407 replies to this topic

[meteorol]

I'll totally just get a wolverin 6k instead of 1 thunderbolt.

Oh no wait i won't because CW isn't worth getting a new mech.

[Torchfire Katayama]

MechaNagato, on 11 May 2015 - 10:37 PM, said:

with 4 ac/2s you would have to expose your self for seven alphas in order to do the same damage as a timberwolf does in one

this is true, however, the mauler also have room for lasers as well. but we aren't even going to talk about those. Those 4 ac2's would fire 6 times over the course of 3 (half a second cooldown for ease of calculation, and reasonable including modules, elite, and 10% quirk) seconds. The TBR's alpha of 56 damage (based on your 7 salvos of ac2) recharges in 2.75 seconds (again including modules, elite, and no neg quirks)

All that considered, I'd still take the AC2's why? heat efficiency, screen shake, heat efficiency, impact explosion causing blind, oh, and heat efficiency.

Edited by Torchfire, 11 May 2015 - 11:06 PM.

[Adamski]

LastKhan, on 11 May 2015 - 10:47 PM, said:

hmm whelp put it into practice. walk the walk not talk the talk i say.

By looking at the Mauler's current concept art the ballistics are relatively nipple heightish. and say you have 4 AC 5s with 2 meds as a build which im sure would fit reasonably. Lets exclude quirks. Peaking lets say a hill and you peak over and fire. Thats 40 dmg out the door if alpha'd im sure you'll have at least a second and a half maybe a second to duck down / torso twist away from incoming fire then really its kinda roughly the same or even better since clan lasers have longer burn times thus leading to more face time. unless you're incompetent in your piloting abilities..

4x AC5 is a 20 point alpha, not a 40 point. Unless you are going to spend the extra 8 tons to upgrade them to UAC5 (which also means no room for an XL).

Edited by Adamski, 11 May 2015 - 10:59 PM.

[LastKhan]

Adamski, on 11 May 2015 - 10:57 PM, said:

4x AC5 is a 20 point alpha, not a 40 point. Unless you are going to spend the extra 8 tons to upgrade them to UAC5.

oops yup i stand corrected.

MechaNagato, on 11 May 2015 - 10:49 PM, said:

poking out my entire torso at 270m or less is not ideal in any mech

So, even the clan mechs like the timber and hellbringer isnt ideal? xD

Edited by LastKhan, 11 May 2015 - 10:59 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Adamski, on 11 May 2015 - 10:57 PM, said:

4x AC5 is a 20 point alpha, not a 40 point. Unless you are going to spend the extra 8 tons to upgrade them to UAC5 (which also means no room for an XL).

4 tons. Uac5 is 9t, ac5 is 8t.

But still, 4x ac5? You move out, fire and hold the trigger, by the time you're moving back into cover your second shot fires.

As much as I love the King Crab, its loooooow, wide arms really impede its ballistics. Mauler looks much higher and tighter.

[Winddancer]

With all the discussion...

How about differentiating a bit more between "house" units, that includes clan units with a permanent contract, as opposed to merc units?

How about giving IS house units their 250 tons, Clan house units their 240 tons, IS merc units 230 tons and Clan merc units 220 tons for a dropdeck or merc units, regardless of employer, 225 tons?

Might shake things up a bit and might reduce the total domination of huge merc conglomerates on CW.

Also, with the current schedule of having to fight for each sector on a planet twice and the 8 hours cease fire schedule many IS groups simply don't play CW anymore. Increase the time between cease fires, and perhaps even make it somewhat random, so that there won't be "sweet times" for certain time zones. Make a fighting period e.g. 24 hours plus x hours, where x varies between 1 to 12 hours. Folks can still plan, but it would shift those sweet times between the time zones and allow all of them to get additional drops in now and then.

[Suzumiya Haruhi no Kerensky]

20 damage alpha isnt appealing on a mech thats much bigger and much slower than a stormcrow

[VXJaeger]

10 tons here and there, no difference except in players imagination.
It's not the tonnage but how you use it.

[Appogee]

I bought an Anansi yesterday for the sole purpose of filling out the final slot in my all-Hero 250t IS drop deck.

Not al all happy, PGI.

Edited by Appogee, 11 May 2015 - 11:40 PM.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

I must admit, when I heard this it made no sense to me or the people I was speaking to.

What is this supposed to solve?

[Jon Gotham]

Baby Cow 12, on 11 May 2015 - 02:41 PM, said:

And they wonder why there is never any CW players

There are few cw players because people that enjoy teamplay, putting a bit of effort in and getting to know other people are in the minority.
It seems the majority are drop and shoot players that treat MWO as a filler game-much like the general mmo playerbase these days. Any game that isn't super simple, throwaway easy it gets cried about.
PGI didn't aim it at their demographic very well, that's all.

