260 replies to this topic

[Kristov Kerensky]

Foxwalker, on 07 May 2015 - 02:28 PM, said:

I guess you are hard of reading, then so I will repeat as well. I have done all that. Still can't reasonably use the weapon. You assume, incorrectly. I can use every weapon well except that one. Why should there be some ridiculous learning curve for 1 weapon? There is no real reason for the charge up as the mechanic did not fix the issue it was intended to address.

Thanks -

Ah, so now you let us know that you can't use MORE than just the Gauss.

Well then, that explains a lot doesn't it, you simply aren't good at FPS style games, so there's really nothing that PGI can do about that.

[Foxwalker]

Kristov Kerensky, on 07 May 2015 - 03:00 PM, said:

Ah, so now you let us know that you can't use MORE than just the Gauss.

Well then, that explains a lot doesn't it, you simply aren't good at FPS style games, so there's really nothing that PGI can do about that.

ha ha you got me. good job.

[Toe Cutter]

1 Gauss= no charge up
2 Gauss= currant charge up
3 Gauss= longer charge up

That would work for me

[Lyoto Machida]

Lightfoot, on 07 May 2015 - 02:55 PM, said:

If Battle Tech said there is a charge-up phase, it would be so in all the previous MechWarrior games because they adhered to the Battle Tech descriptions, and I wouldn't care. But that is not what Battle Tech says and PGI can't just say we are making a Battle Tech game if they only follow Battle Tech when it's the easy path. You end up with the current Laser-CheezeWarrior because everything else is neutered.

Strangest of all is that Lasers kill the fastest, not normal firing Gauss Rifles so the whole premise of the Gauss charge-up saving mechs from short TTK's is false. It has created the opposite result, shortening TTK's by being replaced with lasers. The Gauss's advantage is only range not DPS. Sure it's dangerous, but no more than the other weapons in Mechlab. Having a normal firing Gauss makes MWO look like a normal multi-range MechWarrior battle.

Maybe the real problem is the 2xGauss, but they feed that with the de-sync. Just make it impossible to fire two Gauss at once if that is the problem or remove the de-sync if just one is fired.

I think the Gauss de-sync has generated more complaints than the Gauss+PPC meta did.

I'm ok with removing the Gauss charge up if we restore SRMs to being (semi?) guided weapons, ECM and all the things it counters back to TT functionality and JJs as they were described in the TT rule set. That's a start.

Can't complain about deviating from lore and then picking and choosing what is lore compliant and what isn't.

[Khobai]

gauss does still need a nerf. chargeup failed to balance it.

15 damage for 1 heat at long range was always stupid...

[Pjwned]

Khobai, on 07 May 2015 - 05:49 PM, said:

gauss does still need a nerf. chargeup failed to balance it.

15 damage for 1 heat at long range was always stupid...

It's fine aside from some quirks making it stronger than it needs to be on certain mechs, especially the Grid Iron which is an especially egregious example.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

FupDup, on 05 May 2015 - 11:56 AM, said:

The problem is that other ballistics would basically be obsoleted pretty hard. You'd have to either nerf some other aspect of the Goose Waffle, or give hefty buffs to all the other ballistics.

Even with the charge, the Goose is an effective Tier 1 weapon, so I don't think it really needs a buff like this.

The easy fix is to give Gauss the same hard limit of the ISPPC. 90m and under, no damage.

[Johnny Z]

Flash Frame, on 07 May 2015 - 07:39 PM, said:

The easy fix is to give Gauss the same hard limit of the ISPPC. 90m and under, no damage.

Theres a good chance that 90 meters and under should be removed from the PPC. We are living in a game of 1 ton, 7 damage CERML and 15 damage CERPPC after all. Why the 7 ton, 10 damage PPC (Inner Sphere weapon if anyones wondering) with WAY less maximum range than the CERPPC does no damage under 90 meters in these conditions is beyond me.

This is why I take most complaints from omni mech pilots as drivel. Even the spash damage from their 15 damage CERPPC which is 2.5 dmg is more damage than the Inner Sphere AC 2 which is 6 tons + at least 3 tons ammo = 9 tons and does 2 damage!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I have to read them complaining about their 2.5 x 2 spash damage(this 5 damage is part of the 15 damage total to be clear).

I wonder how Clan players would react if Inner Sphere got a ERPPC with 2 Ac2's strapped to the sides of it..............

Lastly the 2 damage AC 2 at 6 tons + 2 tons ammo(ammo relaint weapon, 7 damage CERML is 1 ton and no ammo needs)and is an auto cannon and I have read 1000 replies from Clan players saying Inner Sphere auto cannons are over powered and that their auto cannons need improvements.....

Edited by Johnny Z, 07 May 2015 - 08:45 PM.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Flash Frame, on 07 May 2015 - 07:39 PM, said:

The easy fix is to give Gauss the same hard limit of the ISPPC. 90m and under, no damage.

