24 replies to this topic

[MauttyKoray]

I looked at the most recent patch notes and came across this:

All weapons with a Max Range over 1500m will now register their damage correctly.

I wondered, am I the only one that cringes seeing weapons even reading 1500m? Let alone past and requiring a fix to make sure they deal damage?

I'm not against the weapons stretching out past their original 'effective' range, but do you think 2x is too much?

Edited by MauttyKoray, 07 May 2015 - 09:01 PM.

[El Bandito]

MauttyKoray, on 07 May 2015 - 08:59 PM, said:

I'm not against the weapons stretching out past their original 'effective' range, but do you think 2x is too much?

It is too much. If we had the default 1x range value, we would have decent brawling in this game already. No more getting focused by twelve LL STK-4Ns or getting pinged by Sniper Lights from near 1000 meters away. Ballistics will improve due to their current slow speed becoming much less of an issue thanks to shorter range of engagement.

At least we are done with the stupid 3x range of ballistics. Boy that was ridiculous.

Edited by El Bandito, 07 May 2015 - 09:22 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

Weapons doing damage beyond 1500 meters basically just means more rookies will waste their gauss ammo on Alpine Peaks and run dry three minutes into the match. That's the only real impact on gameplay I can think of.

<shrug>

[Escef]

El Bandito, on 07 May 2015 - 09:06 PM, said:

It is too much. If we had the default 1x range value, we would have decent brawling in this game already.

We'd have almost nothing but brawling. Ranges would be too short to do any kind of long range fighting. If we went by TT ranges LRMs (one of the longest range weapons in the game) would cap at 630 meters

[Khobai]

certain weapons definitely have too much range, notably CLPL, CERLL, C&ISGauss, ERPPC with thunderbolt, and LL with stalker. brawling weapons like IS-SRMs, IS-Streaks, and Clan ACs also need some major buffs.

healthy meta = balanced mix of long-range, brawling, and lrm support (more brawling makes lrms better because ecm gets counter by bap and locks get held!).

what we have now = lopsided long-range laser light show, almost no brawling, lrms friggin dead

Quote

It is too much. If we had the default 1x range value, we would have decent brawling in this game already.

We definitely need to make brawling part of the game again. Theres no debating that.

But like I said before, we want a balanced meta. Not one thats lopsided.... we dont want a sniping meta, or lrmageddon meta, or splatapult meta. We want a good balance of all three playstyles. Thats what will enable players to play whatever they want and not feel disadvantaged for it.

I think knocking everything back to x1 is a bit extreme. Again the problem weapons are the ones I stated above: CPLP, CERLL, C&ISGauss, ERPPCs with thunderbolt quirks, and LL with stalker quirks. Those are the weapons responsible for the current lopsided meta.

Edited by Khobai, 07 May 2015 - 10:50 PM.

[627]

how many weapons can even reach so far? And even if they can, that's the max range, they do nearly no damage at that point.

According to smurfy, only the c-gauss, lb-2x and (u)ac2 have range beyond 1500meters, oh and CER-PPC.
I wonder why the gauss is so long, is that still triple effective range instead of just double?

However, I think this was a minor bug and won't have much impact in the game. At that range, it is paint scratching, nothing more.

[Khobai]

the problem range is 800m-1200m. Weapons that do decent damage in that range are the ones causing this lopsided long-range meta.

For example:
LRMs and Gauss have almost equal range in tabletop. But Gauss completely outranges LRMs in MWO (LRMs are horribly ineffective beyond 600m or so). That makes no sense and needs to be fixed.

[generalazure]

627, on 07 May 2015 - 10:51 PM, said:

how many weapons can even reach so far? And even if they can, that's the max range, they do nearly no damage at that point.

Does not matter if they do no more than scratch the paint, still counts as a kill assist at the end. I think of those as "money shots" myself and Paulconomy dictates I take them

[Kiiyor]

Alistair Winter, on 07 May 2015 - 09:08 PM, said:

Weapons doing damage beyond 1500 meters basically just means more rookies will waste their gauss ammo on Alpine Peaks and run dry three minutes into the match. That's the only real impact on gameplay I can think of.

<shrug>

YEAH.

* Unless they're in their surprisingly awesome JM6-A dual Gauss boat, with it's utterly insane 2500m or so max range...

[Alistair Winter]

Kiiyor, on 08 May 2015 - 03:47 AM, said:

YEAH.

* Unless they're in their surprisingly awesome JM6-A dual Gauss boat, with it's utterly insane 2500m or so max range...

