587 replies to this topic

[Repasy Cooper]

IraqiWalker, on 11 May 2015 - 09:26 PM, said:

It is an actual thing

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Middleware

I'm well aware of that.

[IraqiWalker]

Repasy, on 11 May 2015 - 09:42 PM, said:

I'm well aware of that.

Ah, I wasn't sure if you posted in mockery, or what. Couldn't tell at the time.

[Repasy Cooper]

IraqiWalker, on 11 May 2015 - 09:44 PM, said:

Ah, I wasn't sure if you posted in mockery, or what. Couldn't tell at the time.

I believe I may have been posting IN mockery TO mockery. Apologies for confusion.

[Telmasa]

I'll just chime in and say I loved the TL/DR part of this announcement - can we get a version of that for all lengthy announcements in the future, pretty please with cream & cherries on top? It's awesome.

[IraqiWalker]

Repasy, on 11 May 2015 - 09:45 PM, said:

I believe I may have been posting IN mockery TO mockery. Apologies for confusion.

\

(YES! I HAVE BEEN DYING TO USE THIS GIF FOR MONTHS NOW! THANK YOU)

[Coordinator Toxic Kerensky]

Sereglach, on 11 May 2015 - 09:26 PM, said:

This . . . just . . . wow. For one, there's plenty of middleware to sniff out cheaters/hackers. For two, RSI (Star Citizen) is another game being built on the CryEngine and they've also stated that there's already a TON of tools to help them prevent cheating, and they plan on squashing it every time it comes up. Therefore, your statements about CryEngine are already debunked from official sources.

I'd really like more information about what forms of hacking they're addressing and how they're doing it, so I'm going to go look this up now.

Sereglach, on 11 May 2015 - 09:26 PM, said:

For two, most cheating doesn't happen in the game engine, it happens with exterior plugins and addons that alter data that's sent through the network traffic; or they directly alter game files. Both of these things are actually pretty easily detectable by the right tools. Network traffic is wrong/off, or the data in files isn't matching up with what the servers say it should be.

This is the biggest eyeroller. Even when I was a kid playing Brood War UMS games with a maphack (which is analogous to walling) I knew this. Aimbotting, much less something much more subtle like walling, doesn't require any data to be transmitted to and from the server that would be subject to verification, much less directly altering game files. Blizzard, a much larger company with a much larger budget, can barely, if at all, catch people maphacking in Starcraft 2.

Sereglach, on 11 May 2015 - 09:26 PM, said:

For three, have you ever sat down and coded something big? I'm not talking a couple hundred or even thousand lines of code. MWO is in something like the millions of lines of code at this point. It's really easy to mix up one small thing and cause unexpected effects. For example, the engine probably handles most, if not all, modifiers to the weapons as multipliers, but yet they stack additively. Therefore, it would have been really easy to have a situation that was meant to be a +(addition, in case you need to be told) be treated as a situation with a *(multiplication, in case you need to be told).

Regardless of the specifics of how the final jam chance is calculated, it either demonstrates a lack of understanding about something very basic in their own code or demonstrates that whoever was working on quirk values can't do basic math. The end results of the UAC jam chance quirks they initially put in the game was very different from the effect they clearly intended. Compare the UAC jam chance quirks before: http://mwomercs.com/...h-notes?id=1132

and after: http://mwomercs.com/...h-notes?id=1159 . Somehow this made it through? This is a very unnecessary discussion and I only brought it up to illustrate that a basic mistake like this, something caused and fixed by changing a few numbers, no new code necessary, made it through. Even if they never made a mistake like this, I don't think that would actually increase the odds of PGI making an effective anticheat.

Sereglach, on 11 May 2015 - 09:26 PM, said:

Lastly, even if something is vulnerable to hacking doesn't mean that there aren't things to address it. That's like saying that there's nothing stopping you from walking off on a White House tour and going into places you're not supposed to go. You actually can just wander away from the tour (like hacking, in this case). After all, it's not even roped off. However, it's really stupid to do so, because before you get to round that next corner there's going to be a lot of people with really big guns waiting to "remedy the situation" and get you back to where you need to be, willing or unwilling.

