407 replies to this topic

[CHH Badkarma]

Wanderingpaws, on 11 May 2015 - 02:35 PM, said:

I'm a Clanner myself but even I think this is insane...

Cant tell if alt account and just trolling or just very naive

[Tanis McGavern]

Telmasa, on 11 May 2015 - 07:04 PM, said:

Band-aid for the real problem....

The tonnage wasn't the issue, the superquirks WERE.

If you reduced the super-quirked IS mechs to a reasonable norm (and brought other underquirked mechs up to that norm), while keeping that tonnage limit difference, I really think most players could have been happy with that.

You want IS mechs to behave like they did in BT canon? Why don't clanners start by behaving like clanners did in BT canon and stop focus firing/spawn camping/using arty and start demanding to drop in stars rather than companies. Never been more frustrated than getting demolished by clan lights swarming a drop zone shooting and dropping arty on anything in front of them. This won't happen, of course, but don't complain of disparity on one side and ignore it on the other.

[Domenoth]

Kay Wolf, on 11 May 2015 - 08:06 PM, said:

Y'know, I've said my peace, here... Battle Value would solve so many problems that none of you are willing to acknowledge could be done, but you're so scared of changing anything, or trying anything new, that you just dismiss it out of hand. You say Battle Value is an overly complicated system, but you can't tell me why tonnage is better, more even, and then you ***** and complain that everything's out of whack. That's fine, stick with the stupidity, and good luck.

I think the only way you could do it would be to assign each weapon a value dependent on what Mech it's installed in. By that I mean a large laser has X points on a Thunderbolt and Y points on a Locust. Add up all the point values for all the weapons in your build, and that's your value. You have to do it this way so that if you take a really crappy build on a Thunderbolt, you aren't penalized for the Thunderbolt itself.

If you don't do it that way, all the "You brought <Mech Name> to CW? You can't bring <Mech Name> to CW..." will just turn into "You brought <Weapon Type> on a <Mech Name> to CW? You can't bring <Weapon Type> on a <Mech Name> to CW..." and that's not really an improvement at all.

Having said that, how many Weapon and Mech combinations are possible right now? Pretty sure that's a gigantic number that would require way too many games' worth of data to establish an accurate baseline.

[ConquerorClass]

Adamski, on 11 May 2015 - 07:06 PM, said:

There are no super-quirked mechs, just mechs that have been quirked to the Clans level.

Clan are OP, their movement, XL engines, perpertual laser vomit, so blatantly tiring.

but the quirks are a quick jab to a clanners face if they aint prepared...

the jaeger A... twin gauss, 9 tons ammo.
module.

gets 2564m+-..?! max range.
856m effective... 1700m droppoff....
hitting pin point.

support your group and stll get 600-800 per jaeger.

top that clanner, but get in close, and youll mop the floor..

Jaeger A is OP.

[Lunatic_Asylum]

IS are actually much stronger than Clans. Pinpoint damage is too insane. I welcome the change as an IS player!

[Suzumiya Haruhi no Kerensky]

was really tire of bringing mechs that doesnt get one shot by streakboat, arigato pgi

[Helaton]

I would guess from the statistics that followed Tukayyid, they might have stats that support the change. Then again they might not.

Perhaps they use the Mercs that switched to measure balance. Same pilots in different mechs, are they doing more damage/kills/etc in IS or Clan mechs? They doing 2800 in Clan and 3200 in IS?

Who knows. If it was as simple as encouraging population like in the past, they would probably just do the CBill/GXP modifiers. Kurita would be at 50%, CSJ & CGB would be at 200% bonuses.

[PraetorGix]

Well done. PUG vs Team is the real imbalancing factor here, along with populations in each faction. That stupid ton advantage for these crying IS babies was out of place from the start and is well gone now.

[Kyynele]

WTF is this I don't even

There is no real reason to defend or conquer planets. Most people playing CW just want their loyalty points to get ranks and the stuff that comes with them.

