65 replies to this topic

[Roadkill]

Panther - likely trash tier unless it has insane quirks, and even then I'm doubtful. Maybe if it gets -50% AC/2 heat generation? PGI could use it as a test bed to experiment with AC/2 heat reduction to work on balancing the weapon.

Enforcer - I don't use JJ, so that lack doesn't bother me. I do like the idea of an AC/20 with 4 ML so I suspect this will be my favorite Enforcer.

Grasshopper - will totally depend on the hardpoint placement, but even if they're all high on the torso the Grasshopper is pretty meh. (Remember - I don't use JJ, so for me the GH is just another hill humper.)

Zeus - people keep saying this is the best of both worlds, but I don't see how you can make use of it. It just doesn't have the payload to use 3M, 3E, and 1B. I don't consider an AC/2 to be proper use of 1B. I don't see this Zeus adding anything because the other "specialist" variants all do something better. Generalist variants typically aren't all that great, and that's what this variant is.

So I'm looking at one improvement (Enforcer), one possibly a little better (Grasshopper), one probably a little worse (Zeus), and one trash (Panther).

Meh. Insufficiently irresistible.

[Soul Tribunal]

Roadkill, on 13 May 2015 - 08:52 AM, said:

Panther - likely trash tier unless it has insane quirks, and even then I'm doubtful. Maybe if it gets -50% AC/2 heat generation? PGI could use it as a test bed to experiment with AC/2 heat reduction to work on balancing the weapon.

Enforcer - I don't use JJ, so that lack doesn't bother me. I do like the idea of an AC/20 with 4 ML so I suspect this will be my favorite Enforcer.

Grasshopper - will totally depend on the hardpoint placement, but even if they're all high on the torso the Grasshopper is pretty meh. (Remember - I don't use JJ, so for me the GH is just another hill humper.)

Zeus - people keep saying this is the best of both worlds, but I don't see how you can make use of it. It just doesn't have the payload to use 3M, 3E, and 1B. I don't consider an AC/2 to be proper use of 1B. I don't see this Zeus adding anything because the other "specialist" variants all do something better. Generalist variants typically aren't all that great, and that's what this variant is.

So I'm looking at one improvement (Enforcer), one possibly a little better (Grasshopper), one probably a little worse (Zeus), and one trash (Panther).

Meh. Insufficiently irresistible.

Zeus you can do some fun stuff with the new Variant. And use all HP's (if I did my Maths Correctly).

1 x AC10, 3 x MPL's, 3 x SRM4 - Leaves 10.5 tons for heatsinks and ammo with an XL390 Engine (Endo Steel Used).
Or you can sacrifice a little ammo and go LBX10 for the heck of it.

I think it will be just fine.

-ST

[Ovion]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 May 2015 - 05:54 PM, said:

A Ballistic Panther?
Non jumping, AC20 packing Enforcer?
Another LaserVomit Grasshopper?
and
A Zeus with a Ballistic AND multi-missile hardpoints?


http://mwomercs.com/...resistance-deal
Thoughts?

Not enough to push me to pay RL money.

I'll buy that panther when it's available for C-Bills though.

[Roadkill]

Soul Tribunal, on 13 May 2015 - 09:09 AM, said:

Zeus you can do some fun stuff with the new Variant. And use all HP's (if I did my Maths Correctly).

1 x AC10, 3 x MPL's, 3 x SRM4 - Leaves 10.5 tons for heatsinks and ammo with an XL390 Engine (Endo Steel Used).
Or you can sacrifice a little ammo and go LBX10 for the heck of it.

I think it will be just fine.

Sure, but is that really an improvement over 3 x ASRM4 + 3 x LPL with an XL350? That's one of the builds I run on my 6T. 9 kph slower, but with tighter missile spread and a bigger alpha at more useful range. Heat on either build isn't a concern.

[Apnu]

Matthew Ace, on 12 May 2015 - 06:02 PM, said:

I don't have a good opinion about the AC20 Enforcer... not taking into account quirks, what can the Wang do that this Enforcer can't, besides Zombie?

Except that the Enforcer will go for c-bills in 3 months and then the freebies can do the Wang w/out the cost.

[Soul Tribunal]

Roadkill, on 13 May 2015 - 09:30 AM, said:

Sure, but is that really an improvement over 3 x ASRM4 + 3 x LPL with an XL350? That's one of the builds I run on my 6T. 9 kph slower, but with tighter missile spread and a bigger alpha at more useful range. Heat on either build isn't a concern.

Depends entirely on your play style. If you do good with your 6T, thats great. If it works, no need to fix it.
But for me, it allows me to do odd combinations, like a close range slugger with the MPL's, the SRM4's and an LBX10.
Which, works for me. So I don't see it as a downgrade on the chassis one bit.

And because turning rate and such are tied to engine size the faster I can make this mech twist the better. Its not just speed you lose downgrading the engine.

-ST

[MeiSooHaityu]

Roadkill, on 13 May 2015 - 08:52 AM, said:

Panther - likely trash tier unless it has insane quirks, and even then I'm doubtful. Maybe if it gets -50% AC/2 heat generation? PGI could use it as a test bed to experiment with AC/2 heat reduction to work on balancing the weapon.

I don't think any amount of Ballistic quirks will mean much.

The new Panther is basically a Vindicator 1X in a smaller package. It sacrifices useful energy or missile hard points for useless ballistic hard points (just like the 1X).

If the new Panther had 3 missile and 1 ballistic, it might not be bad. If it had 1 Energy, 2 missile, and 1 Ballistic, it might have been interesting.