[RAHAAON]

Wow... Now, the Inner Sphere is losing it... By the way, the IS mechs... They ARE OP. I'll never forget, how we got a dragon going down to 8%! WTF! THIS is insane!
And another Stalker! This guy got all the way down to 4% (didn't know it was even possible) and took 3 of our guys with him. That was just WTF thing. So, Sphere, try playing with our mechs first, than complain.

[Freebrewer Bmore]

Please realize that the problem that traditional Battle Value has is the same as the problems it's trying to solve: nobody, with the possible exception of God(s) should they exist, is able to intentionally set a particular equilibrium in a hugely complex interactive system like this.

Even if that perfect gameplay balance were somehow miraculously achieved, it would still be upset by the next changing variable (e.g. a new map, or mech, or even just a new way of using one). Balance cannot be defined by static factors like X tons in your deck, or Y BV, or certain sets of quirks, or modified weapon rules, or 1-1-1-1:

Crockdaddy, on 11 May 2015 - 03:34 PM, said:

I am fairly certain we will find the "Meta" in a 1-1-1-1 drop deck just as we find the Meta in anything else.

Instead, the system must be dynamic, with its parameters changing so that it continually brings itself into balance.

Markets do this thru prices. So, howbout we give mechs a price, not an ownership price but rather a selection price, and not in C-Bills or MC. In fact they already have such a price: dropdeck selection cost, denominated in tonnage. The problem is that the tonnage of each mech is fixed and cannot adjust to reflect its actual value relative to other variants, which is only crudely correlated with tonnage. Battle Value as traditionally defined is not as crude but has this same problem; nobody can know the perfect values to assign, and regardless they become obsolete as soon as the gaming environment changes.

Domenoth, on 11 May 2015 - 06:43 PM, said:

People lobbying for BattleValue would probably do themselves a great service if they stopped calling it BattleValue. What they are really after is assigning a scalar number to a Mech and its pilot. [...] the actual scalar number would be incredibly difficult to calculate and that's why we can't have it, rather than saying it wouldn't be any better than a tonnage system because tonnage accounts even less for the very things you mentioned like geometry and hardpoint locations.

Indeed. Here's a fellow who was talking about a totally different and far superior kind of BV who unfortunately used the same term anyway:
http://mwomercs.com/...levalue-system/

He also spent rather too many words explaining what is a pretty simple concept: Use mech usage statistics to give each variant some kind of opportunity cost and allow that cost to adjust as player preferences change. Cost will meet the level of demand, OP mechs will be held in check, and you'll see way more mech diversity in play.

It'd also be a good platform from which to develop CW logistics. Seriously, this could improve so much and yet be trivially easy to implement...

Edited by Freebrewer Bmore, 11 May 2015 - 11:50 PM.

[B0oN]

Sees all the rage from a 10t dropdeck reduction .
Calls technician to mount streaks on as many mechs as possible .
Waits for the impending light rush of titan-class void-shielded IS lights .

*Still isn´t able to figure out what brought this change along, and resolves to not waste time on thinking about it, because PGI*

Edited by Rad Hanzo, 11 May 2015 - 11:50 PM.

[Suzumiya Haruhi no Kerensky]

Appogee, on 11 May 2015 - 11:39 PM, said:

I bought an Anansi...

PGI: looks like our job is done

[Dea79]

This ... is ...insane !!!

[Lily from animove]

Arioch1973, on 11 May 2015 - 02:33 PM, said:

What!!!!!!!!! So just because the clans won, and they still ***** about our mechs being OP, we get reduced drop tonnage??????
Insanity.

This is basically more mae to keep the progress on the map a bit more dynamic. currently CW is ratehr dead, and MS is conquering most planets since they seem to be the only one left unit truly active.

They will mostlikely wait until clanners have more terrain and IS will get tonnage back.

[Suzumiya Haruhi no Kerensky]

im sure the 10 tons were preventing any cw progress and not the new terrible mechanics

[RAHAAON]

Dea79, on 11 May 2015 - 11:57 PM, said:

This ... is ...insane !!!

Did I ever tell you, the definition of insanity?

[Nightshade24]

Daisu Saikoro, on 11 May 2015 - 11:41 PM, said:

I must admit, when I heard this it made no sense to me or the people I was speaking to.

What is this supposed to solve?

This was supposed to solve the problem of imbalance between IS and Clan as well as reverse stupid pro-IS adjustments just because IS was losing earlier to an MM bug / short sight that is now fixed.