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Gender Equality In The Battletech Universe


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#101 Faith McCarron

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Posted 19 May 2015 - 06:54 AM

The Heavy Metal was supposed to be the mech of Rhonda Snord.

The pilot of the Pretty Baby was a female.

I believe the IV-four had a female pilot as well.

As for the community manager thing, there might be some of what you say, but I think a lot of it has to do with personality. Tina is a soft-spoken little mouse. Compare that to Garth, who could be pretty snarky, or the guy that banned a whole bunch of people. It's kind of natural to be nicer to one than the other. Plus, they have been a lot more engaged under Tina as well.

Edited by Faith McCarron, 19 May 2015 - 06:56 AM.


#102 Strum Wealh

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Posted 19 May 2015 - 08:44 AM

View Postrolly, on 19 May 2015 - 06:46 AM, said:

do any of the Hero mechs actually relate to a female Mechwarrior?

Pretty Baby (Danielle Peterson) - AFFS (Chisholm's Raiders)
Heavy Metal (Rhonda Snord) - Merc (Snord's Irregulars)
Jester (Leigh Voss) - (unknown affiliation)
Ember (Portia Ryan) - Pirate (Scourge Company, Tortuga Dominion)
IV-Four (Ivy Upsalom) - Pirate (Redjack Ryan's pirate 'Mech force)
Sparky (Elle Bennett) - LCAF (5th Donegal Guards)
Pirates' Bane (Lori Kalmar-Carlyle) - Merc (Gray Death Legion)

Other than Leigh Voss, all of the female Hero 'Mech pilots are from BattleTech canon.

#103 ShinobiHunter

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Posted 19 May 2015 - 07:27 PM

Not to be ignorant, but what is the purpose here? I mean, the books are written and unfortunately none of us can go back and change them now. I haven't read any of them, so I'm completely unaware of the content of them.

Is there some other sort of change you're trying to enact here? Just curious ;)

And for the record, I'm not a "He-man woman hater". I have too many sisters for that nonsense. :P

#104 Sparks Murphey

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Posted 19 May 2015 - 08:10 PM

View PostShinobiHunter, on 19 May 2015 - 07:27 PM, said:

Not to be ignorant, but what is the purpose here? I mean, the books are written and unfortunately none of us can go back and change them now. I haven't read any of them, so I'm completely unaware of the content of them.

Is there some other sort of change you're trying to enact here? Just curious ;)

And for the record, I'm not a "He-man woman hater". I have too many sisters for that nonsense. :P

Well, one of the things about forums is they are often used for discussing things, rather than changing things. I know it's a subtle distinction, as discussion does often lead to change, and certainly if you looked at any of the whining going on in the patch feedback and general discussion threads you'd think that posting a thread is a mandate for immediate change. Despite that, no. This is a thread about where you can find strong female characters in the BT universe, or if you feel you can't, why that might be.

So far, the thread has discovered quite a number of female characters who have been argued to be strong. Strum Wealh's post, immediately preceding yours, notes 6 canon female BattleTech characters who have their own hero 'Mechs in MWO, and a seventh who isn't canon but also has a hero 'Mech.

I hope that clears things up for you.

#105 Bill Bullet

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Posted 19 May 2015 - 09:46 PM

Keeping with the original question at the start of thread, I'd say Faith's complaint is pretty on point. While BattleTech DOES have good female protagonists (Arianne Winston, Joanna, Tara Bishop) I think the main issue is that the female characters people think of when asked to name a strong female character are not actually portrayed as such, see the original post.

The BT universe is pretty good at putting women in positions of power (as politicians or officers) and stating it simply as matter of fact, the problem is when it delves into those characters specifically: See Cassie Suthorn of Camancho's Caballeros, a supposed hard-ass who cries or has to stop herself from crying every five minutes.

As for those who are complaining about this discussion being had and the "keep your feminism out of my game" arguments. This is a discussion about the BattleTech LORE not the MWO franchise, calm down and keep it civil.

#106 Peiper

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 02:07 AM

Interesting thread. I'm going to have to agree with some of the things said here:

Yes, female characters are shallow. Yes, male characters are shallow!

Clanner females tend to be tougher, which seems to be the closest we get to calling them 'strong' characters. But note, there is no question of children among the clans. Sibkin and friends often comfort each other with sex: f###buddies are the rule in clan society and romantic love deviant behavior, which brings me to my next point.

