293 replies to this topic

[WeekendWarrior]

Hayashi, on 02 May 2015 - 01:21 PM, said:

Regardless of whether you want to use it at long range or use it as a midrange brawler, WHK-C outclasses STK-4N in both departments plus survivability when built properly, and it's STILL one of the rarer chassis used in the tournament.

Uhm, paywall?

[Hayashi]

3,703,448 C-Bills isn't that much of a wall when comparing fully-built STK-4N and WHK-C costs. Considering you have to build a whole deck and a 3L costs 5,362,846 more to build than a KFX-C, the STK-RVN pair costs more to field than the WHK-KFX pair.

If we throw in the MDD-HBR pair this works with against the inevitable TDR-TDR pair on the IS side, the difference between their final costs is less than 1M Cbills.

Edited by Hayashi, 03 May 2015 - 01:13 AM.

[DarkExar]

Total players: 17,226

OP thunderbolts or timbies - all interesting, but player count is the stat that caught my eye. Shows where we are really.

Regarding f2p model (i keep in mind $$$ mech packs and stuff) vs server and devs cadre maintenance the game population is so small. Seems all base mostly on die hard BT vets. PGI should seriously wonder what to do to bring more interest to MWO, I'm not that sure if steam release is gonna be that meaningful. The game needs more "cannon fodder" to survive. Maybe we as active player population should also work to advertise it among internet and so - in order to let it live. Just wondering. Well this probably another topic with zillion posts...


I just spend a while in my new premium Jagdtiger from intel voucher in WoT. After half an hour I'm done for another half year. Comparing tanks which are so popular in Europe - game is easy-peezy straight from the beginning but lacks interesting gameplay and background when you spend a while. MWO is quite complicated at start but shows it beauty after some time, especially when you know the background. What to do to break the initial shock that many newcomers feel? Maybe introduce some learning mode for MWO single player with story tale BT background, clans, houses, stuff? Well a lot to think about.

One thing I know - Tukayyid event should have had 50k players involved at least.


EDIT:
Also worth to note are in-game serv stats of Wot - 2 EU servers, 100k+ online each, no idea if these are real but it shows comparison. W/o any event.

Edited by DarkExar, 03 May 2015 - 08:14 AM.

[Strykewolf]

Game needs more tutorials (which are being worked on). Maybe a few short to long single player missions (there are times I want to play mechs but am being anti-social...or, just want to do something a little different. And, an ingame lore section - accessible from the mechlab (various house/clan histories; battles of note, timelines of technology, special interest news reports/interviews on iconic individuals from both sides, mech tech sheets with background/history sections on each mech; that sort of thing).

Yeah, I have to agree; 17k is a bit low; does need to be pushing around 50k for this type of event. Steep learning curve and lack of in-depth lore hurts things a bit. Some of it is being worked on, from what I understand.

[Gyrok]

Deathlike, on 01 May 2015 - 05:33 PM, said:

I thought there was this guy (fortunately not Bishop Steiner) claiming that the Vindicator can compete in CW with those "mega useful PPC quirks". It's I believe it may the same guy claiming that King Crab competes with the Dire Wolf. So... yay balance!

I would swear there are a ton of ignorant unintelligent moronic argumentative IS pilots that are claiming that IS mechs are not roughly on par with clan mechs, and in some cases superior...

So...things are basically balanced, and now they mock those who have long said that...

Hmm..."I told you so..."

[Deathlike]

PFC Carsten, on 02 May 2015 - 01:47 AM, said:

I am not a master of unit tactics, but Isn't the Stalker used for the assault rush to get the O-Gens down (and the opponents legged) and Thunderwubs merely on defense? At least that would explain it

Just... what?

Gyrok, on 03 May 2015 - 09:05 AM, said:

I would swear there are a ton of ignorant unintelligent moronic argumentative IS pilots that are claiming that IS mechs are not roughly on par with clan mechs, and in some cases superior...

So...things are basically balanced, and now they mock those who have long said that...

Hmm..."I told you so..."

They are not in the same boat.

A lot of the CW dropdecks on the IS tend to have flaws in them... not that Clans don't have any (they are more flawed in the Assault and Light categories due to drop tonnage limits and requirements).

