13 replies to this topic

[MW222]

Feed back PLEASE, I don't think I am getting full use of equipped Mods.
I'm running the following.

AS7-S (L)


No quicks affecting Sensors or LRMs or Targeting.

Adv Sensor Range II - Boosts sensor range by + 25.00%.

Adv Target Decay - Increases the amount of time a Mech is track-able when it leaves line of sight to + 2.75/3.50 seconds.

LRM 10 Range 5 - +10.00% Range.

Radar Deprivation - Causes loss of lock when moving out of line of sight.

Command Console - Zoom distance: +5.25%, Sensor range: +6.00%, Time to gather target info: -20.50%

Beagle Active probe. - + 25.00% increased sensor range, - 25.00% decreased target info acquisition time, Allows targeting of unpowered Mechs within 120M.

It counters 1 ECM within the range of 360M. It works the same way as an ECM in counter mode.

Displayed LRM range is 1100 M. Is this Max Range or Opium range?

If basic sensor range is 800M* with the mods I have running my sensor range should be 1248M (+/-). Between the Beagle BAP and the Command Console CC my Target Acquisition should be + 45.50% faster. I'm do NOT think I am seeing it. I am also getting back shot a lot. Why am I not seeing those Mech?

I should be able not only to get more and faster locks but I should also be reading what cockpit items the other mech is carrying (just kidding).

*I have also seen basic sensor range reported as 750M – 900M.

Edited by MW222, 11 May 2015 - 08:55 PM.

[XtremWarrior]

Man, you really wanted to go on the Electronic Warfare part!

1 LRM range is always both Optimal and Max. They won't do anything past this range.

2 About the time to get your Target Aquisition, i can't tell. But it's already quite long without any module or BAP.

3 Sensors only work in your front arc, nothing can tell you if someone is sneaking on your back (apart from a friend):
- Seismic will make a little red dot appear on your radar once enemy is in range (360m for the upgraded version IIRC) but will not make this foe targetable.
- 360° Target Retention will let you keep track of the enemy if you target it before it goes behind you (Advanced Target Decay is usually a better choice though).

Hope i helped a bit.

Also: why writing in such a little text size???

Edited by XtremWarrior, 12 May 2015 - 12:30 AM.

[MW222]

Sorry copied and pasted from WP.

Thanks for the reply. I do and have run Seismic -- but you mean that the BAP will give no notification at all? Regarding the TA it used to be much faster, now it seems I can't buy a lock. I should be getting a lock almost 50% faster then any other non like equipped mech and I feel it's just not there.

[Vandul]

In theory, but things like enemy ECM and terrain can affect your TAT (Target Acquisition Time).

[Lugh]

Vandul, on 12 May 2015 - 09:19 AM, said:

In theory, but things like enemy ECM and terrain can affect your TAT (Target Acquisition Time).

Target Interogation Time (friendly units targeting to help you target) will help your TAT.

Be sure you T.I.T so LRM users get their TAT

Edited by Lugh, 12 May 2015 - 11:17 AM.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

MW222, on 11 May 2015 - 08:48 PM, said:

Adv Sensor Range II - Boosts sensor range by + 25.00%.

This increases your sensor range from 800m to 1000m.

MW222, on 11 May 2015 - 08:48 PM, said:

Adv Target Decay - Increases the amount of time a Mech is track-able when it leaves line of sight to + 2.75/3.50 seconds.

Please note that this effect is completely overcome by an enemy mounting the Radar Deprivation module, which eliminates the continued tracking after LOS is broken.

MW222, on 11 May 2015 - 08:48 PM, said:

LRM 10 Range 5 - +10.00% Range.

This increases the range at which LRMs explode after not hitting anything from 1000m to 1100m.

MW222, on 11 May 2015 - 08:48 PM, said:

Radar Deprivation - Causes loss of lock when moving out of line of sight.

This does nothing to affect your own sensors, only the sensors of those who lock you as a target.

MW222, on 11 May 2015 - 08:48 PM, said:

Command Console - Zoom distance: +5.25%, Sensor range: +6.00%, Time to gather target info: -20.50%

This further increases your sensor range from 1000m to 1048m (.06 (increase) times 800 (base value) is 48). Reduces your target info gathering time by 20.5%. Has no effect on missile lock time, only on ability to get a damage paperdoll and weapons loadout on a target-locked enemy.

