407 replies to this topic

[Telmasa]

Adamski, on 11 May 2015 - 08:28 PM, said:

You trollin right? The TDR has a compact model / hitbox? They gave it ST structure quirks because its so fat and juicy.
The 5SS has an optimal of 353m with quirks and modules, which is less than a IS LL (450) base range. I'm not going to bother refuting anything else you have to say regarding mech or equipment balance since its obvious you have no F'ing clue what you are talking about.
Yes, the 60% / 53% clan win rate does not represent everything, but it does represent the in match balance when done over a large enough sample of matches. (Tukayyid being an especially good example because you can drill down and see the different premade 12 man win%).
What the win rate does not represent, is population imbalance / territory gained, which is IRRELEVANT when discussing faction/mech balance.

It's flat. If you can't figure out how to twist your torso with a Thunderbolt and minimize your profile between shots (which, thanks to its quirks, is superbly easy), then you're blind. It doesn't need toughness quirks. I'm not the best Thunderbolt pilot ever but even I can rack up 800-1200 damage with my XL-engine TDR-9SE without even trying.

That's just wrong. And the 5SS is only more OP than the 9SE is, in both quirks & hardpoints & being easier to mount a STD engine on.

Those numbers not only don't prove "everything", they actually prove "nothing" about IS vs. Clan balance. Saying it doesn't represent anything about population imbalance is just ignorant.

Tanis McGavern, on 11 May 2015 - 08:37 PM, said:

You want IS mechs to behave like they did in BT canon? Why don't clanners start by behaving like clanners did in BT canon and stop focus firing/spawn camping/using arty and start demanding to drop in stars rather than companies. Never been more frustrated than getting demolished by clan lights swarming a drop zone shooting and dropping arty on anything in front of them. This won't happen, of course, but don't complain of disparity on one side and ignore it on the other.

No. I don't. I drive IS mechs too, in fact I drive more IS mechs than I do clan ones.

I saw far more IS groups during the event doing the spawncamp/consumable spam thing than clan ones, frankly speaking.

As I said, you're only seeing things from your own skewed single side. Play both sides of the fence, then you can start forming your opinions.

IS mechs can be fairly balanced against Clan ones without being given god-mode powers. Normalize all IS quirks across all IS mechs, nerf Streak-6s, give the Stormcrow the Jenner treatment, realize the Timberwolf isn't going to be that great once the Black Knight arrives when it comes to 75-tonner laser boating, and we'll be a long way towards achieving an acceptable level of assymetric gameplay balance.

MechaNagato, on 11 May 2015 - 10:12 PM, said:

thats 8 damage, almost as much as a single large laser

And it recycles every 0.7 seconds (and less than that if you have quirks). Sure it has some heat, but it's such low heat per-shot that it's quite managable despite what Smurfy might say.

I had tons of fun with my 4xAC/2 Jagermech-S before they came up with the UAC/5 jam reduction quirk, so I switched to the Jagermech-DD; when the Mauler arrives you can count on me making that thing the AC-2 boat from hell.

Try getting a full laser burn on me when I'm pumping 8 damage into you almost every half-second. (And can do it from a longer range than you can, too.)

Edited by Telmasa, 11 May 2015 - 10:27 PM.

[Suzumiya Haruhi no Kerensky]

any mech boating ballistics (aside from gauss) has to expose itself for far longer than any laser boat

[Torchfire Katayama]

MechaNagato, on 11 May 2015 - 10:30 PM, said:

any mech boating ballistics (aside from gauss) has to expose itself for far longer than any laser boat

Your kiddin right bro?

[Suzumiya Haruhi no Kerensky]

with 4 ac/2s you would have to expose your self for seven alphas in order to do the same damage as a timberwolf does in one

Edited by MechaNagato, 11 May 2015 - 10:38 PM.

[happy mech]

thank you
+1 for 1:1 balancing

[LastKhan]

hmm whelp put it into practice. walk the walk not talk the talk i say.