In this case, because people weren't willing to play the game honestly and do what is expected of them, the situation was "remedied" in a very direct and unwilling fashion for the cheaters.

Perhaps a better analogy would be that you have a disembodied consciousness that can fly around while on the tour that no one else can see, allowing you to see more than the tour operators intended. And also the guards have glaucoma. This is very imperfect, as it does not include any mention as to how your fellow tourists' experience was harmed by your actions, as cheating would certainly do, but it is an analogy.

Edited by Coordinator Aigis Kurita, 11 May 2015 - 10:17 PM.

[The Droid]

Sereglach, on 11 May 2015 - 09:26 PM, said:

This . . . just . . . wow. For one, there's plenty of middleware to sniff out cheaters/hackers. For two, RSI (Star Citizen) is another game being built on the CryEngine and they've also stated that there's already a TON of tools to help them prevent cheating, and they plan on squashing it every time it comes up. Therefore, your statements about CryEngine are already debunked from official sources.

For two, most cheating doesn't happen in the game engine, it happens with exterior plugins and addons that alter data that's sent through the network traffic; or they directly alter game files. Both of these things are actually pretty easily detectable by the right tools. Network traffic is wrong/off, or the data in files isn't matching up with what the servers say it should be.

For three, have you ever sat down and coded something big? I'm not talking a couple hundred or even thousand lines of code. MWO is in something like the millions of lines of code at this point. It's really easy to mix up one small thing and cause unexpected effects. For example, the engine probably handles most, if not all, modifiers to the weapons as multipliers, but yet they stack additively. Therefore, it would have been really easy to have a situation that was meant to be a +(addition, in case you need to be told) be treated as a situation with a *(multiplication, in case you need to be told).

Lastly, even if something is vulnerable to hacking doesn't mean that there aren't things to address it. That's like saying that there's nothing stopping you from walking off on a White House tour and going into places you're not supposed to go. You actually can just wander away from the tour (like hacking, in this case). After all, it's not even roped off. However, it's really stupid to do so, because before you get to round that next corner there's going to be a lot of people with really big guns waiting to "remedy the situation" and get you back to where you need to be, willing or unwilling.

In this case, because people weren't willing to play the game honestly and do what is expected of them, the situation was "remedied" in a very direct and unwilling fashion for the cheaters.

[Nacon]

So... Should I stop using AHK scripts? (AutoHotKey)

I'm asking this because I do have a few scripts running in my background, but they don't do anything for MWO. They're not even used for any games. They control my music and my LED light bulbs. I don't want to get banned on false detection.

EDIT: Of course, I'm still very much against cheaters. Don't get me wrong.

Edited by Nacon, 11 May 2015 - 10:09 PM.

[Repasy Cooper]

Coordinator Aigis Kurita, on 11 May 2015 - 09:55 PM, said:

I'd really like more information about what forms of hacking they're addressing and how they're doing it, so I'm going to go look this up now.

They are addressing all forms of hacking by banning the hackers. DUH?

Dear Coordinator, are you having difficulty coordinating those thought patterns of yours?

[TopRay]

[color=#959595]Can you please outline (and be explicit) how you were able to detect the third party tools in question?[/color][color=#959595]

Repasy, on 11 May 2015 - 08:06 PM, said:

That is a HIGHLY SUSPICIOUS request, in case you didn't realize...

[/color]

Unless i am mistaken it is also an acknowledgment that indeed third party tools were indeed used an detected by the use of "tools in question".

[An Anime Princess]

hey guys, top competitive player here, i regularly hack and boot up an incredibly powerful cheating tool to make sure my favourite kancolle is automatically entered into allchat at the start of every match.

scared?

[Repasy Cooper]

An Anime Princess, on 11 May 2015 - 10:14 PM, said:

hey guys, top competitive player here, i regularly hack and boot up an incredibly powerful cheating tool to make sure my favourite kancolle is automatically entered into allchat at the start of every match.

scared?

That... is the laziest thing I've heard someone do today...

