293 replies to this topic

[Ace Selin]

Nathan K, on 04 May 2015 - 02:04 AM, said:

There were also counter-attacks, when WE defended and YOU attacked.

That doesnt change much really. Counterattack has no turrets and no one rushes to kill omega when it doesn't mean anything. People don't sacrifice mechs to get omega in counterattack. People get kills then later worry about omega when already up.

[Rushin Roulette]

Nathan K, on 04 May 2015 - 02:04 AM, said:

There were also counter-attacks, when WE defended and YOU attacked.

The difference between attacking and counterattacking however is that Attacking you can win by zerg rushing the Ogens and Omega winning without actually needing a single kill and in a very short time. While counterattacking you need to kill every enemy mech and Omega to finish before the timer runs out. If not, then you need to take down Omega and have more kills after the full 30 Mins to score a win. The difference is just in the time required per match for a win. Clans had much shorter queue times plus the faster game winning conditions.

[AlmightyAeng]

I'd love to see a breakdown of how far players went (the last stats listed) by IS and Clan. I want to see how many Clanners went the distance vs. IS people who looked at the queue times and said F that.

[demoyn]

VorpalAnvil, on 04 May 2015 - 02:51 AM, said:

I'm gonna take issue with Hayashi on one point: damage. IS averaged 1 point of damage more despite having a much larger population pool which almost certainly consists or more average and below average players. This tells me that IS dps is higher by a good amount when jonny pug in a random IS meta mech can pull similar damage to an elited clan mech.

I like how you're leaving out the fact that a HUGE percentage of clan players were in trial mechs.

[Bilbo]

Triordinant, on 01 May 2015 - 05:07 PM, said:

One third of the participants quit after getting 5 points or less. They must've been really frustrated.

Quit after 7pts and the second time I was in the queue for nearly 1/2 an hour and got shuffled to the back of the line again.

[Torchedini]

Quickdraw Crobat, on 01 May 2015 - 11:09 PM, said:

I would like to point out that this is EXTREMELY telling about the degree of value imbalance in Clan 'mech chassis, specifically regarding the Stormcrow and Timber Wolf. When they're being brought in this proportion to a competitive field even by people not in highly competitive teams, it really says something about how the chassis as a whole compare to the other options.

I'll probably post a topic concerning them later, maybe when I have time this coming week, but I think that's something that should really be looked at and considered (especially the reasons for the chassis selection, which can be partly discerned by the choices of omni-pod used) and potentially taken into account for a subsequent quirk/chassis-performance pass on clan 'mechs.

It is not only balance though.

With TBR, HBR en SCR speeds all in the 80-100 kph bracket bringing the DWF sets you at a serious disadvantage because of the slow speed.
Secondly the WHK is in a bit of an akward place with again slower and weird hitboxes.
The GAR is a combination of not being very good and being a wave 2 mech. I bet most people that played GAR were either pack buyers or trails.

Add to that a 240T limitation you already favor heavy and medium over an Assault

[Capp]

Torchedini, on 04 May 2015 - 07:40 AM, said:

It is not only balance though.

With TBR, HBR en SCR speeds all in the 80-100 kph bracket bringing the DWF sets you at a serious disadvantage because of the slow speed.
Secondly the WHK is in a bit of an akward place with again slower and weird hitboxes.
The GAR is a combination of not being very good and being a wave 2 mech. I bet most people that played GAR were either pack buyers or trails.

Add to that a 240T limitation you already favor heavy and medium over an Assault

And add to that the fact we have such a smaller selection of chassis to choose from to begin with. Of course there's going to be more people using the same chassis.

As for the Stormcrow specifically.... one was given as a prize in a previous tournament, so people are more likely to have one. (And everyone wanted their friggin' Madcat before the game even began, so I'd wager a Timber Wolf was one of the first Clan C-bill purchases of a number of players.)

There are many factors at play. Statistics are fun but they don't explain the why's.

[Av4tar]

How about Top 10 mechs sale?

[VorpalAnvil]

demoyn, on 04 May 2015 - 06:16 AM, said:

I like how you're leaving out the fact that a HUGE percentage of clan players were in trial mechs.

Yeah, the pugs I dropped with during the event were mostly terribad. Anytime I had a lance of wolves or bears my group communally sighed. At least the Falcons had their act together. Having an entire lance on your team do sub 300 damage really makes it hard to win. Trial ice ferret OP...