For gauss I believe is 60m.
But I would introduce for all weapons cannon min range. And those would be AC5, AC2, gauss, PPC. But aggressively scaled down style, not like all or nothing like with PPC now. I think that would fix some balance problems. Like boating AC5, double gauss, etc. Would promote more balanced builds.
Then charge up mechanics could go away safely.

[Lightfoot]

Lyoto Machida, on 07 May 2015 - 05:02 PM, said:

I'm ok with removing the Gauss charge up if we restore SRMs to being (semi?) guided weapons, ECM and all the things it counters back to TT functionality and JJs as they were described in the TT rule set. That's a start.

Can't complain about deviating from lore and then picking and choosing what is lore compliant and what isn't.

Exactly. MWO looked most like a MechWarrior game in April 2013 with all the weapons working more or less according to Battle Tech. MWO doesn't look or play like a MechWarrior game now.

[Khobai]

Quote

It's fine aside from some quirks making it stronger than it needs to be on certain mechs, especially the Grid Iron which is an especially egregious example.

again its not fine. 15 damage for 1 heat at long range is stupid. its one of the main offenders thats caused this retar ded long-range meta right up there with CLPL, CERLL, and stalker/thunderbolt quirks.

Quote

The easy fix is to give Gauss the same hard limit of the ISPPC. 90m and under, no damage.

which fixes nothing since the meta is dominated by long-range weapons and not brawling weapons. if brawling was actually a thing that change might matter.

one of the biggest problems with the game right now is max weapon ranges on gauss, erppc, and certain lasers (CLPL and CERLL). Those weapons all need their max ranges brought in significantly. Also brawling weapons like IS-SRMs and Clan ACs need some serious buffs.

brawling needs to be brought back into parity with long-range. if you bring brawling back then LRMs also get better because more brawling means BAP counters ECM more readily and locks get held more often. a healthy meta is one that has an equal balance of long-range/sniping, brawling, and LRM support.

Edited by Khobai, 07 May 2015 - 10:25 PM.

[SaltBeef]

I thought the IS PPC 90m range failsafe was from Lore due to risk of pilot neural feedback and blowback damage to the weapon system.
The Clans and their superior technology brought on by securing their tech as Negotiable territory in Combat instead of destroying it like the IS did during the Succession Wars.

ANY WAYS off topic

On Topic Gauss charge up needs reworked! 1 tap for charge-up cycle that holds ( renders weapon vulnerable to unarmored critical hits )...can be aborted but un-readies the weapons system for a time. another tap fires it but recharge time is increased.

Edited by SaltBeef, 08 May 2015 - 01:36 AM.

[The Great Unwashed]

Johnny Z, on 07 May 2015 - 08:16 PM, said:

I wonder how Clan players would react if Inner Sphere got a ERPPC with 2 Ac2's strapped to the sides of it..............

Clan ERPPC heat is awful and the splash damage to the sides isn't really helping. the slow-speed projectile is difficult to aim consistently at the same mech component at range (assuming people do not stand still); few people use them as the clan LPL is much more useful with more damage to the correct component and it is much better to aim. If you want 2 AC2s with your IS ERPPCs, go ahead, see how you like it when you get the same heat and no quirks whatsoever. Clan ERPPCs could need a buff...

[Y E O N N E]

There's no difference between C-ERPPC and IS-ERPPC performance on non-quirked 'Mechs. The gun should be usable on any 'Mech, not just the ones with stupid, arbitrary, broken modifiers.

Both the Clan and the IS ERPPC could use a buff.

That said...

An HBR with 2x C-ERPPC and 2x C-ERML, ECM, a TC Mk. II, and the rest DHS...performs identically to the Thunderbolt. Same number of linked PPC shots before overheating, but you get ECM, you run faster, you cool faster, your backup guns have longer range, and you get the benefits of the TC Mk. II. The TDR-9S gets faster PPCs and a little bit more structure to compensate for being slower and it gets heat-gen buffs to compensate for its worse dissipation. That is parity if there ever was any in this game, and I'd say that comparison is probably what PGI was going for.

[SaltBeef]

Some mechs Needs Quirks , ( Mist Lynx ) just not super stratosphere quirks. Structure and Component buffs were needed much more on many mechs and are still needed on a few. Heat dissipation bonuses were welcome on the Awesome , Warhawk could use some good ones.
Clan ERPPC should get the 15 damage since they register 50% of the time when they hit. My Faction members noticed the Hit reg problem when the Wave 1 Mechs were 1st released.

Edited by SaltBeef, 08 May 2015 - 01:43 AM.

[Bobzilla]

Khobai, on 07 May 2015 - 10:10 PM, said:

again its not fine. 15 damage for 1 heat at long range is stupid. its one of the main offenders thats caused this retar ded long-range meta right up there with CLPL, CERLL, and stalker/thunderbolt quirks.



which fixes nothing since the meta is dominated by long-range weapons and not brawling weapons. if brawling was actually a thing that change might matter.

one of the biggest problems with the game right now is max weapon ranges on gauss, erppc, and certain lasers (CLPL and CERLL). Those weapons all need their max ranges brought in significantly. Also brawling weapons like IS-SRMs and Clan ACs need some serious buffs.

brawling needs to be brought back into parity with long-range. if you bring brawling back then LRMs also get better because more brawling means BAP counters ECM more readily and locks get held more often. a healthy meta is one that has an equal balance of long-range/sniping, brawling, and LRM support.

