260 replies to this topic

[shellashock]

Gauss charge is fine as it is. The real issue with it is that it punishes people using a single Gauss (not like that matters much with Grid Iron level quirks of course), by creating a desync that has to be manually adjusted for while leaving dual gauss/quad gauss builds virtually unscathed. As someone who uses Gauss on 80-90% of my mechs, I can say that the skill cap for the charge mechanic is MUCH lower if you use a dual gauss build compared to say a single gauss + lasers build. Point, charge a bit and release for near instant 30 point alpha is pretty ridiculous.

[The Great Unwashed]

The problem with the Grid Iron is that it gets 16 tons of Gauss Rifle for free and it gets a huge LT armor/health buff (+18/12 pts). So you can put 60 points of armor there. I was personally offended by the quirks when loosing out a duel in my Gauss Summoner (only viable build?) that has half the rate of fire and less armor in the same section. How's that for 25 tons of more clan mech?

I know the Summoner is a pay-to-loose mech and the Grid Iron quite the opposite, but idiot quirks first and fixed Standard Structure second, are much, much bigger problems that the Gauss Charge which only takes a bit of practice. No matter the time spent in the gym to make the Summoner loose some weight.... it will remain a bad mech (sorry, I meant to say fire support mech).

I agree that dual Guass is very powerful and it's too bad no clan mech can field them effectively except the DWF... if the WHK could drop those 7 fixed hea tsinks it might become a viable Gauss mech. So there we are again; fixed items on clan mechs reduce their viability. The possibility to add quad Gauss' to a Direwolf is a potential problem as well; I wish they started hard point restrictions or hard point sizes to avoid these mechs from getting built in the first place....

Anyway. the low weight of the clan Gauss is completely irrelevant in the clan/IS balance discussion and current game mechanics and the charge is simply a matter of practicing more...

Edited by The Great Unwashed, 09 May 2015 - 01:47 AM.

[Pjwned]

shellashock, on 08 May 2015 - 05:57 PM, said:

Gauss charge is fine as it is. The real issue with it is that it punishes people using a single Gauss (not like that matters much with Grid Iron level quirks of course), by creating a desync that has to be manually adjusted for while leaving dual gauss/quad gauss builds virtually unscathed. As someone who uses Gauss on 80-90% of my mechs, I can say that the skill cap for the charge mechanic is MUCH lower if you use a dual gauss build compared to say a single gauss + lasers build. Point, charge a bit and release for near instant 30 point alpha is pretty ridiculous.

I've played both dual gauss and gauss + ER LL a number of times and I don't see how it's more difficult at all to throw in a laser or 2, especially considering lasers are hitscan unlike gauss rifles.

I guess if you have the most ancient, tiny piece of crap mouse with only 2 buttons to go with your keyboard then yeah it might be a bit harder, otherwise just why.

[Gremlich Johns]

Johnny Z, on 05 May 2015 - 11:54 AM, said:

Yes this is a topic of what just took out my mech.

Going 150kph across the path of a dual gauss Dire Wolf. He shoots once and takes out the right torso of my Commando. Completely fresh.

The Gauss charge is not effecting aim for some at all.... while basically making it useless for most others.

Yes the guy using the gauss was from a usual suspect guild. Unable to miss......

Yes I did take out a mech before going down that decided to try running away which is why my commando was completely fresh before getting one shotted. I feel bad for the locust running into my commando built to fight lights by the way.


Adding this...

Leave the Gauss charge up as is and add a toggle that allows it to auto fire when the charge is complete. The toggle could be similar to the AMS and ECM toggle.

This leaves the current mechanic in tact for those that "say" the charge up is fine the way it is now, but also allows the same benefits those using macros to fire the gauss get.

I dont see how anyone could complain about this option being added since the use of macros firing Gauss is well known and common for gauss users.

Giving the option for it to auto fire to 3rd party program users when using the Gauss Rifle and also giving a similar option to regular players if possible is only fair.

