18 replies to this topic

[Darian DelFord]

Never really paid attention to this but I have the Oxide in my normal Jenner Rotation with 4x SRm 4 load out. Now when an opponent is opened up and I run a full alpha lets say 12 of the 16 hit the opened torso does that give me a crit Chance x 12 (Individual Missiles , or a crit Chance x1 (Individual Weapon System) or a Crit Chance x 3 (Launchers.)

And what exactly does critting do?

Just curious a part of the game I never really paid attention to.

[Vassago Rain]

It's a complicated legacy system that never got any real fleshing out.

Every hit against unarmored components, so in SRMs case, every missile fired in the volley that actually hits the target, has a 25% chance of doing 1 crit, a 14% chance to do 2 crits, 3% chance to do 3 crits, and a 58% chance of no crits.

A 'crit' is your full damage applied directly to a random item's - housed in the component - health. For instance, if you score a single crit hit on a double heatsink with one SRM, that's 2 damage subtracted from the total 10 item health (95% of all items in the game have 10 HP), which means nothing.

Crits only actually matter if you're gonna be using a weapon that does 10 or more impact damage, because it'll instantly remove almost every item in the game.

This is because when you roll for crits, you'll have to roll not only to get the crit, but also what item the crit applies to, so lots of small, pathetic hits aren't anywhere near as effective as a single, beefy hit. You'll simply be spreading damage across, say, 3 dubs, a ton of ammo, an AMS, and whatever else is in there, while with an AC10 or PPC, you'd remove whatever you hit.

15% percentage of damage inflicted as crits will also transfer to internal structure, which translates into free bonus damage. A non critting AC10 deals 10 damage. A 1x crit AC10 does 11.5 damage to internals, and 10 HP damage to a single item in whatever component you hit. A 2x crit AC10 will inflict 2 chunks of 10 damage to items, destroying two, and making the total internal damage inflicted 13.

LBX and flamers have adjusted crit values to 39% of 1 crit, 22% of 2 crits, 7% of 3 crits.
Machineguns have 31% of 1 crit, 17% of 2 crits, and 4% of 3 crits.

But all of them do too low damage to 'crit' out items. Stacked machineguns are super destructive when armor's stripped, though, because that 15% bonus damage quickly adds up.

I don't think they've changed the system, so all of the above should be correct in 2015.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 03 May 2015 - 04:28 AM.

[Darian DelFord]

Vassago Rain, on 03 May 2015 - 04:18 AM, said:

It's a complicated legacy system that never got any real fleshing out.

Every hit against unarmored components, so in SRMs case, every missile fired in the volley that actually hits the target, has a 25% chance of doing 1 crit, a 14% chance to do 2 crits, 3% chance to do 3 crits, and a 58% chance of no crits.

A 'crit' is your full damage applied directly to a random item's - housed in the component - health. For instance, if you score a single crit hit on a double heatsink with one SRM, that's 2 damage subtracted from the total 10 item health (95% of all items in the game have 10 HP), which means nothing.

Crits only actually matter if you're gonna be using a weapon that does 10 or more impact damage, because it'll instantly remove almost every item in the game.

This is because when you roll for crits, you'll have to roll not only to get the crit, but also what item the crit applies to, so lots of small, pathetic hits aren't anywhere near as effective as a single, beefy hit. You'll simply be spreading damage across, say, 3 dubs, a ton of ammo, an AMS, and whatever else is in there, while with an AC10 or PPC, you'd remove whatever you hit.

15% percentage of damage inflicted as crits will also transfer to internal structure, which translates into free bonus damage. A non critting AC10 deals 10 damage. A 1x crit AC10 does 11.5 damage to internals, and 10 HP damage to a single item in whatever component you hit. A 2x crit AC10 will inflict 2 chunks of 10 damage to items, destroying two, and making the total internal damage inflicted 13.

LBX and flamers have adjusted crit values to 39% of 1 crit, 22% of 2 crits, 7% of 3 crits.
Machineguns have 31% of 1 crit, 17% of 2 crits, and 4% of 3 crits.

But all of them do too low damage to 'crit' out items. Stacked machineguns are super destructive when armor's stripped, though, because that 15% bonus damage quickly adds up.

I don't think they've changed the system, so all of the above should be correct in 2015.

Thanks for the reply Vassago, that goes a bit for understanding.

[TyphonCh]

Wow. That was the best... and easiest explanation I've ever seen for the crit system.
Following this thread for future reference for that comment alone... Thanks Vassago

[Mcgral18]

Vassago Rain, on 03 May 2015 - 04:18 AM, said:

I don't think they've changed the system, so all of the above should be correct in 2015.

Looks right to me.


There's also the 15% of crit damage that gets transferred back into the IS; I.E. an AC20 will deal 3 extra damage for each crit (20*0.15=3).
This means a pair of Gauss Rifles can actually one shot a cockpit, if the Rifle that breaches (a FLD weapon will always deal full Crit damage when it pieces armour) deals 2 crits it will cause 34.5 damage (>33). 17% chance for that to happen. Works in the Testing Grouds (it took 17 robots for it to happen).