So a min range is bad because there isn't enough brawling?

Wouldn't min range encourage brawling?

I mean if the gauss had a min range (i suggest 180m, with no charge) anyone with a dual would be dead in a brawl. So it would atleast eliminate those loadouts. Even 1 is a lot of tons/slots devoted to a weapon that does no dmg in a brawl. Also a brawl favors IS mechs and weapons, so more brawling would benifit the clan/is balance.

[Lightfoot]

Bobzilla, on 08 May 2015 - 06:42 AM, said:

So a min range is bad because there isn't enough brawling?

Wouldn't min range encourage brawling?

I mean if the gauss had a min range (i suggest 180m, with no charge) anyone with a dual would be dead in a brawl. So it would atleast eliminate those loadouts. Even 1 is a lot of tons/slots devoted to a weapon that does no dmg in a brawl. Also a brawl favors IS mechs and weapons, so more brawling would benifit the clan/is balance.

Gauss Rifle has a 2 hex minimum range, but short range is 1 to 7 hexes, so the minimum range would only be a damage reduction not a no-damage minimum like the PPC. The text also doesn't mention a no damage minimum (and no one would use the Gauss if it did no damage within 180 meters, it's the lowest DPS per ton weapon in Battle Tech already).

[Chuck Jager]

SaltBeef, on 08 May 2015 - 01:40 AM, said:

Some mechs Needs Quirks , ( Mist Lynx ) just not super stratosphere quirks. Structure and Component buffs were needed much more on many mechs and are still needed on a few. Heat dissipation bonuses were welcome on the Awesome , Warhawk could use some good ones.
Clan ERPPC should get the 15 damage since they register 50% of the time when they hit. My Faction members noticed the Hit reg problem when the Wave 1 Mechs were 1st released.

SO that means IS ERPPC with the same hit issues get the same extra 50% damage. Remember the memo, clan and IS are equal and different in this alternate universe (lasers vs AC - ppc somewhere in between and lore is a suggestion not science). ERPPC stink just as much for both sides.

Just pick the best block of cheese you can find. It taste great and does not leave an after taste.

[Pjwned]

Khobai, on 07 May 2015 - 10:10 PM, said:

again its not fine. 15 damage for 1 heat at long range is stupid. its one of the main offenders thats caused this retar ded long-range meta right up there with CLPL, CERLL, and stalker/thunderbolt quirks.

The gauss is fine when not affected too much by quirks because it's the heaviest weapon in the game, has the lowest DPS:tonnage ratio of all weapons, requires shots to be charged unlike any other weapon, and it's a liability when it explodes and does internal damage unlike any other weapon. Additionally, gauss would be seen as less of a problem if we didn't have instant pinpoint convergence on every weapon from every hardpoint location, so it's not just the weapon even if you think all its drawbacks are still not enough.

As for the clan large lasers, I don't really see that much of a problem with the C-ER LL because of its very long burn time, but the range on C-LPL is completely out of hand and it needs to be toned down a lot; something like 420m range would be much more reasonable. The range on the C-LPL is so high that, combined with increased damage and decreased burn time, there are a number of cases where you'd rather use it for sniping than the C-ER LL and that's just stupid.

By the way, back when pulse lasers were buffed I said that the range buff on C-LPL was too much but it went through anyways, and now people complain about too much laser vomit from long range.

As for quirks, yeah some of them are definitely out of line and it needs to be looked at.

Quote

which fixes nothing since the meta is dominated by long-range weapons and not brawling weapons. if brawling was actually a thing that change might matter.

one of the biggest problems with the game right now is max weapon ranges on gauss, erppc, and certain lasers (CLPL and CERLL). Those weapons all need their max ranges brought in significantly. Also brawling weapons like IS-SRMs and Clan ACs need some serious buffs.

brawling needs to be brought back into parity with long-range. if you bring brawling back then LRMs also get better because more brawling means BAP counters ECM more readily and locks get held more often. a healthy meta is one that has an equal balance of long-range/sniping, brawling, and LRM support.

If there were more options for brawling like not garbage machine guns, flamers, small lasers, and SSRMs then brawling would be more prevalent. SRMs are also questionably useful at times, especially when hit registration makes them disappear into the void, and IS medium (pulse) lasers run hotter than they should because PGI is stupid and has kept it at 4 heat when it should be 3.

Edited by Pjwned, 08 May 2015 - 05:25 PM.

[LordBraxton]

Gauss is OP as ****, only ballistic I use these days

If you can't hit with a gauss rifle IDK how you hit with anything but lasers.

It travels so fast... easiest weapon to aim, and it's even good for brawling.

Just select extra weapon groups so your green squares tell ya when to shoot.