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Let's Do A Game: How Many Can You See?


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#41 RAM

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 02:00 PM

View PostStar Colonel Silver Surat, on 04 May 2015 - 01:21 PM, said:

unwillingness of most players there to listen to an experienced player plus that player's rampant style of elitism that seems to inflict many of the best players in Clan units (are they roleplaying?).

Tell us Star Colonel, are you role playing too, quaff?


RAM
ELH

#42 Vassago Rain

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 02:01 PM

On the topic of roleplaying, clan wolf's initial 'roleplaying' is what led to them getting stomped so hard by every good group for about a month of CW.

#43 Asrrin

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 02:43 PM

View PostStar Colonel Silver Surat, on 04 May 2015 - 01:21 PM, said:

Not sure why people are focusing on the trial mechs, or his lack of skills, as the source of the problem. They weren't. The guy wasted his Dire Wolf but that can be one of the easiest mechs to get smashed in (due to being caught out of position), even if you're an experienced player with a mastered chassis. He did fine with the Mad Dog and to a degree, the Stormcrow.

No, the biggest problems here are team dynamics: unwillingness of most players there to listen to an experienced player plus that player's rampant style of elitism that seems to inflict many of the best players in Clan units (are they roleplaying?).

On top of that, MWO's horribly frustrating matchmaker (or complete lack thereof in this case), which has always been its Achilles heel since day one.



Unless something has changed, CW has ZERO matchmaker. you get stuck in the queue and gets whichever enemy is ready at the same time you are.

#44 Deathlike

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 03:07 PM

I haven't gotten to watch the video in full, so when I get free time.. I'll take a look in detail.

One of the things about drop commanding is that it can be a PITA (pain in the arse).

I don't volunteer to do it unless noone decides to do it... and having a drop commander has to be done.


Here's 3 things that's important to the drop commander...


1) People willing to listen, even if they disagree:

I can't really dissuade people from not using LRMs or bad mechs and builds, but I can only "suggest" stuff to them and then they can take it for what it is worth. The thing is that if I'm calling for a certain dropdeck, I hope you're able to eventually get to that point where you can put it together at a whim (have the builds prepared in advance ideally), so that it works more efficiently with everything else. I still prefer having a non-LRMs policy... if only to ensure people are effective at all times... but I don't think that'll stop some people ultimately.

Anyways, people need to try to be flexible as they can on the mech option front.


2) People willing to do what they are told in combat

When a push is ordered, YOU MUST PUSH. Failure to do so is like having 12v11 (or less, depending on the situation). The better teams do it, and it must be executed to the best of your ability when called. You'll eventually get better at it, but you MUST do it when called upon to do so. Not every push will be successful, but you have to understand how you go about getting being better at it... like not being the "only guy in the front" making the push, or just getting the timing down correctly... sometimes you are moving into laser fire from your team... instead of waiting for the laser fire to diminish first... and vice versa (the guy in the back has to be more careful at when to fire, hopefully nothing getting into his Field of Vision).


3) The Drop Commander has to be willing to accept criticism and adjustments

I'm pretty sure I'm flawed at times when doing the drop commanding. Sometimes things have to be said (with the assumption that you need to be told everything so that we're clear) and sometimes things are not said (important details can be forgotten at times). It's almost like being a babysitter, but communication is important to making sure the drop commander is clear on some issues whether it is a bad call or just a bad situation.

There is no wrong answer, but there can be better options/routes.

Reminding people NOT to chase the squirrel is still important as people forget what their objectives are. This is not to tell you that you cannot shoot at it, rather it is important not to expose yourself in a bad position so that the opfor can shoot at you more effectively.

Reminding people to set up properly and not hide in the very far back is important just as well, as noone can come to help you if you self-isolate yourself.

Reminding people that the called target is the optimal target in the drop commander's POV, but if you can't reach it for whatever reason, there are ALWAYS other targets of opportunity... and you need to use your brain to make good decisions. Sometimes people "believe" they make the best decisions, however when judged in a vacuum, it's not a good one at the time. Training yourself to figure out the best target is not always the one called, but there are some simple criterion to make good decisions with... and over time you cannot solely rely on the drop commander for that when he is not on the front lines. Making good decisions gets better results, but ideally the drop commander will attempt to make the best decision at the time, and you need to follow it unless something more important comes up (like seeing a Stormcrow, but then coming upon a Dire Wolf - the Direwolf does have to go first).

A lot of things in the game cannot be covered by a tutorials, but many of the basic fundamentals CAN be covered by a tutorial... AND these things MUST BE BUILT INTO THE GAME. Videos that show the concepts are nice, but you need to practice them realtime in game, and as such necessitates being built into the game to remind people.


Anyways, it isn't a simple task, but the whole thing about drop commanding is a give and take situation... and the more people that are willing to buy into the plan AND execute it effectively usually results in success. Unless you are fighting some of the really high tier units, you are more likely to win than lose when played properly (like 80%, or at least more than 50%).

It's really hard to do this while PUGing, and that's why the level of play is completely inconsistent in MWO. Tutorials are required to train people for basic fundamental MWO skills before a drop commander can usefully utilize them in optimal ways.

That is what the NPE is part of a lingering disaster of epic proportions and it's difficult to correct unless PGI actually bothers to work on such critical aspects of this game. It's hard to keep people here if they are not willing to get past "how do you target other mechs" or even "can I target other mechs".

Edited by Deathlike, 04 May 2015 - 06:05 PM.