The target audience includes teenagers, and in America, sex is a taboo subject, and the complex interpersonal relationships of adults are uninteresting to kids. That being said...

Most of the main characters are mechwarriors, elite soldiers who dedicate their lives to their craft. Not to belittle real life soldiers, but some of the behavior among young soldiers would have more square readers having strokes in their armchairs. The behavior of young men (and women) away from their parents, with a little cash in their pockets, is often 'inappropriate' for younger audiences, who the gaming companies want to hook with their games. Also, think of the typical career grunt; well maybe the stereotypical one. Alcoholic and/or adrenaline junky. No stereotypes there, eh? How many times do they describe a mechwarrior having to take a dump after being cooped up in a sweaty cockpit for hours? You see my point? Even today when we read stories about tankers in war, they rarely talk about the poop bucket hanging off the back of the tank. People want to hear about the tank stalking another tank, roaring through a line of ineffectual AT guns, or something like that.

The point of the novels is to tell the story of battlemech combat. Every action taken by a character in the story eventually leads to one or more chapters of shrieking metal monsters pummeling each other into scrap. And, truthfully, that is WHY I read the novels. As an adult, I do like the character development, and often wish to know more about characters. HOWEVER, I admit that I can get anxious while reading some of the more melodramatic Battletech books (yes, they exist: like "Maliciious Intent"- which did turn out pretty good in the end!). And I'm quite a critic of how those battle scenes are written, too! I pull out my TRO's or pull up Sarna.net and review the mechs fighting in the battle to get a better picture. I get ticked off when I read one and two shot kills, because in the Battletech game those are rare. Every weapon melting armor in streams. I get ticked when I hear of mechs doing acrobatics (yes, there's a dark age book with a hatchetman doing cartwheels if I recall) or when mechs are sexualized (Bannson's Jupiter pinning down Tara Campbell's Pack Hunter, obviously overpowering the light mech and not letting her go until he got what he wanted out of her). Or how about 'Ruins of Power' where only one Battlemech in the whole story is in a museum!

I think the number one thing to think about when talking about stereotype anything in Battletech books is to remember that really, the stories, at best, are space opera stories. Star Wars is a space opera. They're PULP Sci-Fi. Not even deep philosophical sci-fi like some cyberpunk or super technically perfect sci-fi like the space soap opera of Star Trek. Battletech fans, I'm going to guess, when they look back at Star Trek remember the fights against the borg and that klingons are kind of cool or maybe Seven of Nine's outfit was complimentary to her shape. You know, if you look too deep into any of it, you wreck it. You CAN'T look deep into Battletech without wrecking it. You gotta love it for what it is. Battletech fans are the same guys that watching the latest Mad Max and are really wondering if it was necessary to have those five nymphs hiding in the truck. They're asking themselves: can they fight? No? Well, then they're just a plot device, and unless they get naked, they're useless. (Not once are they stopping and thinking the same thing of the Imperator Furiosa, btw. She has more character than Mad Max, but NO ONE CARES. She can fight, and that is cool. Now, let's get back to blowing stuff up!)

I am struggling to write a Battletech novel right now. I don't know that it will ever be published, but I do think a lot about the kind of questions raised in this thread. I've already violated the rules by having a scene take place while the main character is trying to take a leak. No, I don't have a potty fetish, lol. But I like realism and I am a perfectionist. However, I've already looked back at that scene - even as I write this paragraph here - and am wondering: is this too cliche? Have I seen this same scene in movies already? I guess I have to admit, that yes, I have. And when I really start thinking about it, many of my ideas are stolen from other places. But if I think about it too much, I will stop writing it and the story will never happen. I believe in the story, but I'm sure I'm not the first person to tell it. I'm hoping to tell the story, at least, a little differently than it has been told before. I'm hoping that the right combination of stolen, borrowed, or just coincidentally identical ideas play out in the story so that it is not boring to the reader. Obviously, I won't steel ideas word for word, and nor do I look for things in other books or movies to make my novel good. I'm only recognizing that in the catalog of literature, the thousands upon thousands of stories out there that I will be LUCKY if I am the first to present anything! And so, I know I rambled. I am just here to argue that you shouldn't look to deep into the pulp science fiction of the Battletech universe, unless you want to take away from the very things that has us loving it.