God damn it.

I sold all my Jagers in 2013. I swore never to buy them back. With range module, it's 2574 meters... You do full damage at 858 meters.

Hypothetically speaking... what kind of engine would you put in there?

[MeiSooHaityu]

We are talking 1500m plus here.

It's not worth panicking about a weapon at 1500 Meters doing 1 or 2 dmg instead of 0 (or something along those lines)

It's ok, no worries.

[627]

Alistair Winter, on 08 May 2015 - 04:03 AM, said:

God damn it.

I sold all my Jagers in 2013. I swore never to buy them back. With range module, it's 2574 meters... You do full damage at 858 meters.

Hypothetically speaking... what kind of engine would you put in there?

common gaussapult was 260-280XL so around that i'd say.

[FupDup]

I remember the early part of open beta where it was basically a brawlfest, and people complained about long-range guns being pointless.

Then I remember when long-range became a factor, and they complained about short-range being pointless.

Then PGI went on a mini-crusade against long-range, and people complained about PGI's systematic attempts to kill any combat taking place past 600 meters.

Now we're back to complaining about long range again.


MAKE UP YOUR FREAKING MINDS ALREADY, GAH

Edited by FupDup, 09 May 2015 - 07:20 AM.

[Kiiyor]

Alistair Winter, on 08 May 2015 - 04:03 AM, said:

God damn it.

I sold all my Jagers in 2013. I swore never to buy them back. With range module, it's 2574 meters... You do full damage at 858 meters.

Hypothetically speaking... what kind of engine would you put in there?

THEORETICALLY, I would heartily endorse the stunning untamed power of an XL225.

You would need an extra heatsink, and your mech would make wheezing noises climbing hills, but really, Dual Gauss is all about the Gauss. As long as you can keep up with DireWolves and most 'Sphere fatties, you're golden.

EDIT: Also, I would be remiss If I failed to mention the awesome and majestic Dakka machine that is the bangin' double D. It's jam rate is 30% lower. With a little discipline, I can empty my ammo bins quicker with that beast than in my quad UAC5 DakkaCrab.

Edited by Kiiyor, 08 May 2015 - 05:10 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

I remember the early part of open beta where it was basically a brawlfest, and people complained about long-range guns being pointless.

Then I remember when long-range became a factor, and they complained about short-range being pointless.

The problem is PGI doesnt know how to fine tune.

They swing things too far in one direction or the other. They need to incrementally balance the weapons until long-range and brawling are in parity with eachother.

[Satan n stuff]

Khobai, on 08 May 2015 - 10:43 AM, said:

The problem is PGI doesnt know how to fine tune.

They swing things too far in one direction or the other. They need to incrementally balance the weapons until long-range and brawling are in parity with eachother.

And when they do that everyone complains they're moving too slow.
Be happy they're at least trying to balance the game, plenty of developers don't bother.

[Weeny Machine]

The insane range is also a reason why you see the laser spam meta. ER Lasers have no velocity and still do relatively good damage on 1000m+

No surprise brawlers are screwed and weapons with velocity are often shunned.

[Mcgral18]

This was mainly about the isERLL which stopped doing damage at 1500M (fine pre quirks)

Although some robots now have 911M isERLLs which would deal damage past 1800M, which stopped at 1500M. Don't know how that affected drop off.


They'll now deal 3 damage at 1500M, at any rate.

Edited by Mcgral18, 08 May 2015 - 12:00 PM.

[Satan n stuff]

Mcgral18, on 08 May 2015 - 11:59 AM, said:

This was mainly about the isERLL which stopped doing damage at 1500M (fine pre quirks)

Although some robots now have 911M isERLLs which would deal damage past 1800M, which stopped at 1500M. Don't know how that affected drop off.


They'll now deal 3 damage at 1500M, at any rate.

As far as I know it never affected damage dropoff, 1500 was just a global cutoff range.

Edited by Satan n stuff, 08 May 2015 - 12:06 PM.

[Quaamik]

The solution to the argument between long range meta weapons and short range brawlers is held in the maps - with cover. But everyone complains about maps with too much cover and no way to take those nice, clear 900+ meter shots.

You want brawling to come back? Lobby for a map where the longest possible unobstructed shot is 650 - 700 m, and most approaches are restricted to 300 - 400 m shots. Think the tunnels in a few of the maps. But then everyone not in a heavy or assault would hate t, as it would be a deathtrap for them.