MW222, on 11 May 2015 - 08:48 PM, said:

Beagle Active probe. - + 25.00% increased sensor range, - 25.00% decreased target info acquisition time, Allows targeting of unpowered Mechs within 120M.

An Active Probe also allows you to lock one target within 200m (If I recall the range correctly- I think it used to be 180m, though it might also be 280m) through a single layer of ECM. It does not, however, cut through ECM in the same way an ECM set to 'Counter' does. Allies can only piggyback off of your lock, the enemy ECM is not in any way, shape, or form shut down. Additionally, this target you have locked has the weapons lock time reduced to the exact same degree that ECM increases that weapons lock time.

This increases your sensor range again from 1048m to 1248m. Your target info gathering time is now 54.5% of its normal value. The Sensor Range module increases the range at which you can lock one target through a single layer of ECM from 200m to 250m (again, assuming I recall the base range on this function correctly). It also increases the range at which you can detect and lock onto shut down 'mechs from 120m to 150m.

MW222, on 11 May 2015 - 08:48 PM, said:

It counters 1 ECM within the range of 360M. It works the same way as an ECM in counter mode.

This is incorrect.

MW222, on 11 May 2015 - 08:48 PM, said:

Displayed LRM range is 1100 M. Is this Max Range or Opium range?

I assume you mean 'optimum'. In which case, the answer is both. An LRM will travel 1000m from the point of launch before exploding if it doesn't hit anything. Your LRM range increase improves this to 1100m.

MW222, on 11 May 2015 - 08:48 PM, said:

If basic sensor range is 800M* with the mods I have running my sensor range should be 1248M (+/-). Between the Beagle BAP and the Command Console CC my Target Acquisition should be + 45.50% faster. I'm do NOT think I am seeing it. I am also getting back shot a lot. Why am I not seeing those Mech?

Be aware that target info gathering is not the same thing as locking on missiles- TIG is about seeing the paperdoll and weapons list. Locking on missiles is about locking on weapons to a target where you have already locked your sensors onto it.

MW222, on 11 May 2015 - 08:48 PM, said:

I should be able not only to get more and faster locks but I should also be reading what cockpit items the other mech is carrying (just kidding).

Incorrect. The only piece of equipment that is affecting your target locking is your Probe, and that only within that 150m range- where your LRMs are useless.


Largely, you are the victim of a lack of clarity and some misunderstanding here.

Edited by Quickdraw Crobat, 12 May 2015 - 11:32 AM.

[Ralgas]

The only 3 things that effectively speed up actual lrm locks are artemis in los and tag. Bap works situationally and then only to block an ecm trying to blind you if theres only 1 in range, otherwise it's limited blocking range makes it pointless unless you're running clan lrms (which the atlas cant)

[LordMelvin]

Quickdraw Crobat, on 12 May 2015 - 11:29 AM, said:

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This increases your sensor range from 800m to 1000m.

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Please note that this effect is completely overcome by an enemy mounting the Radar Deprivation module, which eliminates the continued tracking after LOS is broken.

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This increases the range at which LRMs explode after not hitting anything from 1000m to 1100m.

[/size][/font]

This does nothing to affect your own sensors, only the sensors of those who lock you as a target.


This further increases your sensor range from 1000m to 1048m (.06 (increase) times 800 (base value) is 48). Reduces your target info gathering time by 20.5%. Has no effect on missile lock time, only on ability to get a damage paperdoll and weapons loadout on a target-locked enemy.



An Active Probe also allows you to lock one target within 200m (If I recall the range correctly- I think it used to be 180m, though it might also be 280m) through a single layer of ECM. It does not, however, cut through ECM in the same way an ECM set to 'Counter' does. Allies can only piggyback off of your lock, the enemy ECM is not in any way, shape, or form shut down. Additionally, this target you have locked has the weapons lock time reduced to the exact same degree that ECM increases that weapons lock time.