One more thing I almost forgot to mention. Notice, almost all the Battletech authors are male. Writing from a woman's perspective is difficult for most men, and even those men who do understand women are afraid to write them for the same reason they're reluctant to write from the perspective of another culture. Objective understanding doesn't lead to subjective objectivity. I DO try to write women myself, but it takes a lot of thought and effort. Writing from a man's perspective is easy and effortless. I guess when I think of writing from a woman's perspective, I think to myself, "if a woman were to read this, would she be able to identify with this character?" That's part of what hangs me up. Also, when writing of soldiers/mechwarriors, lots of different kinds of men are drafted or drawn into the service. The women who are drawn into the service often do fall into a few broad stereotypes. Super-butch adrenaline junky women, or women who are seeking support or otherwise intellectual roles (like doctors). There's not much middle ground, which is why, I think, so many of the women serve more as plot devices, and those who are mechwarriors are often falling in love with other ones, or are androgynous. Anyway, I have to been the sunrise to sleep lest I burn up.

Also, a list of stronger characters (personality wise) that I can think of off the top of my head. Mind you, 'strong personality' in my point of view is an interesting character with development, changes over time, and often flawed.

Loren Jaffrey
Tara Campbell
Deirdre Lear
Kia-Allard Liao
Phelan Ward-Kell
Natasha Kerensky
Jonah Levin
Joanna

#107 Sparks Murphey

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 02:52 AM

Thanks for a constructive post, Peiper!

#108 Faith McCarron

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 03:02 AM

Great post, Peiper. Thanks!

You're 100% right on the target audience of the original Battletech material. I would point out one thing, however. Audiences evolve. I doubt that the sweet spot in terms of the age of Battletech fans is the same now as it was in, say, 1990 or 1995. The audience has grown up, and in a lot of ways, the universe has grown up. That requires some evolving in different directions.

Fenris.....my issue with your words is that they seem a deliberate attempt to derail the thread and get it closed, since you don't like it.

NOW, that being said, you keep going on about the real world and how I want to censor things and all that. How many times must I state it before you understand what I am saying? I DO NOT want to remove anything from the battletech universe. I don't want to get rid of the violence or make elementals all sing nursery rhymes. I don't want to stop mechwarriors from having pin-ups in their cockpits. All I'm saying is let's ADD to it beyond that, not in place of it.

And all you are doing in response is misrepresenting my position and making assertions about my motives without knowing anything at all about me.

#109 Catalina Steiner

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 03:47 AM

*sigh*

I removed a lot of posts today!
Peiper saved this thread, this is for sure. Thanks for it.

Quote

As a moderator, I strongly recommend to stay close on topic.



It's not a "strong recommendation" anymore, it's the last warning: stay on topic!
We cannot avoid trolls or haters to write in this thread but we can ignore them. This goes to you, Faith in the first place. If you want this thread stay open, don't answer to these kind of hate posts. As for me, I have no love for feminism itself (just to be clear) but troll and hate posts don't deserve our attention. I won't clean this thread AGAIN! Report this stuff and let moderators do their work. Next time this thread will either disappear or go to K-Town, but as a closed one. This is a promise!

Nonetheless I support Faith's idea of a positive and welcoming atmosphere. There is nothing bad about it and everyone who justifies Faith for this without seeing the result is wrong and will be moderated.

This thread is about "gender equality" in the BattleTech universe (not even only women!) . And nothing else!

Edited by Catalina Steiner, 20 May 2015 - 03:49 AM.


#110 CyclonerM

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 06:31 AM

View PostPeiper, on 20 May 2015 - 02:07 AM, said:

I am struggling to write a Battletech novel right now. I don't know that it will ever be published, but I do think a lot about the kind of questions raised in this thread. I've already violated the rules by having a scene take place while the main character is trying to take a leak. No, I don't have a potty fetish, lol. But I like realism and I am a perfectionist. However, I've already looked back at that scene - even as I write this paragraph here - and am wondering: is this too cliche?


I actually like this kind of realism. It is the same you find in G.R.R.M.'s books. If you have read ASoIaF, it is full of that crude realism.

For one, i like to see characters develop, taking choices and facing their consequences.. While i love to read about BattleMechs clashing and blasting each other to pieces, i find that if a novel revolvs too much around combat it is more or less as boring as one focused 80% on politics etc.. It has to be balanced.

Back on the main topic..

There might be few actually "strong" female characters, for any reason, however as pointed out earlier the BT universe makes pretty clear that there is some kind of equality between genders. I mean, even if there are few characters the readers get to know well and like, they still know and see in sourcebook and novels that in this universe women are MechWarriors, AeroSpace pilots, techs, and even nobles ruling planets.

