40 replies to this topic

[Fragnot]

XXXBunnyXXX, on 07 May 2015 - 09:49 AM, said:

have seen alot of preaty competitive builds that noobs definitely wuldnt build

Being new to this particular game, and being new to internet gaming, are two different things...

When I started MWO last year I looked up some online resources first and used my cadet bonus plus some cash to build a cookie-cutter mech for each weight class, then started grinding out mastery. I knew I would suck until I got familiar with the maps and could afford skills and mods; but having 'good' mechs/loadouts was at least something I could control from the start.

[Fate 6]

XXXBunnyXXX, on 07 May 2015 - 10:17 AM, said:

i just dont think elo is really effecting the mm..i have my main account in a so called high elo and most of my team doesnt even do 400+ dmg

No, your main account is not high elo. Teamkilling and complaining about LRMs being OP pretty much guarantees that.

If you were high elo you'd be able to tell. I actually get dropped with mostly players from recognizable units, but there are always a few bad players because the matchmaker balances out the goods with bads. It averages Elo, so instead of a team of 2000 elo players against a team of 2000 elo players it has some 1000s, some 1500s, and some 2800s vs the same.

[Kiiyor]

I've done the same thing... lots. And yes, it absolutely does use ELO.

With a new account, I took to the battlefield like a vengeful god striding among cripples and cowering bronys, and all who stood before me were smote.

The experience reminded me of a bible quote my pacifistic grandmother sent me whilst I was deployed:

"A thousand may fall at your side, ten thousand at your right hand, but it will not come near you."
Psalm 91:7

[Alistair Winter]

XXXBunnyXXX, on 07 May 2015 - 09:49 AM, said:

yea i just made a new account played a couple of battles and i can definitely see that this game doesnt use elo


have seen alot of preaty competitive builds that noobs definitely wuldnt build

I was thinking the same thing when I started my clan account. Not just competitive builds, but I also noticed I was playing against some good players, the same guys I'd been seeing with my regular account since 2012.

Apologists will talk about small playerbase and matchmaker being forced to mix different Elo levels to get a match going, but... I don't know. I think matches would be more fun if MM just tried to seperate veterans from rookies, without paying too much attention to what guys end up on what teams. For example, if you've played 0-99 matches, you're a rookie. No matter what. If you've played 100-999 matches, you're a cadet. If you've played 1000 matches or more, you're a veteran. You can change the numbers and the names, but I'd really prefer to play with other "veterans" instead of the current system. I'd like a matchmaker that ensures I'm never in a match with someone who doesn't know how ECM works.

[Fate 6]

Alistair Winter, on 07 May 2015 - 03:42 PM, said:

I was thinking the same thing when I started my clan account. Not just competitive builds, but I also noticed I was playing against some good players, the same guys I'd been seeing with my regular account since 2012.

Apologists will talk about small playerbase and matchmaker being forced to mix different Elo levels to get a match going, but... I don't know. I think matches would be more fun if MM just tried to seperate veterans from rookies, without paying too much attention to what guys end up on what teams. For example, if you've played 0-99 matches, you're a rookie. No matter what. If you've played 100-999 matches, you're a cadet. If you've played 1000 matches or more, you're a veteran. You can change the numbers and the names, but I'd really prefer to play with other "veterans" instead of the current system. I'd like a matchmaker that ensures I'm never in a match with someone who doesn't know how ECM works.

Plenty of "veterans" are bad players though. Knowing how the game works doesn't change the fact that they just aren't good.

[Xmith]

XXXBunnyXXX, on 07 May 2015 - 10:31 AM, said:

sean / and that russian dude ... phyto on something like that ... i even see them on this account with not so good stats... i have a 2.5 k/d ratio

2.5 k/d is pretty good.

So, what does you w/l stat say?

[Alistair Winter]

Fate 6, on 07 May 2015 - 03:48 PM, said:

Plenty of "veterans" are bad players though. Knowing how the game works doesn't change the fact that they just aren't good.

I know, I know. It's a matter of picking your poison.

[Fragnot]

Fate 6, on 07 May 2015 - 03:31 PM, said:

It averages Elo, so instead of a team of 2000 elo players against a team of 2000 elo players it has some 1000s, some 1500s, and some 2800s vs the same.

Is there a source for this?

I've seen links others have posted explaining that the MM starts with a single player and then populates with others within a 50pt Elo range. Then, if it can't fill the game within 2 minutes, it starts to expand the the range. That makes sense with how I'd think an Elo MM should run and it fits my personal experience. I usually get games within 2 minutes and most the people I play with seem to be around my skill level.

I just haven't seen a source link yet that says MM pulls Elo's from such a wide range just to get an average for each side. I know lots of players believe this, so I'm interested in where this was explained initially.

[Tarogato]

Roadkill, on 07 May 2015 - 10:01 AM, said:

Fun fact: brand new players are given average Elo ratings. That's how Elo ratings work. 50 games later, they'll have either risen or dropped to a more appropriate rating.

So if you're an average player, you're going to see a lot of new players in your matches.

You would think so... but it's worse than that.

Karl Berg has stated that new players do not start at 'average Elo'. They actually start at 800 or 900 Elo and have to work their way up. This is different from most Elo systems, which start new players at 1200 - closer to an average rating.