Give a damn reason to care about what happens on the map, THEN start balancing the game mode IS vs Clan based on what's happening on the map.

edit: my IS drop deck is already 240 tons, so this doesn't affect me in any way. Also, my unit's home faction is CGB. The reasoning to this is just stupid, I'm not crying about losing my crutch.

Edited by Kyynele, 11 May 2015 - 09:27 PM.

[Surn]

"this is madness!"
this ....is... CW. (front kick)

[PraetorGix]

Domenoth, on 11 May 2015 - 08:37 PM, said:

I think the only way you could do it would be to assign each weapon a value dependent on what Mech it's installed in. By that I mean a large laser has X points on a Thunderbolt and Y points on a Locust. Add up all the point values for all the weapons in your build, and that's your value. You have to do it this way so that if you take a really crappy build on a Thunderbolt, you aren't penalized for the Thunderbolt itself.

If you don't do it that way, all the "You brought <Mech Name> to CW? You can't bring <Mech Name> to CW..." will just turn into "You brought <Weapon Type> on a <Mech Name> to CW? You can't bring <Weapon Type> on a <Mech Name> to CW..." and that's not really an improvement at all.

Having said that, how many Weapon and Mech combinations are possible right now? Pretty sure that's a gigantic number that would require way too many games' worth of data to establish an accurate baseline.

Ohh, but didn't you know? here everyone is a game developer, what do PGI know after all? A neckbeard is all the qualification you need in the magical forumland.

[ConquerorClass]

Domenoth, on 11 May 2015 - 08:37 PM, said:

I think the only way you could do it would be to assign each weapon a value dependent on what Mech it's installed in. By that I mean a large laser has X points on a Thunderbolt and Y points on a Locust. Add up all the point values for all the weapons in your build, and that's your value. You have to do it this way so that if you take a really crappy build on a Thunderbolt, you aren't penalized for the Thunderbolt itself.

If you don't do it that way, all the "You brought <Mech Name> to CW? You can't bring <Mech Name> to CW..." will just turn into "You brought <Weapon Type> on a <Mech Name> to CW? You can't bring <Weapon Type> on a <Mech Name> to CW..." and that's not really an improvement at all.

Having said that, how many Weapon and Mech combinations are possible right now? Pretty sure that's a gigantic number that would require way too many games' worth of data to establish an accurate baseline.

I get Kay's point.....

a THUNDERBOLT has awesome high points.... ERLL or ERPPC, is uber.... get a catapult C1? with 4 ERLL on its nose.... NOT THE SAME BRAND OF PEW PEW.....

so straight up a thunder is 65 points.... a catapult is 40ish.... catapult is in the line with poor vindicator.

this BV is great idea... simplified maybe and a little work, it'd be a good indicator of "optimised - Meta" and "garbage"

like a thunderbolt 5s...?!
3 med
LL
lrm 15
srm 2...

JUST as bad as a vindicator as well.

[Torchfire Katayama]

xSONOHx, on 11 May 2015 - 04:34 PM, said:

Wait, did people really call IS mechs OP? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH!

Edit: You can prove that the IS is OP to me by finding at least one IS assault mech in the game that can have 4 UAC/20s with 70 rounds and a small laser. Oh wait, only clans have that for now.

uh.... 70 rounds 4 damage a shell is... let me do the math here... 280 damage? well worth it isn't it. oh but wait! after half those rounds have missed because its NOT one shell like the IS ac 20 we're only looking at 140 damage. But never fear! I've got my trusty small laser in the 50 kph walking tortoise wider than two atlasi

[LastKhan]

Torchfire, on 11 May 2015 - 09:41 PM, said:

uh.... 70 rounds 4 damage a shell is... let me do the math here... 280 damage? well worth it isn't it. oh but wait! after half those rounds have missed because its NOT one shell like the IS ac 20 we're only looking at 140 damage. But never fear! I've got my trusty small laser in the 50 kph walking tortoise wider than two atlasi

Also why bring the direwhale to CW unless ur in a competent 12 man group or base defense.. Rather not waste my 240 on it. To the reset in drop deck all i can say is, Meh. I would like CW to eventually do like supply lines stuff like if you're to stretched out your deck is reduced or something.