Oh, btw, how did we forget Tyra Miraborg?! :o
She is the opposite of the classic heroine who has to be saved by the shining prince, sacrificing herself in a last desperate attempt to hit the enemy (she does not even do it for glory) and eventually buying a year of peace for the whole Inner Sphere (she could not have known it though).

It reminds me the final battle in Indipendence Day,too.

#111 Ryoken

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 06:35 AM

Aloha, back to OP:
Has anyone mentioned Joanna or Cassie Suthorn?
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Joanna
http://www.sarna.net.../Cassie_Suthorn

It has been a long time since I read the novells, but just recently my girlfriend did start the novells about Cassie and did like them. And I also remember Cassie beeing a tough girl, as well as that female mechwarrior friend of her who has some male bimboish boyfriends which is nicely switching the classic roleset.

So as BT is the future of the 80s I doubt you will find gender equality, but at least it had some very modern rudiments/basic approaches.

Edited by Ryoken, 20 May 2015 - 06:36 AM.


#112 Bill Bullet

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 06:45 AM

See I was a fan of Cassie in the first book she was featured in, "Close Quarters" where her life's circumstances had made her a total sociopath, but by opening up to the Caballero's she regained her lost humanity. The scene wherein she finally breaks down and cries was great she was a good character with a good arc....but then in the next couple of books she was in I feel the author overdid it and almost every single thing seemed to set her off. She reacted to almost everything by either crying or forcing back tears, kinda ruined the character for me. Joanna is awesome and will always be awesome, in fact I'm pretty sure she was first character people held up as an ideal female lead.

#113 Peiper

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 08:49 AM

Then again, there's always Anastasia Kerensky. Get out the popcorn, people, we'll be here all week!

(Possibly the worst main character EVER in Battletech.)

#114 Igorius

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 09:23 AM

On the topic of Clan women, Barbara Sennet comes to mind as one who doesn't get as much lime light as she should. Rather than being written as a totally one sided caricature (as so many of the Clan Khans ultimately are; looking at you, Wars of Reaving), she's politically, militarily, and economically adept enough to drag her Clan (the Diamond Sharks) back from the disaster of Tukayyid, the ravages of the Reavings, and even the transition to life in the Inner Sphere. Sure, she doesn't get much screen time outside of the "whose who" sourcebooks, but she definitely puts most other Khans to shame.

And I do agree with the premise that so many of the characters in the universe are shallow. Outside of those original protagonists (most of whom were men) and a handful of later ones, a variety of depth is... not one of the setting's current strong suits.

#115 Tiamat of the Sea

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 09:26 AM

View PostFaith McCarron, on 19 May 2015 - 06:54 AM, said:

The Heavy Metal was supposed to be the mech of Rhonda Snord.

The pilot of the Pretty Baby was a female.


Per the original material:

3025 Technical Readout said:

Mechwarrior Danielle Peterson
A member of Delmar's assault lance, Tagaki's Batallion(sp) of House Davion's Chisholm's Raiders, Danielle does not look the part of a MechWarrior. Blond(sic) and beautiful, she has what many of her comrades call "the knack". Though joking and friendly outside of her 'Mech, when Danielle buttons up in her Awesome, she seems to become one with the machine, able to react as if it were her own skin. This has saved her on more than one occasion when surrounded by enemy 'Mechs. In one instance, she literally skipped aside with her Awesome, the Pretty Baby, to avoid an incoming missile strike aimed at her. Danielle is famous throughout the Successor States for her skill in piloting the usually unmaneuverable Awesome.


View PostFaith McCarron, on 19 May 2015 - 06:54 AM, said:

I believe the IV-four had a female pilot as well.


3025 Technical Readout said:

MechWarrior Ivy Upsalom
The head of Upsalom's Support Lance of Redjack Ryan's pirate 'Mech force, Ivy is also known as "The Ladykiller". During a raid, she monitors the enemy tactical frequency and picks up on the female MechWarriors, challenging them to personal combat in her Quickdraw, the IV-Four. Upsalom claims she is the best woman MechWarrior in or out of the Successor States, and no one has lived to prove her wrong. The Ladykiller has more than 30 combat kills to her credit.


I'm very fond of my old TRO 3025, most of all because every 'mech has a Notable Pilots listing, something missing for the most part from later TROs, at least through the 3060 TRO.

A few interesting points come to light looking at these short pilot blurbs, which theoretically involved less thought than novel-writing, but come direct from the makers of the franchise rather than filtered through (often questionable quality) writers.