Just because the Dire Wolf pilot was able to hit you does not mean the Gauss is the issue. Any good pilot is going to know his weapons and how to lead - you got shot by a good gunner, that is all so quit whining. Charge should not have any affect on aim. And your idea for Gauss charges up and then auto-fires? Baloney. If anything, if the pilot does not shoot, the charge should dissipate and the pilot starts over. Frankly, if you want to complain about something, lights, with no knockdown in the game, are the biggest pain there is. If I alpha a light, it should fall right over so I can kill it.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 09 May 2015 - 05:52 AM.

[The Great Unwashed]

Pjwned, on 09 May 2015 - 05:40 AM, said:

I've played both dual gauss and gauss + ER LL a number of times and I don't see how it's more difficult at all to throw in a laser or 2, especially considering lasers are hitscan unlike gauss rifles.

You can even group the ERLL and GAUSS in the same weapon group; paint with the laser and let the button go when the rifle if charged for some additional damage. Also put the GAUSS in its own group. With a bit of restraint this works really well. You need the face-time for the ERLL anyway.

Edited by The Great Unwashed, 09 May 2015 - 06:43 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Gremlich Johns, on 09 May 2015 - 05:49 AM, said:

Frankly, if you want to complain about something, lights, with no knockdown in the game, are the biggest pain there is. If I alpha a light, it should fall right over so I can kill it.

Only if Assaults get their torso twist limited to 30 degrees and have a twist rate of 2 degree/sec will that be okay.

[FupDup]

Gremlich Johns, on 09 May 2015 - 05:49 AM, said:

Frankly, if you want to complain about something, lights, with no knockdown in the game, are the biggest pain there is. If I alpha a light, it should fall right over so I can kill it.

If you use a large alpha and aim it effectively, a light actually will fall right over...permanently.

[Lightfoot]

To those who say the Gauss Charge-up fixes anything or creates a challenge that fixes anything look. (no I am not the pilot, it's just a good example to show for the discussion. thx D)



So, no. Nothing was fixed except to make the weapon for elite pilots instead of everyone. That's all that defused the Gauss+PPC meta. Lowering the number of players who could use the Gauss to those who could make the charge-up work.

What fixes the Gauss Rifle for real and for certain is to give it a longer recharge than the AC20. You can't elite that or avoid it, you can only stay at long range to exert the Gauss Rifle's only advantage, long range accuracy. I know it works because I PvP'd for years in earlier MechWarrior games where this was the only drawback for the Gauss and it figured into every battle. Would you be able to use that range or would you be beat by higher DPS weapons for taking the Gauss. It should be more or less the same for MWO.

Edited by Lightfoot, 09 May 2015 - 09:14 AM.

[Yokaiko]

Lightfoot, on 09 May 2015 - 09:10 AM, said:

What fixes the Gauss Rifle for real and for certain is to give it a longer recharge than the AC20. You can't elite that or avoid it, you can only stay at long range to exert the Gauss Rifle's only advantage, long range accuracy. Trust me, I know it works because I PvP'd for years in earlier MechWarrior games where this was the only drawback for the Gauss and it figured into every battle. Would you be able to use that range or would you be beat by higher DPS weapons for taking the Gauss.

Gauss + charge = 4.75 seconds
IS AC20 = 4 seconds

Just saying.

[Lightfoot]

Yokaiko, on 09 May 2015 - 09:12 AM, said:

Gauss + charge = 4.75 seconds
IS AC20 = 4 seconds

Just saying.

5 - 5.5 seconds is what's needed. It grants definite advantages to both weapons.

[Yokaiko]

Lightfoot, on 09 May 2015 - 09:16 AM, said:

5 - 5.5 seconds is what's needed. It grants definite advantages to both weapons.

Its already like waiting on christmas.

No. Specially not on a weapon you can assume is going to blow off the part of the mech its mounted to. AC20 already has a DEFINATE advantage up close, that being 133% of the damage with 17% faster cycle, its ~3.2 dps to 5 for the AC20.

....and even that only applies IF you fire the moment the charge is complete, which isn't always the case.

[Lightfoot]

Yokaiko, on 09 May 2015 - 09:30 AM, said:

Its already like waiting on christmas.

No. Specially not on a weapon you can assume is going to blow off the part of the mech its mounted to. AC20 already has a DEFINATE advantage up close, that being 133% of the damage with 17% faster cycle, its ~3.2 dps to 5 for the AC20.

