Last night I was in a match, I watched a FS9 take 5 gauss shots.
And it still lived.
The FS9 was dancing and alpha striking a Direwolf.
It shut down at 3 times, managed to kill the Dire Wolf, then turn and killed the Shadow Hawk.
I was in the Shadow Hawk's cockpit watching.
That is just ridiculous.
I understand you put microscopic hit boxes on lights to improve their survivabilty.
Or no one would play them.
Not to mention the lag shield included.
Just plain stupid.
Oh and by the way increase the range on my tag, and fix my freaking lrms.
GRRRRRR.......
Rant over.
Commence QQ.
Last night I was in a match, I watched a FS9 take 5 gauss shots.
And it still lived.
The FS9 was dancing and alpha striking a Direwolf.
It shut down at 3 times, managed to kill the Dire Wolf, then turn and killed the Shadow Hawk.
I was in the Shadow Hawk's cockpit watching.
That is just ridiculous.
I understand you put microscopic hit boxes on lights to improve their survivabilty.
Or no one would play them.
Not to mention the lag shield included.
Just plain stupid.
Oh and by the way increase the range on my tag, and fix my freaking lrms.
GRRRRRR.......
Rant over.
Commence QQ.
So people who play Clans are horrible no skill players who need OP mechs to win but somehow firestarter pilots arent?
Yeah. I've seen similar. I've seen one stop, taking full alpha of lasers, yet the damage either spreads everywhere or gets sucked into the void. Then take it's time picking off my shoulder. If it hadn't dead stopped, I wouldn't complain and chalk it up to bad aim.
My theory on hitbox voodoo for FS9(and Stormcrows for that matter) is:
Two things- first, the hitboxes are actually not that bad in design. So the mech could spread dmg halfway well anyway.
More importantly though, i think the hitboxes were designd on a static mech model, and some cray cray voodoo **** happens when the mechs are animated, like the edges of the hitboxes folding over themselves or overlapping etc. maybe the hitbox folds on itself and creates a "hole" where dmg magically vanishes.
All I know is FS9's can die easy, when they stand still. but when they move it is like the armor triples. Streaks work because they autohit. Single shell ballistics work, IF they register the hit. IMO, the hitbox voodoo means a lot of times they dont. Same with like SRM splats, I think a lot of missiles dissapear into the hitbox bermuda triangle on these things so then the mech can live thruogh stuff that would instagank an assault.
Anyway, PGI is uberreluctant it seems like to make sweeping changes to mech hitboxes unless there is a mech that is so fragile it is required. They seem to rather quirk things instead.
EDIT, when I say stand still, I mean overheat shutdown. Otherwise, nobody stand completely still, arms move to aim etc.
Stormcrow's pretty bad when it comes to hitreg. The funny thing is the Stormcrow and FS both have very thin, tall, vertical box-like hitboxes. Coincidence they both are labeled of having "magic hitboxes?"
My theory is with the current meta of laser vomit, the amount of calculations the server has to make is reaching insane levels. Thinner hitboxes means more "ticks" have to be calculated at a much faster rate as they sweep over an area. The end result is the server incorrectly calculates and/or flat out doesn't even register a calculation was supposed to happen.
End result?
- Mechs with thin, closely packed hitboxes take more punishment (Stormcrow, Firestarter).
- Shorter duration lasers register better damage (Fewer "ticks").
- Longer duration lasers lose damage in heated battles (More "ticks" = higher chance of dropped packets).
That would explain why mechs like the Stalker-4N and Raven-2X feel overpowered. It would also explain why certain Clan builds (especially ones w/ CERLL) feel underpowered. It would explain why the Stormcrow and Firestarter both get labeled as being insanely tough and OP......wait a second....
I...think...I may have just figured out all of MWO's problems. I shall now go assume my place as the Locus of All Knowledge. For those interested in contacting me you can find me at the returns desk of the Phoenix library, or offer me a hamburger.
Edited by Aresye Kerensky, 12 May 2015 - 09:07 PM.
Locationnot the arse hole of the world, but I can see it from here
Posted 12 May 2015 - 09:08 PM
If it took 5 gauss rounds it should have been near stuffed, it seems armour accounts for very little when it comes to longevity on the battle field of MWO, it's all about speed weather that be because of hit reg. or lag shield I do not know. I only played a little TT( and I know it's difficult to translate into a FPS ) but it seems the longevity of lights V assaults is reversed (lucky head shot aside) there may be a way to fix it but I doubt people will appreciate it, add screen/HUD shake to mechs whilst moving similar to jump jetting, the faster one goes the more shake one gets.as movement did make it more difficult to take an accurate shot in TT.this would also address time to kill maybe.
or just fix the hit registration
A Firestarter can easily survive 5 gauss shots if the pilot can't aim. 3 to an arm before it falls off, all torsos can take a few, legs can take a few...