In the Assault and Heavy categories, there are about half as many Notable Pilots who are female as there are male. In Lights, the Notable Pilot division is nearly even. In Medium class 'mechs, though, there are far fewer female Notable Pilots, virtually all of them driving the more heavily armed Medium 'mechs, especially ones with a predilection to long range weaponry, and aren't listed at all for the faster, more agile ones.

I think that's more an oversight matter than anything else, as the pilots seem to be assigned more or less randomly.

What's considerably more interesting to me is that a good two-thirds of the pilots, both male and female, are assigned quirks and traits (no, not game mechanics ones) that could easily have been used to develop them into interesting and valuable characters for novels. From Patricia Wellsely (Urbanmech pilot, collects teapots and has bizarre reading habits, but is exceptional at city defence), Jenny Circi (Battlemaster, noted for being small, personally tending to her 'mech's maintenance and very proud of receiving it as part of a promotion, and tactics that earned her the nickname 'The Hawk', which implies certain methodologies) and Lib Argust (Wolverine, described as 'likable', skilled at rudder-bat and basketball, and a very competitive, risk-taking attitude) to Rodney Van Klevin (Atlas Boar's Head, known for being a very personable aristocrat, and especially noteworthy for stomping around all over the battlefield to terrorize the enemy, resulting in several land grants that are later retracted when he overheats and shuts down on the battlefield), "Dashing John" MacAllister (Thunderbolt Toujours L'Audace utter Napoleonophile, plays French martial music when he fights a la Rhonda Snord, has inspired his underlings in the Eridani Light Horse to also adopt Napoleonic uniforms or at least parts of them), and Richard Timms (Vulcan, a wounded, sterile, incurably ill pilot who is last of his line and has thus sold his family lands to keep his 'mech in perfect condition- while his commanding officers see little use for him given his pending death by disease, he has apparently made a name for himself, implying he's dedicated to putting what time he has left to good use), there are a lot of potentially very interesting three-dimensional characters just waiting to be fleshed out who were never touched.


I find this discussion very interesting myself, having never read any of the novels- just the TROs and core rulebooks- due prevailingly to my age in the '90s and lack of spare cash the rest of the time.

It's always interesting to see what people make of settings when given the opportunity to work with them such as by writing novels, and to see what other people make of that when they get the opportunity to read or otherwise experience it.

Given what I've seen in the TROs and core rulebooks, I'm inclined to think that the majority of any inequality between the sexes in terms of representation in Battletech material is down to the people writing the novels; the source material is clearly slanted a bit originally, but mostly in a purely incidental way that would require the people creating it to have had a different focus than 'make this a good and relatively balanced game'.

I for one think it's a good idea to discuss such things, even if the whole conversation ends up being entirely theoretical, because it's something that we, as people, should try to be aware of, particularly in ourselves. Self-awareness leads to opportunities for improvement, after all. An actual discussion on such topics can then lead to better understanding of different viewpoints garnered by differing perspectives on the same material (such as Cassie as discussed above).

At the same time, it's worth noting that the title of the thread is 'gender equality'. So I'd like to pose this question: Has the treatment of male characters in the fiction surrounding the Battletech franchise been fair either? I ask this not as a challenge, but of curiosity, because I don't know at all. I suspect this is also a fair question because of the nature of inequalities socially- if a society declares certain traits as attaching to a certain sex, then the other is being restricted as well, since they aren't 'allowed' to express these traits any more than the first is 'allowed' to express diverging traits.

View PostFaith McCarron, on 19 May 2015 - 06:54 AM, said:

As for the community manager thing, there might be some of what you say, but I think a lot of it has to do with personality. Tina is a soft-spoken little mouse. Compare that to Garth, who could be pretty snarky, or the guy that banned a whole bunch of people. It's kind of natural to be nicer to one than the other. Plus, they have been a lot more engaged under Tina as well.


Personally, I'm much more inclined to credit this to the fact that Tina is seen to be doing things, which previous managers were.... not so much.... combined with the fact that she is more soft-spoken, which is really something you kind of need in a proper community manager. A gentler tone is more conducive to people feeling like they can talk to you without yelling, after all.

#116 Faith McCarron

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 10:30 AM

I think the best way to address the question of weather or not male characters are treated 'fairly' is with the answer that all the characters in the novels tend to be given a rather cliche treatment, especially earlier on. The males tend to all be of the stiff upper lip variety, many of them are fighting to get out of the shadow of their father/brother/other male relative, that sort of thing. This probably also plays a part in the fact that they get a better treatment, as most of the traditional writing cliches end up with the male protagonist overcoming his flaws and living happily ever after, etc.