This increases your sensor range again from 1048m to 1248m. Your target info gathering time is now 54.5% of its normal value. The Sensor Range module increases the range at which you can lock one target through a single layer of ECM from 200m to 250m (again, assuming I recall the base range on this function correctly). It also increases the range at which you can detect and lock onto shut down 'mechs from 120m to 150m.


This is incorrect.

[/size][/font]
I assume you mean 'optimum'. In which case, the answer is both. An LRM will travel 1000m from the point of launch before exploding if it doesn't hit anything. Your LRM range increase improves this to 1100m.


Be aware that target info gathering is not the same thing as locking on missiles- TIG is about seeing the paperdoll and weapons list. Locking on missiles is about locking on weapons to a target where you have already locked your sensors onto it.



Incorrect. The only piece of equipment that is affecting your target locking is your Probe, and that only within that 150m range- where your LRMs are useless.


Largely, you are the victim of a lack of clarity and some misunderstanding here.

This is a massively important post.

[Khobai]

Another thing worth mentioning is your detailed target info speed is based on your distance to the target:

At < 100m, full target info is gathered in 1 second.
At < 500m, full target info is gathered in 3 seconds.
At > 500m, full target info is gathered in 5 seconds.


With 45.50% faster detailed target info speed it would be:

At < 100m, full target info is gathered in 0.545 second.
At < 500m, full target info is gathered in 1.635 seconds.
At > 500m, full target info is gathered in 2.725 seconds.

Edited by Khobai, 12 May 2015 - 12:45 PM.

[Roadkill]

Quickdraw Crobat, on 12 May 2015 - 11:29 AM, said:

Please note that this effect is completely overcome by an enemy mounting the Radar Deprivation module, which eliminates the continued tracking after LOS is broken

This is misleading.

Radar Deprivation eliminates the base tracking after LOS is broken. It has no effect on the extended tracking provided by Advanced Target Decay. However those two amounts of time are almost the same (1.5 seconds and 2.0 seconds respectively, IIRC), so the net effect is that Radar Deprivation appears to cancel Advanced Target Decay. It is important to clarify, though, that you do still retain the ability to track targets out of LOS for a short time if you're using Advanced Target Decay, it's just that the amount of time is reduced (roughly halved).

[Khobai]

Quote

Radar Deprivation eliminates the base tracking after LOS is broken. It has no effect on the extended tracking provided by Advanced Target Decay.

wrong. radar deprivation completely 100% hard counters advanced target decay module.


you have nothing and enemy has nothing = lock decays after 2s
you have advanced target decay, enemy has nothing = lock decays after 3.5s

you have nothing and enemy had radar dep = lock decays after 0s (instantly)
you having advanced target decay, enemy had radar dep = lock decays after 0s (instantly)


The way you described it is the way it should work. Radar deprivation should only soft counter advanced target decay, rather than hard counter it, but sadly thats not the case.

if you dont believe me you can test it easily by creating a custom game with a friend that has radar deprivation installed. youll see that what im saying is true.

Edited by Khobai, 13 May 2015 - 06:55 AM.

[Roadkill]

Khobai, on 13 May 2015 - 06:45 AM, said:

wrong. radar deprivation completely 100% hard counters advanced target decay module.


you have nothing and enemy has nothing = lock decays after 2s
you have advanced target decay, enemy has nothing = lock decays after 3.5s

you have nothing and enemy had radar dep = lock decays after 0s (instantly)
you having advanced target decay, enemy had radar dep = lock decays after 0s (instantly)


The way you described it is the way it should work. Radar deprivation should only soft counter advanced target decay, rather than hard counter it, but sadly thats not the case.

if you dont believe me you can test it easily by creating a custom game with a friend that has radar deprivation installed. youll see that what im saying is true.

The bolded part isn't true. If I have advanced target decay and my enemy has radar derp, my missiles will continue to track for 1.5 seconds after the target leaves LOS. I make use of this all the time as my main c-bill farming ride is a Stormcrow with 4 x CLRM-5.

I notice a huge difference when I forget to equip my Advanced Target Decay module, and the most noticeable part is that I instantly lose tracking on some Mechs in those games.

[Almond Brown]

Another point of clarity. Seismic Sensor only provides enemy locations (red blur blob on mini) when standing quite still (X key works best)

[MW222]

Thank you guys for the feed back. Very informative and helpful.