....and even that only applies IF you fire the moment the charge is complete, which isn't always the case.

That's what makes the Gauss Rifle a long range specific weapon though. I thought that's what all the original Gauss+PPC meta crap was all about.

I dunno, at this point MWO has no weapon balancing that makes the gameplay anything like Battle Tech. Battle Tech combat is best. Weapons have their own place or strength and weakness and that's how you build your mech. With that gameplay becomes too varied to predict and no one mech load-out will work every time, but each weapon has a sphere of highest power and players must use tactics to leverage that greater power. It's waaaayyyy better than Laser-Brawl.

[Yokaiko]

Lightfoot, on 09 May 2015 - 09:51 AM, said:

That's what makes the Gauss Rifle a long range specific weapon though. I thought that's what all the original Gauss+PPC meta crap was all about.

You have never watched me light smack with a Gauss then, its actually easier than an AC20 to remove that annoying FS9 from the field.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Or, you know, make it so you cant charge up multiple Gauss?

Then you can increase their cooldown by 1 second because they have no business having such a short cooldown in the first place, and people with multiple Gauss can charge and fire their second shot while the first is on cooldown.

Removes PPFLD and puts Gauss superiority in check AND makes it a long range weapons instead of an all range weapons.

Edited by AntiCitizenJuan, 09 May 2015 - 10:13 AM.

[Lightfoot]

Yokaiko, on 09 May 2015 - 09:54 AM, said:

You have never watched me light smack with a Gauss then, its actually easier than an AC20 to remove that annoying FS9 from the field.

Lasers are better, fastest, lightest. You don't need 15-30 tons of them to one-shot Lights.

[Yokaiko]

Lightfoot, on 09 May 2015 - 10:54 AM, said:

Lasers are better, fastest, lightest. You don't need 15-30 tons of them to one-shot Lights.

Don't have to chase the little ******** either.

[Pjwned]

Lightfoot, on 09 May 2015 - 09:10 AM, said:

To those who say the Gauss Charge-up fixes anything or creates a challenge that fixes anything look. (no I am not the pilot, it's just a good example to show for the discussion. thx D)

None of those shots in the video were difficult to land at all because the enemy team largely sat in front of the walking fortress dire wolf, so you're not really proving much with a video like that.

[Lightfoot]

Pjwned, on 10 May 2015 - 08:16 AM, said:

None of those shots in the video were difficult to land at all because the enemy team largely sat in front of the walking fortress dire wolf, so you're not really proving much with a video like that.

Except that the Gauss charge-up does not work as intended or stated. A 5.25 or 5.5 second charge time with no charge-up would and no one could get around it, but everyone could use the Gauss. The mechs are all moving in the video except for the one that shut down and at very close range and with a back-up of 2xERPPCs.

But you deny-ers go on and ruin MWO. Turn it into the arcade laser-shooter you love so much. Because that is what you do when you ruin all the weapons but the Laser. MWO will only be a Battle Tech game when you get over your fear and allow all the weapons to function normally. They all destroy mechs so stop being such a bunch of squeamish ninnies and let's make MWO play like Battle Tech. That's all you should require and that is the better MechWarrior game.

GL&GH

[Apocryph0n]

It does not matter where a pinpoint focused build hits you, when it hits you, you'll lose that component, especially in a light. And losing a component in a light = death (unless it's an arm)

And a light at 150 is not really hard to hit unless you have potato aim or he is literally huggin your back at point blanc,*

Pinpoint is btw a very nice way of getting rid of the lights with "messed up hitboxes".

So, OP might want to look for the mistake on his own end and not throw passive aggressive hackusations in the room.

*in which case someone else next to you should kill him.

Edited by Apocryph0n, 10 May 2015 - 11:30 PM.

[smokefield]

i dont know why ppl are still complaining about the this. when they added the gauss charge it was a warcry on the forums opposing this atrocity. it cant be played, you destroyed the gauss, you made the weapon useless.... were the rage posts. Now that people actually got the grasp of it and paly it well...those who didn't..for whatever reason, come here and cry again.

gauss is not op. it is a weapon that should be feared, especcialy in the hands of a good pilot, both on long and short range. and it is a weapon that require a certain degree of skill. so go get it. it will make the game more fun for you.