I guess another titbit is the Targeting Computers adding to the 1x crit percentage.



The crit system doesn't explain itself very well.

Edited by Mcgral18, 03 May 2015 - 09:29 AM.

[stjobe]

Read this guide: Crits and You.

It's old, but it's still relevant (and mostly accurate - I think some weapon values might have been slightly changed, but nothing major AFAICT).

Vass did a great job of the Cliff Notes though, and managed to capture all the important parts.

[Mcgral18]

"Critting Weapons" also get a damage multiplier for their crit rolls.

LBx pellets are at 2x, MGs are at 9x, while Flamers are at 1.1 (LOL).

Still makes them worse than any 10+ (or 5) damage weapon for instant critting, but it does deal that 15% of the crit damage to the IS, so against open internals, MGs get 35% more damage against IS than against armour (for 1x crit, with that 52% chance).


SRMs don't benefit much from crits.

Edited by Mcgral18, 03 May 2015 - 09:57 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Team Chevy86, on 03 May 2015 - 08:19 AM, said:

Wow. That was the best... and easiest explanation I've ever seen for the crit system.
Following this thread for future reference for that comment alone... Thanks Vassago

Glad to be of help, guys.

[Ursh]

The so called "crit-seeking" weapons like lbx and machine guns are best at destroying the entire component quickly, but aren't good at destroying the equipment.

[WILL WORK FOR AMMO]

Vassago Rain, on 03 May 2015 - 04:18 AM, said:

Every hit against unarmored components, so in SRMs case, every missile fired in the volley that actually hits the target, has a 25% chance of doing 1 crit, a 14% chance to do 2 crits, 3% chance to do 3 crits, and a 58% chance of no crits.

Just to show the OP what this comes down to in the hypothetical situation, below is a table based on the assumption that 12 SRMs have hit the open section and the above numbers hold.

(How to read: in the row, the value in the second column is the probability that at least <number in the first column> crits happened. For instance, the row displaying 10 0.23113 means that there is a 23.113% chance of at least 10 crits in the flurry of 12 SRMs hitting the open section).

00 1.00000
01 0.99855
02 0.99105
03 0.96909
04 0.92275
05 0.84526
06 0.73711
07 0.60719
08 0.47002
09 0.34083
10 0.23113
11 0.14648
12 0.08673
13 0.04798
14 0.02480
15 0.01198
16 0.00540
17 0.00228
18 0.00089
19 0.00033
20 0.00011
21 0.00004
22 0.00001
23 0.00000
24 0.00000
25 0.00000
26 0.00000
27 0.00000
28 0.00000
29 0.00000
30 0.00000
31 0.00000
32 0.00000
33 0.00000
34 0.00000
35 0.00000
36 0.00000

Note 1: These values are still subject to machine error but are sensible outside of the truncation.
Note 2: These values are only showing 5 places to the right of the decimal point and are not rounded.
Subnote 2-1: For this reason, the probability of getting at least 23 crits all the way through to 36 crits is not zero. It is just unlikely to happen.

Edited by WILL WORK FOR AMMO, 03 May 2015 - 07:20 PM.

[Kiiyor]

Vassago Rain, on 03 May 2015 - 04:18 AM, said:

It's a complicated legacy system that never got any real fleshing out.

Every hit against unarmored components, so in SRMs case, every missile fired in the volley that actually hits the target, has a 25% chance of doing 1 crit, a 14% chance to do 2 crits, 3% chance to do 3 crits, and a 58% chance of no crits.

A 'crit' is your full damage applied directly to a random item's - housed in the component - health. For instance, if you score a single crit hit on a double heatsink with one SRM, that's 2 damage subtracted from the total 10 item health (95% of all items in the game have 10 HP), which means nothing.

Crits only actually matter if you're gonna be using a weapon that does 10 or more impact damage, because it'll instantly remove almost every item in the game.

This is because when you roll for crits, you'll have to roll not only to get the crit, but also what item the crit applies to, so lots of small, pathetic hits aren't anywhere near as effective as a single, beefy hit. You'll simply be spreading damage across, say, 3 dubs, a ton of ammo, an AMS, and whatever else is in there, while with an AC10 or PPC, you'd remove whatever you hit.

15% percentage of damage inflicted as crits will also transfer to internal structure, which translates into free bonus damage. A non critting AC10 deals 10 damage. A 1x crit AC10 does 11.5 damage to internals, and 10 HP damage to a single item in whatever component you hit. A 2x crit AC10 will inflict 2 chunks of 10 damage to items, destroying two, and making the total internal damage inflicted 13.

LBX and flamers have adjusted crit values to 39% of 1 crit, 22% of 2 crits, 7% of 3 crits.
Machineguns have 31% of 1 crit, 17% of 2 crits, and 4% of 3 crits.

But all of them do too low damage to 'crit' out items. Stacked machineguns are super destructive when armor's stripped, though, because that 15% bonus damage quickly adds up.