Edited by LastKhan, 11 May 2015 - 09:47 PM.

[Suzumiya Haruhi no Kerensky]

missing with half the shots isnt the weapons fault

[Freebrewer Bmore]

I understand this move IF the intent were really more to see how things play out with a re-equalized tonnage limit, now that people understand CW in ways they didn't at the beginning of CW Beta. However, if that is indeed the case then this represents very poor communication, because A.) it'd be at least courteous to not just spring it out of the blue on people who were planning to run now-suddenly-invalid dropdecks, and B.) yeah on the surface it sure does seem more motivated by the tide of battle than by experimentation.

That in turn is worrisome because it makes you wonder what the heck they think the real driver behind that tide of battle is. It's not about the 10 tons. Yeah, there are some disproportionately strong chassis, but 10 tons doesn't fix them anyway:

Pariah Devalis, on 11 May 2015 - 03:18 PM, said:

3x Thud, 1x FS9 = 230 tons. Meta deck UNCHANGED
2x Stalker, 2x FS9 = 240 Tons. Meta deck UNCHANGED

...and besides, much of the problem requires balancing gameplayers rather than gameplay:

Crockdaddy, on 11 May 2015 - 03:33 PM, said:

With the pop levels fairly low Having massive MERC cartels completely over balances the game depending on what faction they are fighting for. The tonnage had little to do with it ... the issue was IS currently has the bulk of the MERC groups so it should be no surprise that IS is winning everywhere.

I'm actually in one of those "massive merc cartels", only right now we happen to be Clan (which means I'm sitting out of CW for a couple weeks until we switch back, because I don't do Clan)... and yeah, I see how having units like mine bouncing back and forth and sometimes all lining up together wreaks havoc with the starmap. However, messing with the tonnage limit is not going to do anything about that. More incentives (for sticking with long-term contracts, or for breaking contracts to come to the aid of beleaguered factions) might. Even better could be to work out some different game mechanics for flipping planets that aren't as vulnerable to these kinds of population imbalances.

[Suzumiya Haruhi no Kerensky]

2 lights isnt a meta deck

[Fenris Kell]

LOL at all the 'sky is falling' people. I've done 4+ CW drops today since the change, and we still beat the clans in every drop. Stalker/Thunderbolt/Wolverine/Firestarter. And most times didn't need the 4th mech. The tonnage change affected nothing, except that some of us had to switch out a T-bolt for a Wolverine. As far as what is OP and what isn't...I'll Roll my 4n Stalker and Thunderwub T-bolt against a Dire wolf, and Timber, any day of the week. Feel free to friend me and we'll set up a private match. ;-)

[Tiamat of the Sea]

In a sad sort of a way, I find it a wonder that people are assuming the fluff reasoning given in the opening post of this thread is the actual reasoning for the change.

Rather than coming to the eminently more reasonable conclusion that the +10 tonne IS drop deck was an experiment they did that they chose to use during the Tukayyid event as well, and have now concluded and either decided it was not the way to go, or are currently working over the data gathered during that time to figure out what to do next.

[Torchfire Katayama]

Hmmm I'll just throw this out there, wonder what ballistic quirks the mauler is going to receive? My bet is something like

20% ballistic cooldown
20% ballistic velocity
10% ballistic range
12.5% ballistic heat gen
20% ac2 cooldown
20% ac2 velocity
10% ac2 range
12.5% ac2 heat gen

Could probably fit 2 of those in your Cw drop deck eh?

Edited by Torchfire, 11 May 2015 - 10:02 PM.