For instance, the best Thunderbolt... the primary Thunderbolt build is the "Thunderwub", something that can chew things up at close range well, but isn't exactly faster than a Clan Heavy or doesn't really survive the range game well at all.

While people continue to whine about Dragons (which needs a distraction often so that their right side doesn't get focused on), the primary Clan mechs in use and in force don't suffer that much in the grand scheme of things. These primarily need the nerf, while all the really lackluster mechs (anything not a Timberwolf, Stormcrow, and Hellbringer) tends to need some help in some form (though, excluding Direwolves).

Even though the 6LL Stalker-4N is a decent build, but it can actually get outranged or outbrawled when challenged.

[McHoshi]

Shatara, on 01 May 2015 - 04:46 PM, said:

Points per player (per faction):

Davion: 11,236 / 2019 = 5.565
Kurita: 20,152 / 2092 = 9.633
Liao: 5,420 / 685 = 7.912
Marik: 8,544 / 1221 = 7.000
Rasalhague: 13,288 / 1812 = 7.333
Steiner: 19,315 / 2661 = 7.259
Clan Smoke Jaguar: 12,632 / 1110 = 11.380
Clan Jade Falcon: 19,427 / 1516 = 12.815
Clan Wolf: 34,350 / 2956 = 11.620
Clan Ghost Bear: 19,157 / 1862 = 10.288

Conclusion: davion is worst faction

Sad but true...

[CyclonerM]

DarkExar, on 03 May 2015 - 04:17 AM, said:

Total players: 17,226

OP thunderbolts or timbies - all interesting, but player count is the stat that caught my eye. Shows where we are really.

Regarding f2p model (i keep in mind $$$ mech packs and stuff) vs server and devs cadre maintenance the game population is so small. Seems all base mostly on die hard BT vets. PGI should seriously wonder what to do to bring more interest to MWO, I'm not that sure if steam release is gonna be that meaningful. The game needs more "cannon fodder" to survive. Maybe we as active player population should also work to advertise it among internet and so - in order to let it live. Just wondering. Well this probably another topic with zillion posts...


I just spend a while in my new premium Jagdtiger from intel voucher in WoT. After half an hour I'm done for another half year. Comparing tanks which are so popular in Europe - game is easy-peezy straight from the beginning but lacks interesting gameplay and background when you spend a while. MWO is quite complicated at start but shows it beauty after some time, especially when you know the background. What to do to break the initial shock that many newcomers feel? Maybe introduce some learning mode for MWO single player with story tale BT background, clans, houses, stuff? Well a lot to think about.

One thing I know - Tukayyid event should have had 50k players involved at least.


EDIT:
Also worth to note are in-game serv stats of Wot - 2 EU servers, 100k+ online each, no idea if these are real but it shows comparison. W/o any event.

WoT is a very easy arcade game, and while MWO is far from being a sim, is still more complicated (and interesting) and is still a niche game (not many stompy robots games have been mainstream i think). However, i think what it shows is the opposite:
it shows that PGI should focus their hearts and minds towards what apparently makes a big part of their paying customers, the BT fans, instead of seeking the arrival of an unreliable number of casual gamers with no love or interest for the universe this game is based on.

That said, a new tutorial and a better mechlab (which are both coming) will be relatively simple and good first steps to help with player retention

[kayjay]

Twilight Fenrir, on 02 May 2015 - 11:50 AM, said:

Wow... I didn't realize we had 17K players in our community... and that's just the people who played CW during the event! Actually, a lot of the statistics of this event are kind of mind boggling.

There's no wins/loss statistic yet?

Looks like the number of mechs destroyed between IS and Clans is pretty near dead even, so I imagine the win/loss statistic is pretty close as well. A good showing of balance.

And, the full 50 points is the 2nd most achieved score total, so poo on those people who were arguing that 50 was too much. Statistically, if they didn't give up in the first 5 matches, more people hit at least 40 points than any other point total.

Wait till you usee the IS vs clan breakout, given IS avg wait time (another stat I'd like to see) vs Clan wait time - anecdotally the IS wait tme was 30 min for a 12 man, rarely more than a minute for clan. They tried to fix that but but was too late.