Despite the fact that new players start at a lower than average rating, I still get a LOT of matches where I might be an average player, but I'm on a team with MadCatNoob001 who can't operate a mouse and keyboard at the same time and also somebody else with an extraordinarily high Elo rating like prominent members of the topmost competitive teams. This combination simply shouldn't exist in solo queue, ever. Group queue, I can understand the complications. But in solo queue? Come on...

[Fragnot]

Tarogato, on 07 May 2015 - 04:18 PM, said:

I still get a LOT of matches where I might be an average player, but I'm on a team with MadCatNoob001 who can't operate a mouse and keyboard at the same time and also somebody else with an extraordinarily high Elo rating like prominent members of the topmost competitive teams.

I don't think you are an average player as you claim. You play in tournaments yourself and post excellent stats and achievements in your sig. So of course you see other high Elo tourney players in your drops.

The MadCatNoobs you see are most likely truly average players who get pulled in to fill your games when there isn't enough high Elo players to pop a queue quickly. To a high Elo player, average players can look like derps.

[XX Sulla XX]

New players have a low mid level starting Elo. In other words an Elo that fits with the majority of people in the game. Then the match maker puts together people of different Elo to come up with an over all team Elo to match the other team. So new players are put right in with veteran players of all Elo ranges.

Personally I think new players should have something special done with match making to make it easier or them for a while.

Edited by XX Sulla XX, 08 May 2015 - 05:50 PM.

[Kyynele]

The players that aren't that good in the game aren't necessarily stupid. A lot of the new players that aren't very good in the game can read the forums, are aware of the meta, drive meta builds, and likely do a little bit better in them than they would do in random frankenmechs of their own.

The last time I made a new account, I, too, did notice that there's a lot of meta even at the bottom of the barrel. And there are occasional "good" players in those matches, too. But the fact is, that if you're any good, you will completely wreck the matchmaking by grossly exceeding what's expected of you for your Elo, and singlehandedly carry most of the matches you're thrown in.

My first match in a Locust that I bought, no modules, no efficiencies, just 190XL and 5 MLs:



There's a huge difference between the matches I typically play, and the matches I get to with my alt. And that's not even the bottom of Elo.

[Tarogato]

What the heck? Somebody's a smartalec...

Fragnot, on 08 May 2015 - 05:05 PM, said:

I don't think you are an average player as you claim. You play in tournaments yourself and post excellent stats and achievements in your sig. So of course you see other high Elo tourney players in your drops.

The MadCatNoobs you see are most likely truly average players who get pulled in to fill your games when there isn't enough high Elo players to pop a queue quickly. To a high Elo player, average players can look like derps.

We can't see Elos, so you can't tell either way unfortunately, and it makes matchmaker discussions all the more frustrating. I do know that my W/L is 1.12 (Elo is based on W/L ratio), and it's on the low end compared to the rest of my unit, and my unit is lowest quartile of competitive team seeds. I'm definitely not incredibly high. =P

[Intrepid]

Tarogato, on 08 May 2015 - 06:31 PM, said:

What the heck? Somebody's a smartalec...

Name and Shame is a violation of the Code of Conduct!

[Roadkill]

Tarogato, on 07 May 2015 - 04:18 PM, said:

Karl Berg has stated that new players do not start at 'average Elo'. They actually start at 800 or 900 Elo and have to work their way up. This is different from most Elo systems, which start new players at 1200 - closer to an average rating.

I don't have the post(s) handy, but I believe that the way Karl explained it is that the Elo ratings work normally (which is to say, new pilots have an average rating), but that until you have completed your 25 "Cadet" missions the matchmaker applies a -200 modifier to your rating for matchmaking purposes only. Your actual rating is maintained normally, it's just treated as if it's 200 points lower when you're put into matches until you've finished 25 matches.

[Tarogato]

Roadkill, on 08 May 2015 - 08:26 PM, said:

I don't have the post(s) handy, but I believe that the way Karl explained it is that the Elo ratings work normally (which is to say, new pilots have an average rating), but that until you have completed your 25 "Cadet" missions the matchmaker applies a -200 modifier to your rating for matchmaking purposes only. Your actual rating is maintained normally, it's just treated as if it's 200 points lower when you're put into matches until you've finished 25 matches.

Ah, you may be right on that. Not sure if you'll find it in any posts, he talked about it on a podcast, actually.

[Koniks]

I don't remember that from his Paging thread. I remember something like what Roadkill said.

[Joseph Mallan]

Intrepid, on 08 May 2015 - 06:38 PM, said:

Name and Shame is a violation of the Code of Conduct!

He liked the post... Was he shamed???

[Yokaiko]

Tarogato, on 08 May 2015 - 06:31 PM, said:

What the heck? Somebody's a smartalec...

holy crap that is hilarious.

[Goose]

• If you are getting the Cadet Bonus, you are also playing under a 200 point crutch to your Elo
  
• Teh reported 50 point spread between PuG teams can mean anything I want, what with averages, and even if it ment one was withing 50 pts of somebody in the match, friend or foe, it still implies a 1200 spread from best to worst player
  
• "group = good game/ PuG = bad game" just shows we need have twice as many Elo scores per player then we currently have
  
• Release Valves render suspect all observations … and I think Teh Devs are measuring things wrong

We have no direct evidence of Elo: We have only indirect …