 - 02:38 AM, said:

Mathematically you should expect the faction with the largest numbers to have the largest number of skilled players. The top 10% of the clan player population overall would be expected to rest mostly in the largest clan. That being said, if you expect a contest of pure skill to determine who is best, then obviously you need to have a very different kind of format. I don't think PGI really intended that to be the case with Tukayyid. What they really wanted out of this was the data, the "science" behind how teams win games at CW in MWO. Now they can study it and see what tactics/mechs work for clans on attack and IS on defense, and what doesn't. Clan Wolf may have gotten a banner out of this, but the real winners should hopefully be the players, as PGI will have a clearer idea of how to balance the game and make it more fun and competitive for everyone.

Psychologically speaking this is probably the exact opposite of the truth. As a general rule people who are elite tend to favor the underdogs so that they can have a larger impact on the averages.

ulrin, on 02 May 2015 - 02:56 AM, said:

Bad conclusion, the right one is:
New inexperimented players start by the Davion Faction, in which they acquire their skills

The words "Davion" and "skills" should never be uttered in the same sentence. His conclusion was spot on.

[demoyn]

jlawsl, on 02 May 2015 - 04:13 AM, said:

I hope you are being facetious. Otherwise what kind of elitist snob are you? Its PLAYER event stats, not stats for tryhard neckbeards with no lives. Its how everyone did, not 10% of the population.

Twelve man group stats are important because they make up a much larger percentage of the difference towards the end result than some random puggo who's too busy getting P-whipped by his wife and slapped around by his kids to make any impact what-so-ever on the game.

You kids shouting "tryhard" think you're insulting us. It's pretty sad that you think that way. If you're not trying hard get the hell out. You're ruining 23 other peoples' game with your selfish casualness.

[Remarius]

I see they missed off the figure most people wanted to see: how many IS managed to complete all 50 vs how many clan.

Very disingenuous PGI.

[Codestar]

Shatara, on 01 May 2015 - 04:46 PM, said:

Points per player (per faction):

Davion: 11,236 / 2019 = 5.565
Kurita: 20,152 / 2092 = 9.633
Liao: 5,420 / 685 = 7.912
Marik: 8,544 / 1221 = 7.000
Rasalhague: 13,288 / 1812 = 7.333
Steiner: 19,315 / 2661 = 7.259
Clan Smoke Jaguar: 12,632 / 1110 = 11.380
Clan Jade Falcon: 19,427 / 1516 = 12.815
Clan Wolf: 34,350 / 2956 = 11.620
Clan Ghost Bear: 19,157 / 1862 = 10.288

Conclusion: davion is worst faction

Shatara Posted earlier. Shows clans managed more points on average than IS.

Cheers

Codestar

Edited by Codestar, 02 May 2015 - 10:08 AM.

[Svarn Lornon]

WeekendWarrior, on 01 May 2015 - 11:30 PM, said:

I actually quit with 0 points, and i doubt i was the only one.

I would like to see the points list split into Clans/IS.
And how many of the 40 and 50 pointers were Solos or with a fixed group, but i guess thats a bit much to ask for.

Also looks to me like Clan Lights and Assaults need a buff, i doubt the 10 tons difference in the drop deck is responsible for that huge gap:
IS Assaults: 149310
Clan Assaults: 44751

And nerf the Sniper Raven!
IS Mechs By Chassis
Stalker: 54313
Raven: 53285

The reason for this is, that we need or assaults to more or less being able to counter your heavies. And admittedly your selection also isn't all that great. Given the choice between the Timber, Gargoyle and Warhawk I would also choose the Timber. It has lot's of power and is also lighter.
And how do you want to "nerf" the sniper raven? Remove the ECM? Because that is the ONLY reason why it is used so often. Contrary to the clans we don't have any heavy ECM mechs, so we have to rely on the Atlas (100t) or go with the lights we have.

[Bront]

Alistair Winter, on 01 May 2015 - 05:15 PM, said:

@Tina Benoit: Could we get the numbers for how many 10- and 12-man groups participated on either side? I would guess this has a big impact on what side won.

Can we also see some win/lose statistics for the different maps, please?

Anyway, my thoughts:

• A lot of people complained about 50 points for the biggest prize, but almost 2000 people played to 50 points and almost 3000 played to 40 points. With numbers like these, I can see why PGI keeps raising the bar. Some people really, really play a lot.
  
• I really hope we can nerf the Tier 1 mechs now and stop the power creep.
  
• Mad Dog is surprisingly popular. Partially a product of the 240 drop limit, of course. But still.
  
• Resistance pack mechs aren't very popular, are they?
  
• On average, if a player did 1000 dmg in a match, he also did 22 dmg to friendly targets. That's not that much, really.

This is at least partially due to Clan invading. The attackers generally have a tougher time than the defenders. And of course, it's also a matter of who won most battles, which is at least partially a result of how many active 10 and 12-man teams there were on both sides.

1) Remember, you can drop with an 11 man in CW as well.

2) They had to push this out 3 more days for folks to get that high. The only reason I got it was because I had little else to do for the week. I'd also like a breakdown on Clans vs IS on where they got to.

3) Mad Dog was a trial mech. I can't tell you how many trial Mad Dogs I ran into. It made me giddy when I saw one. Generally an easy kill.

4) Grasshopper placed in the top 20, and I know many folks drop in their Zues. But the resistance mechs + The Urban Mech are still behind the pay wall, and the Raven and Firestarter are more likely to be both owned and taken over the Panther for CW (though i saw a few Panthers as well). I love my Grasshoppers, but I couldn't fit them in my drop deck (I dropped most with my Crab(L), Quickdraw 5K (Thanks GMan), Griffin 2N (not popular due to paywall), and Huggin (Bought durring the sale), but I leveled up my Banshees and Blackjacks in various dropdecks too. Heck, 3 Grasshoppers and a 35 ton mech isn't an uncommon dropdeck, and may be more common once they're available for CBills so you can load up on 1-2 variants.

5) Arty strikes are an easy way to get friendly damage/Team Kills. Otherwise, in the mess of combat, it happens.

Vassago Rain, on 01 May 2015 - 05:26 PM, said:

That's a lot of numbers.

Poor vindicator is the least played robot in all of CW. There were more urbanmechs brought than vindis.

Shows you have bad Vindicators are percieved, if not how bad they actually are.