52 replies to this topic

[MaddogA1]

So been playing alot of CW for the clans as of late. Seems the only weapon system that i see from the IS is LL . When i play on teams that have alot of Timbers i win when i do not i Lose . Thoughts ?

[Flutterguy]

and the bait is set....

[LordBraxton]

dark blue lasers vs light blue lasers because hit-reg\accuracy

[Eider]

Clan erll vs is LL.. so you are complaining about? I mean clan lazers should be hitting way further.

[Khobai]

weapon ranges on CERLL, CLPL, ERPPC, Gauss, and stalker LL quirks all need to be reduced.

we need a better balanced meta where long-range and brawling both have a place.

[EvilCow]

Khobai, on 08 May 2015 - 09:14 PM, said:

weapon ranges on CERLL, CLPL, ERPPC, Gauss, and stalker LL quirks all need to be reduced.

we need a better balanced meta where long-range and brawling both have a place.

You are thinking to one map. The game is already mostly done in brawl range. In my opinion one of the problems are ammunitions, this is why you see a lot of energy fight in CW but not in short games.

I have excellent IS/Clan ammo-based mechs but I would never use any of those in CW except, maybe, some dedicated LRM boats with 10tons+ of ammo.

CW maps could use reload bays for defenders, deployed ammo crates for attackers. I also would like to see minor repairs, for example recover to up 33% of armor in each location but without recovering lost limbs/weapons/equipment nor internal structure. There should be an advantage in being able to save a mech from an attack/defend wave.

Edited by EvilCow, 08 May 2015 - 09:25 PM.

[Black Arachne]

Game has great balance.....yeah not even close.

[Khobai]

Quote

You are thinking to one map. The game is already mostly done in brawl range

no the game is not mostly done in brawl range. wtf are you even talking about.

brawl range is like 270m or less. most of the fighting takes place at 500m-1000m. thats not brawl range at all.

if we had more fighting at 270m or less, BAP/NARC would counter ECM a lot more, target locks would get held more frequently, and LRMs would have an actual purpose as a brawler support weapon.

Quote

In my opinion one of the problems are ammunitions, this is why you see a lot of energy fight in CW but not in short games.

ammunition has nothing to do with it. gauss uses ammo and you still see gauss all the time in CW.

lasers/gauss/thunderbolt erppcs = decent range and instant or very fast travel time which makes them easy to hit with at long range.

lasers = use most commonly available hardpoint, have very low tonnage/crit requirements, and thus are very easy to boat. lasers also get better quirks in general than other weapons (i.e. stalker 4N/targeting computer)

again the problem is the long ranges and the near instant or very fast projectile speeds which makes hitting at long range very easy.

The range of clan lasers, ERPPC, Gauss, and stalker quirks all need to be reduced. IS SRMs/Streaks and Clan ACs need to be buffed. By encouraging more close-in fighting you also make LRMs a more reliable weapon. Everything gets brought back into parity.

Edited by Khobai, 08 May 2015 - 09:57 PM.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Why do you see so many IS LLs? Because most of those builds are getting quirks for LLs, meaning that three IS LLs are putting out 27 points of damage for less than 20 points of heat out to around 550m range for 15 tons. Which is to counter the frequency of Clan Mechs toting two LPLs doing 26 points of damage for 20 heat out to 600m for 12 tons.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Khobai, on 08 May 2015 - 09:14 PM, said:

weapon ranges on CERLL, CLPL, ERPPC, Gauss, and stalker LL quirks all need to be reduced.

we need a better balanced meta where long-range and brawling both have a place.

Give us 1x ranges and 40-50 point heat scales. The long range wont always be cool enough to fire and once the brawlers get in close, its a **** fest...better hope your own brawlers are near by or you get out DPS'd badly with all that slow firing and hot LL/ERPPC/Gauss...stuff...

[Davegt27]

Quote

brawl range is like 270m

I did not know that there was a brawl range

my beam wolf spends most of its like in the nerf corner so its CERLL don't do much

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

LordKnightFandragon, on 08 May 2015 - 10:20 PM, said:

Give us 1x ranges and 40-50 point heat scales. The long range wont always be cool enough to fire and once the brawlers get in close, its a **** fest...better hope your own brawlers are near by or you get out DPS'd badly with all that slow firing and hot LL/ERPPC/Gauss...stuff...