#117 rolly

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 10:34 AM

[redacted] NO POLITICS!!!!

Now taking it back to BT:

Faith did mention the Draconis Combine and Canopus - these places highlight different versions of equity. Just like in our current times, gender equity continues to be a problem as it is on the much grander scale of the BT Universe. Which exemplifies that it will continue to be a challenge even in the future. These are culturally enforced gender biases that have roots in our current society.

Eventually the BT/MW universe will start to address more hot topic issues as it continues to update and new authors join the fray (Go Peiper). Take for example George R.R. Martins relevence of strong female characters who don't necessarily fall into the trope of being a bitchy manipulative evil woman. So too will this happen to BT/MW as current topics enter into the media because the readership should knowingly want to delve into these topics.

That being said I do believe what is a "strong" female character is much to the cultural preference. Omi Kurita may not be "strong" to a North American, but to a Japanese woman perhaps she would be an ideal. (Japan also has the worlds highest divorce rate, in part due to cultural norms, duty [giri]). Given her role and position in Draconis high society she did exceedingly well, progressive and was a survivor and beget a heir.

So what are our ideals of a strong female character and are there fitting examples of gender equity in the BT universe other than the equalizer of being in the military, noble birth and a mechwarrior?

Edited by Catalina Steiner, 23 May 2015 - 02:21 AM.


#118 rolly

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 10:42 AM

View PostFaith McCarron, on 20 May 2015 - 10:30 AM, said:

I think the best way to address the question of weather or not male characters are treated 'fairly' is with the answer that all the characters in the novels tend to be given a rather cliche treatment, especially earlier on. The males tend to all be of the stiff upper lip variety, many of them are fighting to get out of the shadow of their father/brother/other male relative, that sort of thing. This probably also plays a part in the fact that they get a better treatment, as most of the traditional writing cliches end up with the male protagonist overcoming his flaws and living happily ever after, etc.


The thing is Faith, the BT/MW Universe is pretty much cliche because it has its roots an easily approachable genre of fan fiction. We see this with the rehash of plots with the reboot Dark Age. Young (noble/commoner) dispossessed, or down trodden, - becomes a power to be reckoned with (gets mech) builds an army, has inner turmoil, problems with socializing, others. Betrayal/Love. Rally's the troops, finds him/her/its -self. I took a glance at some of the plots and I was saying to myself. "Huh? This is a redress of Gray Death or some other merc unit"

I do disagree that they get "better" treatment. In regards to gender equity, its simply different standards. This is sort of blanket answered with the Clan Sibko program. Gender Equity in the BT Universe still is tied to reproduction and the original Machiavellian politics was tied to heredity and nobility.

#119 Pezzer

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 10:58 AM

I'm not a huge battletech lore buff, haven't had the time to dive into it/I just want to play big stompy robots until PGI makes lore more important in MWO, but what I can give is my own personal experience with MechWarrior.

The first one that I played was MW:4. It was my first look at MechWarrior, this was just after I started watching Gundam on Toonami, I was 5 or 6. The first thing that I did was start the game up while my dad was at work (I usually wasn't allowed to play the game haha), and I watched the intro video. My first taste of BattleTech was watching a female pilot fight valiantly to the end against unrelenting odds in order to save others. This was the first time I'd ever seen something like that, and it blew my mind. I ended up having an interesting conversation with my parents about women in militaries, namely about militaries in the past and whether or not it was accepted in the present.

I always assumed that BattleTech was gender equal because of that intro and the intros for the other games. They have always included an important female pilot. The books may be different, given the intended audience and the writers' character design, but to me MechWarrior was the first (and for the longest time the only) shooter that included female warriors. I always thought that was cool and unique, right up to the point that KOTOR came out and brought along even stronger female leads.

#120 CyclonerM

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 11:32 AM

Eureka! I remembered another interesting Clan woman! Can anyone remember the name of that Steel Viper warrior who got disgraced and found herself fighting in the clandestine arena 'Mech fights on Galatea? I do not even remember which book this was lol.

I recall a battle she was fighting with an old Shadow Hawk, which only nearly won..

I enjoyed that story because i like when Clansmen have to immerse themselves in the IS society, especially in the lower kinds of scum :)





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