By looking at the Mauler's current concept art the ballistics are relatively nipple heightish. and say you have 4 AC 5s with 2 meds as a build which im sure would fit reasonably. Lets exclude quirks. Peaking lets say a hill and you peak over and fire. Thats 20 dmg out the door if alpha'd im sure you'll have at least a second and a half maybe a second to duck down / torso twist away from incoming fire then really its kinda roughly the same or even better since clan lasers have longer burn times thus leading to more face time. unless you're incompetent in your piloting abilities..

Edited by LastKhan, 11 May 2015 - 10:59 PM.

[Suzumiya Haruhi no Kerensky]

poking out my entire torso at 270m or less is not ideal in any mech

[charov]

I am a bit uncertain about this. I played a dozen matches with a Atlas Founder because of the last challenge (I was third but then I gave up due to lack of spare time) and I had more problems dealing with Stalkers 4N then any TW o Crow. Probably because I usually played clans since the Invasion, so I know where hit them. Also, Clans usually do more damage but the critical point here is the beam time. No point in "washing" the target with lasers when you can fire less but get a kill.

I played 15 matches during the Battle of Tukayyid and I've won most of them. Why? Because my opponents were a bunch of terribad pugs, with avg damage like 500 or 600 ( how can you be so bad?!). I have lost only when I've found competent opponents on the other side of the map and I'm not talking about 12-man premades, just small groups of 2-3 players but with a known tag.

The problem with IS is that the vast majority of the random players are in their rows. That doesn't usually happen with clans.
I would really like to see the avg Elo of the two factions.

[Nightshade24]

Tom Sawyer, on 11 May 2015 - 02:32 PM, said:

Rejoice clanners for your whines of IS OP has been heard.

Once again the IS gets screwed over. It was not enough that we got flooded with attacks and could only respond.

How about Tukayyid 2 where the clans have to defend and we can flood attack?

Really? remember the event before Tukayyid that basicly clans lost what... 47 planets without gaining ones?

IS cries clans OP when Clans out number IS in players and win due to CW bug: nerf clan weapons in general
Still happens?: buff IS drop deck
Still happens?: Nerf clan engine and energy weapons more
Clans now so underpowered that a bare fraction of the community stuck with clans (in active CW) and is lossing many planets while IS gain x4 more planets then clans per day?: #Perfect ballance.
IS now getting dozens of planets in a week without clans getting anything, clans are getting nearly to the same point they were at day 1 of CW map: "Oh, IS isn't OP, it's just MM issues that has been around forever and obviously clans were still OP and it wasn't MM issue, lets just fix that issue and not do anything with clans at all!"

now CW has relatively equal wins and losses and now it's back to clans OP?

Good to know.










With that sarcastic wall out of the way from the majority os IS whiners on the forums.
I do hope to see the clan quirks to be improved quite a bit and removing the linked ghost heat AT LEAST for smaller energy weapons and upgrading clan ER Large lasers/ pulse to 3's like IS.

[meteorol]

I'll totally just get a wolverin 6k instead of 1 thunderbolt.

Oh no wait i won't because CW isn't worth getting a new mech.

[Torchfire Katayama]

MechaNagato, on 11 May 2015 - 10:37 PM, said:

with 4 ac/2s you would have to expose your self for seven alphas in order to do the same damage as a timberwolf does in one

this is true, however, the mauler also have room for lasers as well. but we aren't even going to talk about those. Those 4 ac2's would fire 6 times over the course of 3 (half a second cooldown for ease of calculation, and reasonable including modules, elite, and 10% quirk) seconds. The TBR's alpha of 56 damage (based on your 7 salvos of ac2) recharges in 2.75 seconds (again including modules, elite, and no neg quirks)

All that considered, I'd still take the AC2's why? heat efficiency, screen shake, heat efficiency, impact explosion causing blind, oh, and heat efficiency.