Don't even need to do that. Just debuff all the garbage laser ****. Knock the C-LPL, C-ERLL, and IS LPL back to down to 10 damage, knock the IS LL and IS LPL back up to eight heat, and knock the IS ML and IS SL back to stock values remove all heat gen quirks and suddenly something besides laser puke is competitive.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 08 May 2015 - 10:29 PM, said:

Don't even need to do that. Just debuff all the garbage laser ****. Knock the C-LPL, C-ERLL, and IS LPL back to down to 10 damage, knock the IS LL and IS LPL back up to eight heat, and knock the IS ML and IS SL back to stock values remove all heat gen quirks and suddenly something besides laser puke is competitive.

IKR? Give a weapon that has hit scan, unlimited ammo, fast cool downs, kinda light and deal more dmg then heat....why take anything else?

It'd be like giving the Machinegun class in any FPS game sniper accuracy with the recoil of a air gun, the ammo capacity of a machinegun and the damage of a Assault rifle.....nothing else is used. lol.

[xe N on]

Problem is that brawling weapons namely SRMs are too weak.

Buff IS-SRMs to 2.5 damage and Clan SRMs to 2.2 per missile and reduce spread by 20%.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

LordKnightFandragon, on 08 May 2015 - 10:43 PM, said:

IKR? Give a weapon that has hit scan, unlimited ammo, fast cool downs, kinda light and deal more dmg then heat....why take anything else?

It'd be like giving the Machinegun class in any FPS game sniper accuracy with the recoil of a air gun, the ammo capacity of a machinegun and the damage of a Assault rifle.....nothing else is used. lol.

Pretty much. All the large class lasers have more than TT damage values and less than TT heat values. Then the small and medium class beam lasers all have more than TT heat values.

[Ace Selin]

EvilCow, on 08 May 2015 - 09:21 PM, said:

You are thinking to one map. The game is already mostly done in brawl range. In my opinion one of the problems are ammunitions, this is why you see a lot of energy fight in CW but not in short games.

I have excellent IS/Clan ammo-based mechs but I would never use any of those in CW except, maybe, some dedicated LRM boats with 10tons+ of ammo.

CW maps could use reload bays for defenders, deployed ammo crates for attackers. I also would like to see minor repairs, for example recover to up 33% of armor in each location but without recovering lost limbs/weapons/equipment nor internal structure. There should be an advantage in being able to save a mech from an attack/defend wave.

Pretty much this, most good teams brawl these days, very few teams allow long range sniping.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Ace Selin, on 08 May 2015 - 10:47 PM, said:

Pretty much this, most good teams brawl these days, very few teams allow long range sniping.

WAT?

I see long to medium range fighting almost exclusively.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Grisbane, on 08 May 2015 - 11:10 PM, said:

I am guessing you are mostly in pug drops in CW.. the only time i see medium range fighting is when we are killing pug groups faster than they can replenish. against a good organized unit the tactics depend on map.. 1 or 2 maps are snipe-fests in opening stages.. otherwise it is almost always an in-your-face furball... and in those furballs.. almost no-one brings lrms (except a certain Ghost Bear unit .. *cough.. _CGBI.. Cough*)

LOL, I dropped with a pug group of IS on defense against a CGBI mixed unit and the CGBI guys lost........it was actually kinda sad to see...I was expecting a ready, set, game over, total ass whooping, but in the end, us on the IS side won.

[Yosharian]

The main problem with these discussions is you have the professionals and veterans talking about the game at a very high level and then everyone else talking about long range combat and LRMs. It's like the story of the elephant - people only see the bit they experience and then apply that when they talk about balance.

[CocoaJin]

LL should be the most desired laser. While mediums would be the most effective and efficient(tonnage,cooling, DPS), assuming fights will readily transition to brawling range and energy hardpoints aren't a limiting factor.

Every military unit seeks to find the longest effective range for its weapon system. Shorter ranges are only chosen as a compromise due to some limiting factor.

Every mech should seek to mount as many Large-type lasers as their tonnage and cooling will allow...unless they can dictate range and then choose mediums, especially if they can mount more mediums than they could large, up to the limits of their desired cooling.