TopRay, on 11 May 2015 - 10:12 PM, said:

[color=#959595]Can you please outline (and be explicit) how you were able to detect the third party tools in question?[/color]




Unless i am mistaken it is also an acknowledgment that indeed third party tools were indeed used an detected by the use of "tools in question".

Apologies, but I'm unclear as to what you are trying to say, could you elaborate?

Edited by Repasy, 11 May 2015 - 10:18 PM.

[GateheaD]

Nacon, on 11 May 2015 - 10:08 PM, said:

So... Should I stop using AHK scripts? (AutoHotKey)

I'm asking this because I do have a few scripts running in my background, but they don't do anything for MWO. They're not even used for any games. They control my music and my LED light bulbs. I don't want to get banned on false detection.

EDIT: Of course, I'm still very much against cheaters. Don't get me wrong.

You have nothing to fear unless the reddit army starts calling you a tranny and trying to dox you, then you'll be banned.

[Whatzituyah]

TopRay, on 11 May 2015 - 10:12 PM, said:

[color=#959595]Can you please outline (and be explicit) how you were able to detect the third party tools in question?[/color]




Unless i am mistaken it is also an acknowledgment that indeed third party tools were indeed used an detected by the use of "tools in question".

Even if so they can't answer that because that would reveal their methods of finding out someone hacked you remember "a magician never reveal his secrets" same goes for this situation except its not a magician.

[Suzumiya Haruhi no Kerensky]

An Anime Princess, on 11 May 2015 - 10:14 PM, said:

hey guys, top competitive player here, i regularly hack and boot up an incredibly powerful cheating tool to make sure my favourite kancolle is automatically entered into allchat at the start of every match.

scared?

who is it

[Harvey Batchall Kerensky at Law]

It's so weird that only one player in the entire playerbase is banned and publically labelled a cheater after these super advanced cheat detection tools have been implemented, and not because a completely embarassing witchunt erupted

so weird

[Coordinator Toxic Kerensky]

Repasy, on 11 May 2015 - 10:11 PM, said:

They are addressing all forms of hacking by banning the hackers. DUH?

Dear Coordinator, are you having difficulty coordinating those thought patterns of yours?

Sorry, I forgot that all types of hacks at all competence levels of implementation, from attempting to change your money in an online game with a memory editor (which wouldn't even work) up, were equally easy to detect.

Edited by Coordinator Aigis Kurita, 11 May 2015 - 10:20 PM.

[Coordinator Toxic Kerensky]

Nacon, on 11 May 2015 - 10:08 PM, said:

So... Should I stop using AHK scripts? (AutoHotKey)

I'm asking this because I do have a few scripts running in my background, but they don't do anything for MWO. They're not even used for any games. They control my music and my LED light bulbs. I don't want to get banned on false detection.

EDIT: Of course, I'm still very much against cheaters. Don't get me wrong.

Practically speaking, this is extreme paranoia. Unless this is a joke post, which I am more and more inclined to believe it is as time goes on before I hit post.

[Kiiyor]

Sereglach, on 11 May 2015 - 09:26 PM, said:

For three, have you ever sat down and coded something big? I'm not talking a couple hundred or even thousand lines of code. MWO is in something like the millions of lines of code at this point. It's really easy to mix up one small thing and cause unexpected effects.

ARGH, FLASHBACK

And not just that, but coding something big that is constantly evolving. Oh sweet jesus, my hands used to tremble before I started compiling, thinking about all the crap that could go wrong, and how much re-factoring people would throw at me because I made the tragic mistake of being good at it.

SHOTGUN SURGERY.

The phrases "ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS ________" or "THEY SIMPLY HAVE TO PROGRAM ________" or my personal favourite "HOW HARD CAN IT BE" when paired with any statement about coding on these forum pages always makes me chuckle.

[Modo44]

Whatzituyah, on 11 May 2015 - 10:16 PM, said:

Even if so they can't answer that because that would reveal their methods of finding out someone hacked you remember "a magician never reveal his secrets" same goes for this situation except its not a magician.

Security by obscurity isn't.