8 replies to this topic

[Xoco]

Humanoid mech seems to have it tougher with their arm weapon placement compared to gun arm. Currently, having an arm actuator help these mechs to be able to cover the x-axis much better and has better rotation speed. I think it would be very cool if they can lift up their arm to fire.
- On key press, mechs with arm actuator can straighten their arm to fire weapons from shoulder level.
While in this mode, movement causes weapon sway (similar to using rifles in most fps).

[Valar13]

CoD player, eh? What next, quick scopes and bunny hopping?

[Xoco]

I use the word "aim down sight" because I figured it would get the point across. Mainly I'm just annoyed that your arm has to hang down all the time, which does make humanoid robot harder to use sometime. I kinda figured it would look more natural.

[Xoco]

Dang, can't find edit button. Anyway, the goal is to create difference between different body types. I reallyvwish leg type would affect ability to climb, and humanoid leg would allow you to crouch as well, but that seems like it would be harder to code in.

[Serpentbane]

- Why should only humanoid mechs lift their arms?
- This would have a huge impact on the mechs ability to use cover as most weapons would be at cockpit level, and thus unbalance chassis types.
- It would look dumb. Did you ever play with transformers with stiff arms when you were a kid? Imagine a robot walking with both arms stright out in front of him like a steel zombie.
- Did you ever see humand shoot this way, in real life?

Nah, I dont like this.

Now, bending the knees to do something looking like a crouch could be implemented for all chassis types. How much would differ from mech to mech based on how the joints are built. But It would be stationary in this mode.

Edited by Serpentbane, 04 May 2015 - 10:48 AM.

[Xoco]

Most people do hold guns up to their eye level to aim and fire. Firing from the hip is actually very rare in real life, unless you are simply firing to scare off people while you are on the move.


I'm not saying that it is necessarily a good idea. I just thought it's something to set different chassis type apart.

My suggestion is that by default, the humanoid mechs are just like they currently are. In this default mode, they can move their arms just like now.

Upon pressing a key to enter "aim mode", a humanoid mech straighten its arms. This allow them to shoot from higher point (hooray for a poking). However, the tradeoff is their arms are now locked in the position in front of them (basically turn their arm-mount weapons to torso weapon), and it shakes while they are walking (since you're holding heavy things further away from your body).

This allows for humanoid-type Mechs to adapt to situations (circle strafing and poking). However, specialized mechs with no arm (Jaegermech, etc) gets the advantage in having better hard point overall, and can move while firing without losing accuracy.

[Spleenslitta]

I think it sounds logical to be able to raise the arms to aim from a higher point, but i like look at things from many different angles.
So i'll analyse this idea from a neutral standpoint without thinking about whether it looks dumb like Serpentbane said.

Arm sway analysis.

Spoiler

I will call the mechs with higharms Stubarms (Jager, Stalker) and the ones with elbows Lowslungs (Atlas, Vindicator) for easier referance.

The arm sway idea from raising the arms while walking is a good idea, but what if the mech only torso twists?
Less sway or no sway? i think less sway but not totally gone since it's a lot of weight being swung around.

Stubarmed mechs can move without their arms swaying, but they would no longer hold a clear advantage when looking over cover.

Lowslung mechs that have arms that can move sideways generaly holds the advantage in brawling and faster aiming with it's arm weapons.
If they gain the ability to shoot over cover with them from just below their headheight the stubarmed mechs have nothing to gain in brawling in exchange.

Maybe Stubarmed mechs could get an internal arm structure boost since they don't have elbow joints?
Joints are the most vurnerable points on a mech if you look at it with logic.

That's as much as i can say about the arm part of this thread for now.

Leg difference analysis.

Spoiler

What could the differences be between a chicken leg mech and a man leg mech?
Birds can squat lower than a human so the chicken leg mechs should hold the advantage if any.
But i think they should do equally well.
Mechs don't lay eggs so they aren't birds....but where did the Urbie come from? Who knows?

Instead how about these differences between the leg types? Keep in mind they are only examples.

Man legs tend to be thicker so they could get an internal structure boost.
Chicken legs looks like they can absorb a fall better so they get less damage from falling and a climbing angle boost to make things equal.

Then i'll list a bunch of advantages that either leg type could have.
One leg type gets Acceleration boost and the other Deceleration boost.

Giving one of these leg types better speed by even as little as 2-3% might not be a good idea when it comes to balance.
But if that was balanced with a turning rate boost on the other legtype that might even out.

That's all i can think of right now for the legs.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 05 May 2015 - 11:00 AM.

[Draykin]

Battlemechs kinda did this in canon. In comparison to a metal zombie, it's a lot less like that and more like the Super Battle Droids from Star Wars. Battlemechs are supposed to have full movement as if they had a human's muscle system. So, say, an Atlas, as an example, should be able to move its arm in the same way that you could. While nigh impossible to code all movement options for the arms, a simple "raise weapon" shouldn't be too hard. I imagine the most difficult part would just be moving the hitboxes on the arms correctly.

[Serpentbane]

Xoco, on 05 May 2015 - 08:38 AM, said:

Most people do hold guns up to their eye level to aim and fire. Firing from the hip is actually very rare in real life, unless you are simply firing to scare off people while you are on the move.


I'm not saying that it is necessarily a good idea. I just thought it's something to set different chassis type apart.

My suggestion is that by default, the humanoid mechs are just like they currently are. In this default mode, they can move their arms just like now.

Upon pressing a key to enter "aim mode", a humanoid mech straighten its arms. This allow them to shoot from higher point (hooray for a poking). However, the tradeoff is their arms are now locked in the position in front of them (basically turn their arm-mount weapons to torso weapon), and it shakes while they are walking (since you're holding heavy things further away from your body).

This allows for humanoid-type Mechs to adapt to situations (circle strafing and poking). However, specialized mechs with no arm (Jaegermech, etc) gets the advantage in having better hard point overall, and can move while firing without losing accuracy.

Yeah, this looks cool when this guys doing it. I agree you can draw robots/mechs do more organic movement and postures too. However, we’ll have a huge problem implementing this into games like MWO.

If you look at this guy I can point out several reasons this would not work for mechs in MWO.
1. The guy only has one weapon held by both hands, mechs can have several weapons in both arms.
2. The mech would not hold a weapon like that, they are bolted on.
3. Holding arms in front like that would prevent torso mounted weapons from fireing.
4. Guys torso is slightly twisted to the right, again a problem for both animation as well as torso mounted weapons.
So, I think we can all agree this would not be a stance PGI could implement into MWO. It could be done in game like Heavy Gears, but that’s a different story.

So, Mechs in MWO and raising their arms. For this to work, both from a programing/animation point of view and not to forget the weapon layout, the arms would have to be raised straight up in front of the mech. Now, to visualize how this would look, I used one of my Transformers toys (Yeah, its old school and almost 30 years old).


Say what you want, but no matter how cool this Transformers toy is, this would look dumb in the game if an Atlas came walking with its arms like that.