All of this talk of hitreg issues on specific mechs is surprisingly absent in high tier play, be it on a Firestarter or a Stormcrow. Wonder why that is...
I get 44 ping to the server, and hitreg is still a joke.
And this is not isolated to Firestarters, its anything moving fast.
Firestarters are just the easiest to point fingers at, because they have as much DPS as most Atlas.
Been this way for a long time.
As long as a target is mobile, somehow damage data gets lost between what you see, and what the server is trying to interpret.
Get that same light to stand still, and its lights out, right now, bang... dead, most of the time.
But then there are times when no matter how much damage you puke out, stationary target or moving, you keep firing, and nothing gets through, thats the most frustrating times.
This is why having a dedicated LRM support mech is nice. 5-6 LRM5's chews up firestarters and their magic hitboxes like it's going out of style, in a MUCH more efficient way them a LRM boat with a bunch of big launchers.
This is why having a dedicated LRM support mech is nice. 5-6 LRM5's chews up firestarters and their magic hitboxes like it's going out of style, in a MUCH more efficient way them a LRM boat with a bunch of big launchers.
any good firestarter pilot has a decent chance to evade even streaks or to drop their lock, the more so slow as heck lurms
unless it's a huge open place
Edited by bad arcade kitty, 12 May 2015 - 10:00 PM.
All of this talk of hitreg issues on specific mechs is surprisingly absent in high tier play, be it on a Firestarter or a Stormcrow. Wonder why that is...
We know this game DOES have hitreg issues, so it is by no far stretch to assume that when hitreg is poor, the mechs with the best hitboxes will end up being the most survivable.
The most common type of hitreg issues I've seen often require a very small amount of lag shooting to compensate. For example in this video:
Towards the end of the video when chain-firing medium lasers you can see that more than enough shots are landing on the CT to effectively "kill" it, but when you look at the paper doll, most of the damage seems to be wearing down the left torso.
When HSR and/or hitreg is off (even by a small amount), mechs like the Stormcrow and Firestarter instantly become more tanky. Mechs like the Jenner are relatively unaffected because its hitboxes are so large that small deviations in target placement as a result of HSR are insignificant.
I'm not trying to say that the Stormcrow and Firestarter's hitboxes are bad. I personally think they're fine, but I do tend to notice these threads pop up during times when hitreg isn't doing so well, which is the ultimate culprit. I know I don't have any issues taking on Firestarters during periods of good hitreg. During periods of bad hitreg, it's a totally different story.
What needs to be found is the average and/or constant acceptable HSR and hitreg behavior. If crap hitreg is "the norm," then balance needs to adjust to account for normal server behavior, including hitbox adjustments to ensure no mechs end up more/less survivable than they are intended to be for an average server load and average HSR.
You always bring up the "higher-tier play" argument as well, and it's a bit irking. I'm with you on the account that the majority of people who complain about Firestarters just simply don't have good aim, but if I'm going to hazard a guess, the majority of higher-tier players probably don't have average computers and average internet connections. I know there's a few that do, but I'm no stranger to competitive gamers. Excuse me if I don't take the crowd that often runs VPNs, calls ISPs, run dual/triple SLI setups, and buy super low response time/lightstrobing monitors seriously, when they say they don't have hitreg issues.
This is why having a dedicated LRM support mech is nice. 5-6 LRM5's chews up firestarters and their magic hitboxes like it's going out of style, in a MUCH more efficient way them a LRM boat with a bunch of big launchers.
After having piloted one of my firestarters last weekend a bit (to recover from the Jenner experience), I'm going to agree, probably because the LRMs mostly hit the legs. Didn't have radar derp equipped, was YOLOing a bit much, got LRM locked a few times and volley'd. Almost all the damage went to the legs due to jumping and running.
I was starting to worry that this week there was not going to be a "Fix FS9 hitreg" thread.
Hopefully this time PGI will at least say something like "we are looking into the problem". Now let's watch the discussion between the classic "FS9 has no problem, L2P" crowd and the "OMG, FS9 OP!" crowd for the hundredth time.
My position? I don't know if the FS9 has hitreg problems or just great hitboxes, in the meanwhile i sweep the legs and have no problems.
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