#45 Sir Wulfrick

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 03:24 PM

View PostGeneral Taskeen, on 04 May 2015 - 12:21 PM, said:


I can't watch this video; what loadouts, trials? PGI came up with the non-stock trial builds from less than stellar community 'input.'

If you are referring to "Actual" Stock™ from BattleTech, it wouldn't really show anything; it just proves they aren't good against Super Non-BT Build GenericGunBag Robots With Indy500 engines. If they were matched against other Stocks, then the battle might be "close" since that's what they are designed for, taking on other BT Mechs.


I was referring to the current stock builds rather than actual TT loadouts. Wherever PGI sourced the current trial builds from, community input or not, they're universally terrible.

#46 Bill Lumbar

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 04:01 PM

View PostAlistair Winter, on 04 May 2015 - 10:59 AM, said:

Toxicity never helps and it's never ok to be rude against people just because you consider them to be bad players. Their apparent lack of skill is not a personal attack against your person, so it makes no sense to attack them as some sort of retribution.

That being said... there were clearly a lot of new / bad players on that team. I emphathize with the the rude guy's frustration, if not the way he handled it.


Constructive criticism: Taking up position like a sniper in a normal FPS doesn't work in MWO. You started out in a position with your DW where you had a very narrow field of vision to the attack path of the enemy. Which means the enemy was only visible for a split second at a time, and your mech (loaded with CUAC2s) is a build that does damage over time. It's not like a sniper in CoD that only requires a moment's line of sight to land the headshot that instakills someone.

When you're in a slow assault mech, it's a good idea to pick a position where you have a wide field of vision where you have a good view of the enemy as they rush through the defences, and you can lay down lots of fire over time. In other words, you want to look for some more open areas, not hide at the very end of a long and narrow canyon like a pro sniper. And deploying closer to your team makes it less likely that you'll be singled out. And you also don't have to worry about running after the enemy team to catch up with them.

To his defense, he was trying to follow el heffy's orders, even to the end, and after all that was said by him. I agree his choice in position was very bad with the his Dire wolf, but once again, if he would of pushed a better one, he would have not been in spawn waiting for the enemy to come to them. While the spawn camp method can work in a defense in counter attack mode, it won't if ALL members of the team are not on the same page. Clearly, this could not happen with the method the "fearless" know it all leader picked to lead his team.

All I can say is wow, just wow. In my 2 years of playing have I seen worse then this in game....? its a toss up really. I can think of atleast 2 CW matches that have played out similar to this one, and about 5 pug matches that have gone similar, and in fact I have fraps footage of almost every game I have played in the last 2 years. This one might take the taco... but either way it really is just pretty sad when one thinks about it. Do I let guys like his fearless leader get me down in a match, nope.. I sure don't. Hats off to the OP for trying to follow orders to such a "nice" leader of the his team. Honestly, I would have never followed someones command that acted in such a manner, and I would of laughed at him at the end of the match when chances are we won the match with out his expert to tutelage. Seriously, instead of commending the what... ? 4 pilots on his team for staying in spawn, including a clearly new player, he made the choice to smack talk everyone... what a winner we have here.

Would I of team fired on the "leader" of his team just because I didn't like what he was saying and doing, NO I wouldn't have...but truth is if he would of fired on my team first I would of dropped him like a bad habit. This is simply toxic and has no place in any game, this one included. The trouble is, this isn't as uncommon as some might think in this game, I have seen it first hand. I think PGI really needs to take a look at many things with this game, when it hits steam, reviews are gonna be really interesting if some things don't change.

Edited by Bill Lumbar, 04 May 2015 - 04:17 PM.


#47 oldradagast

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 05:09 PM

View PostAsrrin, on 04 May 2015 - 02:43 PM, said:



Unless something has changed, CW has ZERO matchmaker. you get stuck in the queue and gets whichever enemy is ready at the same time you are.


Which some people think is great... despite all evidence to the contrary. We now return you to your regularly scheduled empty CW queues.

#48 Mister Blastman

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 06:00 PM

Wow.

#49 Catalina Steiner

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 03:18 AM

We unapproved this thread because some members have reported it.
I checked it and it will be moved to K-Town. It won't stay in general discussion but the video should be viewable and if it's only because of bad example how you should NOT treat others in chat.

Redacting this post has no value for me as it's something we can experience in every match.

#50 MarineTech

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 11:21 AM

Welcome to K-Town.

What's going on in here?

Posted Image

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh

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#51 GonaDie

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Posted 07 May 2015 - 03:02 AM

Leeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrroooooooooooooooooooooooyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJjjeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnkkkkkkkkkkkkkiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnsssssssssssss!!!

#52 MarineTech

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Posted 07 May 2015 - 04:15 PM

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#53 Mcgral18

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Posted 08 May 2015 - 02:58 PM

Posted Image

#54 GonaDie

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Posted 09 May 2015 - 12:03 AM

What?

#55 MarineTech

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Posted 09 May 2015 - 12:35 AM

Posted Image


Edited by MarineTech, 09 May 2015 - 01:01 AM.


#56 GonaDie

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Posted 09 May 2015 - 08:05 AM

I don't understand cat gifs.Only bird gifs.

#57 MarineTech

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Posted 09 May 2015 - 08:55 AM

Posted Image



#58 GonaDie

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 03:29 AM

Good.

#59 MarineTech

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 03:33 AM

I sleep now.

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#60 GonaDie

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 07:46 AM

Good.You sleep.I will watch.



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