[Freebrewer Bmore]

Hood, on 03 May 2015 - 03:10 PM, said:

The part that really enjoyed the most was making a 4 man group, getting in the queue... getting all the way into the top ten of launch list.. and never getting to launch because a 12 man jumped us.. So here is a stat they wont show you..
6 attempts to drop in a 4 man group, 0 ACTUAL DROPS...
yes yes i can already hear .. get in a 12 man. but lets stay on point.

The far bigger problem than 12-mans getting priority is the way non-12 people kept getting bumped back to the very beginning of the queue whenever one of the pugs in their "transferring pilots" bundle canceled. Especially at the beginning of the event, I was in a few groups of 4-6 that would wait 10+min in the IS defender queue while our group chevron slowly advanced from being #30 or more to single digits... and then some random pug who'd been alloted to fill out our group would drop. His spot would be immediately filled by another waiting pug of course, but in the process our entire group would get bumped back to #30-something and we waited another 10+min hoping our new pugs wouldn't cancel... then they did, and it was back to the end of the line again. Several members of my unit just abandoned playing CW entirely for the event directly due to this kind of episode.

Why on earth does the queue work that way? It's incredibly frustrating. Why should my place in line be set back when the system fills my group slots with a pugs who lose patience and cancel? Why not just fill the now-empty slot in my group with the next-timestamped pug in line from the group after mine, instead of resetting my entire group?

[Hades Trooper]

How about a bracket for people like me who got 72 pts? from 76 games

Freebrewer Bmore, on 04 May 2015 - 07:37 PM, said:

The far bigger problem than 12-mans getting priority is the way non-12 people kept getting bumped back to the very beginning of the queue whenever one of the pugs in their "transferring pilots" bundle canceled. Especially at the beginning of the event, I was in a few groups of 4-6 that would wait 10+min in the IS defender queue while our group chevron slowly advanced from being #30 or more to single digits... and then some random pug who'd been alloted to fill out our group would drop. His spot would be immediately filled by another waiting pug of course, but in the process our entire group would get bumped back to #30-something and we waited another 10+min hoping our new pugs wouldn't cancel... then they did, and it was back to the end of the line again. Several members of my unit just abandoned playing CW entirely for the event directly due to this kind of episode.

Why on earth does the queue work that way? It's incredibly frustrating. Why should my place in line be set back when the system fills my group slots with a pugs who lose patience and cancel? Why not just fill the now-empty slot in my group with the next-timestamped pug in line from the group after mine, instead of resetting my entire group?

So obviously you where playing IS for the event then as that wasn't the case for clans.

Nice to see you also join Clan sheep in wolves clothing.

nothing like being a member of the herd when it's winning team huh?

[Uncle Totty]

Rushin Roulette, on 04 May 2015 - 04:25 AM, said:

The difference between attacking and counterattacking however is that Attacking you can win by zerg rushing the Ogens and Omega winning without actually needing a single kill and in a very short time. While counterattacking you need to kill every enemy mech and Omega to finish before the timer runs out. If not, then you need to take down Omega and have more kills after the full 30 Mins to score a win. The difference is just in the time required per match for a win. Clans had much shorter queue times plus the faster game winning conditions.

Clans can not zerg rush. We just do not have the mechs for that.

Hades Trooper, on 04 May 2015 - 09:01 PM, said:

How about a bracket for people like me who got 72 pts? from 76 games



So obviously you where playing IS for the event then as that wasn't the case for clans.

Nice to see you also join Clan sheep in wolves clothing.

nothing like being a member of the herd when it's winning team huh?

I hate being the bandwagon Clan.

Edited by Nathan K, 05 May 2015 - 02:18 AM.

[Svarn Lornon]

Nathan K, on 05 May 2015 - 02:17 AM, said:

Clans can not zerg rush. We just do not have the mechs for that.

Of course you can. You just rush with Timbers, Stormcrows and Hellbringers.

[Hayashi]

Stats are used to detect/support various trends in an objective way.

This is not the kind of thread to throw unsupported theories that make your faction look better/less bad. Hell, it doesn't matter if your faction consists of elite players if you're not, and it doesn't matter if your faction can't shoot to save their lives if you (and/or your 12 man group) can. We call that the ecological fallacy.

Plenty of room on the forums for that. Not using data that took that much effort to gather here is like going to a hotel buffet to eat free-flow plain bread.

Edited by Hayashi, 05 May 2015 - 03:55 AM.

[WeekendWarrior]

Alienized, on 03 May 2015 - 11:29 AM, said:

WoT does not need the amount of tactical teamplay that MWO needs.