As it stands, 2 ballistic hard points is really only good for 2 MGs. You could mount 1 A/C2 or 1 A/C5, but you only need 1 hard point for that, not 2.

This new Panther variant would be a good candidate for a STD engine 2SRM4 Zombie mech and that's about it. You just hope it gets Huggin-like quirks for the SRM4s.

[Joseph Mallan]

A ballistic Panther is just wrong.

[TheArisen]

Yo dawg I heard you like reinforcements, so I put reinforcements in yo reinforcements.

Edited by TheArisen, 13 May 2015 - 11:04 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

Joseph Mallan, on 13 May 2015 - 10:18 AM, said:

A ballistic Panther is just wrong.

[TheArisen]

I always reinforce my reinforcing reinforced reinforcements...

[MischiefSC]

Is mech packs - so much mediocrity that even the quirks were mediocre. Clan mech packs tend to be game changing every time. Compare Cauldron Born with the Fat Knight. Crab vs Shadow Cat. So is mech packs need a lot of bribery and all that matters is the quirks. Nobody is going "I'll only look at the Cauldron Born if the quirks are good".

Effing sing hard point missile quirks and ams quirks. Eff you so much on that one PGI.

[TheArisen]

MischiefSC, on 13 May 2015 - 11:47 AM, said:

Is mech packs - so much mediocrity that even the quirks were mediocre. Clan mech packs tend to be game changing every time. Compare Cauldron Born with the Fat Knight. Crab vs Shadow Cat. So is mech packs need a lot of bribery and all that matters is the quirks. Nobody is going "I'll only look at the Cauldron Born if the quirks are good".

Effing sing hard point missile quirks and ams quirks. Eff you so much on that one PGI.

That's because there are waaaaay more IS mechs. There are still quite a few good ones though.

[Nathan Foxbane]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 May 2015 - 04:48 AM, said:

this would be a grand idea.
So if One got Zeus pack and Wolfhound, one gets the bonus Panther. Grasshopper plus Crab gets the Enforcer. I do like that. You should PM or Tweet it to Russ.

Russ has been PM'd. I do not use twitter.

Edited by Nathan Foxbane, 13 May 2015 - 12:00 PM.

[Roadkill]

Soul Tribunal, on 13 May 2015 - 10:04 AM, said:

But for me, it allows me to do odd combinations, like a close range slugger with the MPL's, the SRM4's and an LBX10.

I guess what I'm getting at is that even for a close range slugger, 3 LPL is better than 3 MPL and an AC/10, nevermind an LBX-10.

Quote

And because turning rate and such are tied to engine size the faster I can make this mech twist the better. Its not just speed you lose downgrading the engine.

Understood, and a fair point. But I can get that speed back by using LL instead of LPL, and I'll still have similar firepower with better range.

There just isn't a niche for the new Zeus. Anything it can do one of the other variants can do at least as well and probably better. Unless there's a Gauss + multiple LRM build out there...

[Soul Tribunal]

Roadkill, on 13 May 2015 - 12:15 PM, said:

I guess what I'm getting at is that even for a close range slugger, 3 LPL is better than 3 MPL and an AC/10, nevermind an LBX-10.


Understood, and a fair point. But I can get that speed back by using LL instead of LPL, and I'll still have similar firepower with better range.

There just isn't a niche for the new Zeus. Anything it can do one of the other variants can do at least as well and probably better. Unless there's a Gauss + multiple LRM build out there...

I guess that just shows the build diversity on what you and I consider to be our best case ideas.
For me, its a Niche because I get the Missile HP's and a Ballistic combined, on a much more durable chassis than my Victors.

Nothing wrong with the way you like doing it, I just didn't feel it was right to call it under par in your original post. I think it will find its place.
And hey, for me, its a free Chassis so its a win win no matter what I do.

-ST

[MischiefSC]

TheArisen, on 13 May 2015 - 11:56 AM, said:

That's because there are waaaaay more IS mechs. There are still quite a few good ones though.

Only because of quirks. Remove all quirks what are some exceptional is mechs?

You can't even really compare a 6xll Stalker 4n with a Timber Wolf as the TW has a slew of options and the 4n has 1.

This isn't about "clans OP" or the like. It's about Clan mechs having interesting mechs with or without quirks that tend to hit the ground "best in class" while we have 3 is mech packs, 12 mechs with 40 total variants and we have....

2 shadow hawk variants that were good. Everything else was at best "meh".

Suppose you're looking at wave 3 clan pack but all you'd gotten so far was 2 stormcrow variants (with only 1 good omnipod each) and every other mech was a Summoner, adder or nova? Then the IS gets the Bushwhacker, Marauder and Annihilator all in one package, plus a MASC light?

[zagibu]

Apnu, on 13 May 2015 - 09:44 AM, said:

Except that the Enforcer will go for c-bills in 3 months and then the freebies can do the Wang w/out the cost.

Something like it, but not quite the same. It might outclass the CN9-AH, though.

[C E Dwyer]

I don't see anything worthwhile about any of them

Panther with ballistics o.O

Enforcer that can't jump ewww

a 5n with no arm weapons but can hill hump

and a Zeus that can ac20 and have ..more than one srm launcher

These would not entice me to get resistance 2 if I wasn't already getting it

They will just be mechs that gather dust once they are mastered

[Apnu]

zagibu, on 13 May 2015 - 12:57 PM, said:

Something like it, but not quite the same. It might outclass the CN9-AH, though.

Possible. 3xSRM4 = 24 point hit VS 4xML = 20 point hit? Or 4xMPL = 24 point hit.

Comes down to heat scale and ammo dependance, IMO. ENF-4P riding the heat wave, or the CN9-AH is cooler, but ammo dependant.