Edited by kayjay, 03 May 2015 - 11:16 AM.

[Alienized]

WoT does not need the amount of tactical teamplay that MWO needs.
you have no RNG here, you have no armor that bounces, you have no satellite artillery, you have no camo, you only have one gun, you can overheat here etc etc etc.

the only thing that MWO and WoT have in common is the F2P model.

MWO doesnt allow to be a camping couch warrior hanging back behind the rest of the team camping like you can do in WoT.

either you go with the team or you die alone. if you manage to walk in with almost full armor while your team is long dead and you manage to somehow kill the rest then it has nothing to do with your own skill. you should be grateful that the 11 other people in your team done a fantastic job making up for one player not knowing how to teamplay.

in WoT, teamplay is not as important as it is here. you can use sidescraping and alot more things that you dont have here.

so NEVER compare these 2 games with each other.

[DarkExar]

Of course you can compare. Both games are a way to spent free time and have fun.

You're referring to general game differences - I am not that specific, just look at general model - two f2p games, basing on community and non force purchases to give income to company that runs the game. This is the basis, you can get any other successful f2p game game instead of WoT.

Both games need to generate income - and that's the main difference. WoT player base is solid enough to let the company develop game anywhere they want without any issue. PGI dependent only on tabletop BT fan base aims into the small niche here. They will never have possibilities that Wargaming has (and income - remember its business enterprise to generate cash!), unless building larger game audience. Hence steam release.

And regarding to what CyclonerM wrote about game style - I'm all about deep in-game tactics, team cooperation and complicated heat killing builds but maybe there should be an arcade mode for casual people in MWO? So that those "more BT die-hards" can actually have CW on the level one would want?

edit: re-edited a bit

Edited by DarkExar, 03 May 2015 - 01:10 PM.

[Alienized]

it will come with the solaris mode.

yes i am that specific because putting a F2P stamp on it does not cut it. WoT is easy to play compared to MWO.
this game requires teamwork to make fun at this point. alot of people dont have fun because so many people lack teamwork.
so they leave. which means PGI generates less money.

so IF people get their minds sorted and try to play more as a team than playing as WoT (because its F2P too, ya know) it would been more fun for alot more people than it currently is.

am i a die hard BT guy? maybe, i loved to read the novels and mechwarrior 4 but never played the TT.
what i really love is playing as a team. i do that even when i drop solo, sometimes sacrificing my mech in a push. helping others out that are in trouble so he can continue to play the battle and have fun.

im not as ignorant to play like im the only one here, there are 11 other people that want to play and have fun so i do my best to make this game enjoyable for my complete team. i know everyone has a different idea of fun BUT that doesnt make a difference. you should help the guys next to you to have fun as well.
i cant see that happening in a lot of battles.

[nehebkau]

So when you give IS turrets and gates on 50% of the matches things work out mostly equal? Interesting.

[Hood]

The part that really enjoyed the most was making a 4 man group, getting in the queue... getting all the way into the top ten of launch list.. and never getting to launch because a 12 man jumped us.. So here is a stat they wont show you..
6 attempts to drop in a 4 man group, 0 ACTUAL DROPS...
yes yes i can already hear .. get in a 12 man. but lets stay on point.

[Rogue Jedi]

so more players gave up after 3 games than got the Mech, that is interesting but from my experience not surprising

number of Clan Mechs destroyed is roughly the same as IS Mechs destroyed, that is good to see

other useful info, 15,671 players played CW last week,

21% of players got the Mech

12% of players found time for 50+ matches, it would have been interesting to see the proportion of Clan to IS players who got the max points considering the reported disparity of wait times.

[Ace Selin]

Rogue Jedi, on 03 May 2015 - 03:32 PM, said:

number of Clan Mechs destroyed is roughly the same as IS Mechs destroyed, that is good to see

This is a false stat. IS were defending so should have found kills easier for 2 reasons, they had the help of turrets and there were Clan rushes on Omega where Clans died 12-0. That means during the actual fights, the Clans won more often than not.