Just because the typical "Siema" PUG doesn't have any tactical teamplay whatsoever that doesn't mean the game doesn't have/need it.
What an organized team can do to a PUG in WoT makes your typical MWO premade stomp look like a slow joke.

Anyway, i'll repeat my call for a split Clan/IS points list, and i'm kinda curious what (if...) they think they've learned from this event...

[Alienized]

WeekendWarrior, on 05 May 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

Just because the typical "Siema" PUG doesn't have any tactical teamplay whatsoever that doesn't mean the game doesn't have/need it.
What an organized team can do to a PUG in WoT makes your typical MWO premade stomp look like a slow joke.

Anyway, i'll repeat my call for a split Clan/IS points list, and i'm kinda curious what (if...) they think they've learned from this event...

i played CW on the world map in WoT as well.
tactical teamplay? lol. if you mean hiring some units to camp bases so no one gets to the final stage but them to take a free win then i'll shake my head.
the team modes are all around the same tanks. you have literally less diversity in tanks than in MWO. + gold shell spammage and warpack abusing.
no, WoT is not a tactical game compared to MWO. its camp or rush. if a light tank flanks you your IS-7 or e-100 doesnt give anything about it.

if a light flanks in MWO it can be your death whatever it is seeing. UAV, arty strikes and all that stuff is making it much more tactical along with JJ and the overall faster speed of mechs.

[Bront]

kayjay, on 03 May 2015 - 11:16 AM, said:

Wait till you usee the IS vs clan breakout, given IS avg wait time (another stat I'd like to see) vs Clan wait time - anecdotally the IS wait tme was 30 min for a 12 man, rarely more than a minute for clan. They tried to fix that but but was too late.

My longest 12 man wait time was 15 minutes by the clock timer, and I doubt folks were getting 30 minute wait times in 12 mans.

[WeekendWarrior]

Alienized, on 05 May 2015 - 08:08 AM, said:

if a light tank flanks you your IS-7 or e-100 doesnt give anything about it.
if a light flanks in MWO it can be your death whatever it is seeing.

We apparently have a different definition of the term "tactical teamplay".

A light tank that can be one-shot by everything else on the field spotting the opposing Heavies so the TDs/Arty on his side can tear them apart = tactical teamplay.
A nigh immortal Firestarter zipping across the battlefield to tear apart a hapless Atlas from behind before he ever enters your teammates weapons range = neither tactical, nor teamplay.
Now if that Atlas has a Medium backscratcher along for the ride while he concentrates on lighting up whats in front of him, or that Firestarter actually bothers to use his R key, then we're back in teamplay territory.

Besides, whats cheaper, a TD hiding in a bush, or an ER-LL Raven carrying his "bush" around with him?

[Alienized]

WeekendWarrior, on 05 May 2015 - 12:00 PM, said:

We apparently have a different definition of the term "tactical teamplay".

A light tank that can be one-shot by everything else on the field spotting the opposing Heavies so the TDs/Arty on his side can tear them apart = tactical teamplay.
A nigh immortal Firestarter zipping across the battlefield to tear apart a hapless Atlas from behind before he ever enters your teammates weapons range = neither tactical, nor teamplay.
Now if that Atlas has a Medium backscratcher along for the ride while he concentrates on lighting up whats in front of him, or that Firestarter actually bothers to use his R key, then we're back in teamplay territory.

Besides, whats cheaper, a TD hiding in a bush, or an ER-LL Raven carrying his "bush" around with him?

a firestarter aint immune to well aimed PPC gauss shots. he is immune to laser only.
er LL ravens can be countered easily too such as any mech. at least he is moving and spotting. a TD aint apart from the fact that TD's got immense firepower. ravens dont. they also dont have armor as many td's and ravens still dont bounce shots.


why are you even comign up with the most broken mech currently?!? thats almost a disqualification as everyone knows it needs a fix.
im really wondering why you still compare lights here with lights in WoT. mechs have legs not tracks. tanks dont have XL engines or legs, tanks have tracks you can shoot easily ( if RNG works properly.)
there are so many differences that i simply wont compare them as everything is completely different.

also, WoT doesnt need a R key. one more for the tactical gameplay.

[Uncle Totty]

Svarn Lornon, on 05 May 2015 - 02:57 AM, said:

Of course you can. You just rush with Timbers, Stormcrows and Hellbringers.

If you lose to people zerg rushing in THOSE mechs, then you just fail as a team. They are bigger than IS lights. They are slower then IS lights. But like the IS lighs, they are NOT SHOOTING YOU. Call target, shoot target, kill target, move to the next.