I don't think they've changed the system, so all of the above should be correct in 2015.

I can't recall... but do crits roll on just equipment, or slot locations? Is an item with more slots more likely to be crit through virtue of it's size?

My search-fu has failed.

[Mcgral18]

Kiiyor, on 03 May 2015 - 08:24 PM, said:

I can't recall... but do crits roll on just equipment, or slot locations? Is an item with more slots more likely to be crit through virtue of it's size?

My search-fu has failed.

I'll assume armour and Endo count as Roll Again.


A larger item is more likely to get Crit (as seen with the Engine and AC20).
However, a unpadded single slot item is also extremely likely to be removed.

[stjobe]

Mcgral18, on 03 May 2015 - 10:34 PM, said:

I'll assume armour and Endo count as Roll Again.


A larger item is more likely to get Crit (as seen with the Engine and AC20).
However, a unpadded single slot item is also extremely likely to be removed.

An unpadded single slot item will be crit - the chance to hit that LT heat sink is 100%.

Also, it should be noted that crits on actuators, gyro, cockpit, sensors, life support, even engine crits actually do nothing but soak a crit - the components cannot be destroyed.

[Mcgral18]

stjobe, on 04 May 2015 - 08:43 AM, said:

An unpadded single slot item will be crit - the chance to hit that LT heat sink is 100%.

Also, it should be noted that crits on actuators, gyro, cockpit, sensors, life support, even engine crits actually do nothing but soak a crit - the components cannot be destroyed.

Are you sure about that? I seem to remember them having 10 HP (R&R days). The destruction doesn't functionally do anything, but when destroyed I think they stop crit padding. Also very expensive to repair.

Engine Mounted heatsinks (the extra slots) can also be Critted, but not sure how that works. (How else do you explain a HeatSink being destroyed when only the CT is open?)

[LordBraxton]

As always thank the gods for Vass.

They need to redo the crit system obviously, and maybe SRMs and LRMs could finally fulfill that critseeking role... instead of no role at all...

Orrrrr, thy could buff IS SRM dmg and nerf the huggin quirks to compensate, as it's the only viable SRM chassis currently for IS.

Edited by LordBraxton, 04 May 2015 - 10:06 AM.

[stjobe]

Mcgral18, on 04 May 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

Are you sure about that? I seem to remember them having 10 HP (R&R days). The destruction doesn't functionally do anything, but when destroyed I think they stop crit padding. Also very expensive to repair.

No, now that you mention it, I am not sure. I do know that destroying them doesn't do anything, which was the point I was trying (and failing) to make.

[Deathlike]

Mcgral18, on 04 May 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

Are you sure about that? I seem to remember them having 10 HP (R&R days). The destruction doesn't functionally do anything, but when destroyed I think they stop crit padding. Also very expensive to repair.

Engine Mounted heatsinks (the extra slots) can also be Critted, but not sure how that works. (How else do you explain a HeatSink being destroyed when only the CT is open?)

Engine mounted DHS (the addons, not the built in) would just add to the crit table.

Assume the worst/best case Gargles-D.

6DHS in the engine would expand the crits to this:
6 Crits Engine
4 Crits Gyro
32 (* 6) = 18 12 (18) Crits for 6 Clan (IS) DHS (remember each DHS is separate in the accounting)
2 Crits - whatever weapon is in the CT (ERPPC or 2 CERMEDs)

So, you can have as many as 30 crits in the engine (in IS mechs) based on PGI's "rules".

In the case of something like a Centurion, having DHS in the CT with 275+ engine would help out with crit buffering for the CT energy hardpoints. It's more extreme with bigger engines with DHS in them (all Clan Heavies, particularly the Timberwolf and Gargles).

I hope that clears things up.

Edited by Deathlike, 04 May 2015 - 01:33 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Deathlike, on 04 May 2015 - 01:15 PM, said:

Engine mounted DHS (the addons, not the built in) would just add to the crit table.

Assume the worst/best case Gargles-D.

6DHS in the engine would expand the crits to this:
6 Crits Engine
4 Crits Gyro
3 (*6) = 18 Crits DHS (accounting for all 6 DHS)
+whatever weapon crits in the CT (ERPPC or 2 CERMEDs)

So, you can have as many as 30 crits in the engine based on PGI's "rules".

In the case of something like a Centurion, having DHS in the CT with 275+ engine would help out with crit buffering for the CT energy hardpoint. It's more extreme with bigger engines with DHS in them (all Clan Heavies, particularly the Timberwolf and Gargles).

I hope that clears things up.

I guess that makes sense.

So the WubShee has 27 crit-able CT slots?

[Deathlike]

Oh my bad, it's actually less on the Gargles, because Clan DHS is 2 slots. There's more in the IS because they are 3 slots.

So, the IS gets 30 slots (with a 400 engine) whereas Clans get 24 slots at most (assuming you fill the CT with something other than DHS that takes up both slots).

Edited by Deathlike, 04 May 2015 - 01:31 PM.