Edited by Torchfire, 11 May 2015 - 11:06 PM.

[Adamski]

LastKhan, on 11 May 2015 - 10:47 PM, said:

hmm whelp put it into practice. walk the walk not talk the talk i say.

By looking at the Mauler's current concept art the ballistics are relatively nipple heightish. and say you have 4 AC 5s with 2 meds as a build which im sure would fit reasonably. Lets exclude quirks. Peaking lets say a hill and you peak over and fire. Thats 40 dmg out the door if alpha'd im sure you'll have at least a second and a half maybe a second to duck down / torso twist away from incoming fire then really its kinda roughly the same or even better since clan lasers have longer burn times thus leading to more face time. unless you're incompetent in your piloting abilities..

4x AC5 is a 20 point alpha, not a 40 point. Unless you are going to spend the extra 8 tons to upgrade them to UAC5 (which also means no room for an XL).

Edited by Adamski, 11 May 2015 - 10:59 PM.

[LastKhan]

Adamski, on 11 May 2015 - 10:57 PM, said:

4x AC5 is a 20 point alpha, not a 40 point. Unless you are going to spend the extra 8 tons to upgrade them to UAC5.

oops yup i stand corrected.

MechaNagato, on 11 May 2015 - 10:49 PM, said:

poking out my entire torso at 270m or less is not ideal in any mech

So, even the clan mechs like the timber and hellbringer isnt ideal? xD

Edited by LastKhan, 11 May 2015 - 10:59 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Adamski, on 11 May 2015 - 10:57 PM, said:

4x AC5 is a 20 point alpha, not a 40 point. Unless you are going to spend the extra 8 tons to upgrade them to UAC5 (which also means no room for an XL).

4 tons. Uac5 is 9t, ac5 is 8t.

But still, 4x ac5? You move out, fire and hold the trigger, by the time you're moving back into cover your second shot fires.

As much as I love the King Crab, its loooooow, wide arms really impede its ballistics. Mauler looks much higher and tighter.

[Winddancer]

With all the discussion...

How about differentiating a bit more between "house" units, that includes clan units with a permanent contract, as opposed to merc units?

How about giving IS house units their 250 tons, Clan house units their 240 tons, IS merc units 230 tons and Clan merc units 220 tons for a dropdeck or merc units, regardless of employer, 225 tons?

Might shake things up a bit and might reduce the total domination of huge merc conglomerates on CW.

Also, with the current schedule of having to fight for each sector on a planet twice and the 8 hours cease fire schedule many IS groups simply don't play CW anymore. Increase the time between cease fires, and perhaps even make it somewhat random, so that there won't be "sweet times" for certain time zones. Make a fighting period e.g. 24 hours plus x hours, where x varies between 1 to 12 hours. Folks can still plan, but it would shift those sweet times between the time zones and allow all of them to get additional drops in now and then.

[Suzumiya Haruhi no Kerensky]

20 damage alpha isnt appealing on a mech thats much bigger and much slower than a stormcrow

[VXJaeger]

10 tons here and there, no difference except in players imagination.
It's not the tonnage but how you use it.

[Appogee]

I bought an Anansi yesterday for the sole purpose of filling out the final slot in my all-Hero 250t IS drop deck.

Not al all happy, PGI.

Edited by Appogee, 11 May 2015 - 11:40 PM.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

I must admit, when I heard this it made no sense to me or the people I was speaking to.

What is this supposed to solve?

[Jon Gotham]

Baby Cow 12, on 11 May 2015 - 02:41 PM, said:

And they wonder why there is never any CW players

There are few cw players because people that enjoy teamplay, putting a bit of effort in and getting to know other people are in the minority.
It seems the majority are drop and shoot players that treat MWO as a filler game-much like the general mmo playerbase these days. Any game that isn't super simple, throwaway easy it gets cried about.
PGI didn't aim it at their demographic very well, that's all.