[Rushin Roulette]

Lily from animove, on 01 May 2015 - 11:39 PM, said:

wow, the emch chassis statistics are truly interesting,

dat thudnerbolting, strormcrowing, timebrowlfing and hellbringering.

something is trully too meta with these when they make like 2x or more being choosen over the other chassis.
Esepcially in IS side, since they have more mechs for various tonnages yet TDR is too favoured.

Actually, that is becasue the IS mechs force you to specialize. Such as take the absolutely best single mech chassie and variant to play. Clan mechs are not designed that way. You can take any one of the 3 Stormcrows and build them all 4 to be exactly the same by exchanging the omnipods to fit the required setup.

If you want a Med Pulse Boat, then you need to take the TDR-5SS on the IS side. If you want to take a Med Pulse Stormcorw, it doesnt matter whcih one you choose, you can build every one to have the same Hardpoints just by changing opmipods. Even the quirks are the same as they are fixed to the Omnipod, not the center torso.

[Hayashi]

Ace Selin, on 03 May 2015 - 11:02 PM, said:

This is a false stat. IS were defending so should have found kills easier for 2 reasons, they had the help of turrets and there were Clan rushes on Omega where Clans died 12-0. That means during the actual fights, the Clans won more often than not.

Actually this is probably the source of the stat irregularity I was wondering about. My best guess is that PGI counted 'number of mechs destroyed' by the number of player kills, while the number of destroyed per class is by the actual number of mechs destroyed.

Hayashi, on 02 May 2015 - 02:34 AM, said:

With a total of 13942 matches the total number of destroyed mechs is 961974, which indicates an average of 69 mechs destroyed in total per match between both sides. Given a total of 96 mechs are brought in, 72% of mechs used in a match are destroyed.

Weight class longevity:

IS Light: 102854/134890 = 76.3%
IS Medium: 112512/144825 = 77.7%
IS Heavy: 182823/240195 = 76.1%
IS Assault: 112456/149310 = 75.3%
Clan Light: 89270/114478 = 78.0%
Clan Medium: 156883/205358 = 76.4%
Clan Heavy: 239852/304425 = 78.8%
Clan Assault: 36113/44751 = 80.7%

Interestingly there is a stat irregularity here as all of the mech classes are destroyed at a rate greater than 72%, but the overall number of mechs destroyed by match is 72%.

So we have a new processed statistic here I missed on my first pass. The number of clan mechs destroyed by players is 481,187, but the total number destroyed is 522,118 - so 92.16% are destroyed by players and 7.84% are destroyed by turrets and dropships combined. The number of IS mechs destroyed by players is 480,787, but the total number destroyed is 510645 - so 94.15% are destroyed by players and 5.85% are destroyed by dropships alone (clans had zero access to turrets).

Attackers always have access to dropships with large lasers while defenders always have access to dropships with medium lasers, so regardless of which side you're on the dropship kill rate can be assumed to be approximately the same. That means turrets had an overall effect of destroying 1.99% of all players - and since Counterattack has no turrets, correcting for the overall occurrence rate of Invasion maps, the estimated potential of turrets is to kill 4.15% of targets in an Invasion map, or 2 mechs per match. It probably shouldn't surprise anyone that turrets are less effective than dropships.

Edited by Hayashi, 04 May 2015 - 01:11 AM.

[Uncle Totty]

Ace Selin, on 03 May 2015 - 11:02 PM, said:

This is a false stat. IS were defending so should have found kills easier for 2 reasons, they had the help of turrets and there were Clan rushes on Omega where Clans died 12-0. That means during the actual fights, the Clans won more often than not.

There were also counter-attacks, when WE defended and YOU attacked.

[VorpalAnvil]

I'm gonna take issue with Hayashi on one point: damage. IS averaged 1 point of damage more despite having a much larger population pool which almost certainly consists or more average and below average players. This tells me that IS dps is higher by a good amount when jonny pug in a random IS meta mech can pull similar damage to an elited clan mech. I also don't think that this stat is inflated by clan gen rushes as I believe that they were rarer than is being reported in this thread. I managed around 60 games for the event and only considered gen rushing on the last day, and even then only participated in a single one. Most people played the entire event to get those 50 x 80 point match scores. FF is most certainly a cause of clans weapons being low slung on the TBR and Crow along with much longer burn times. Considering it isn't quite a bit higher says something about average clanner skill I think.