471 replies to this topic

[Zordicron]

RavenKnight86, on 14 May 2015 - 02:00 PM, said:

I agree with some other posters that Phoenix was supposed to be for a limited time. However if we get an option to bring Phoenix back then we should bring back Founders too.

This is how I feel about this also.

It's the geometry. I own all the founders mechs, in non founders form. I have no chance of ever owning the founders style of each variant. It was part of the reason people preordered.

I guess I would be ok with the Pheonix pack being available, IF it didnt have the geometry. I am on the fence about the (P) variant bonuses also, but the geometry is what makes me step back the most. Offering the packs with the premium time etc, with the C-bill NORMAL variants, go for it all day. it would be like a super mastery bundle of everything discounted, minus the hero mechs.

Heck, no what? just substitute the (C) variants for the (P) variants and I think it would be 90%+ in favor. the geometry and "hero" bonuses would be off the table then, but a solid (C) loadout built into one variant and the other package goodies would still be there at a solid discount.

[C E Dwyer]

kind of meh about what we're voting on, was hoping for a vote choice on the HERO of the ONLY two Peonix/Sabre mechs without one

[KuroNyra]

Phoenix again? Why not. After all, it was just the first real package of mech unlike the Founders Program

But Founders? Heck no, Founders was part of the Closed Beta, it was for the "first ones".
To make it available again would be basicly saying that the whole meaning of the Founder Program is non-existent now. And that's BS;

[Lyoto Machida]

I'm voting no if we get it...just out of principle alone.

[pyrocomp]

Banner here at 'Project Phoenix feedback' page says explicitly that 'once vauted those packages will never be made available again'. Now, the FAQ about this project says:

Quote

Q: Has a sale end date been announced yet (given that Project Phoenix purchases have been delivered)?
A: Project Phoenix and Saber Reinforcements will no longer be available for purchase after December 3, 2013 at 23:59 UTC.

Which is actually formulated rather unclearly. There is uncertainty in part of does 'Project Phoenix' in the quoted part should be read as 'only this 4 packs are Project Phoenix and Project Phoenix is only this 4 packs' or as 'Project Phoenix is a Mech-pack with special (P) variant'. Both does not contradict the initial disclaimer.

If the first formulation is considered correct, then reviving Phoenix Project will be a forfeit of previously stated rules and will... not nullify the trust in programs and promises of uniqueness etc. which help selling Camos, Mechs and so on. Reputaion after all does matter.

If the second formulation is correct then only Phoenix Locust, Phoenix Shadowhawk, Phoenix Thunderbolt and Phoenix Battlemaster cannot be made available. Any other Mech can be sold as Phoenix (like Phoenix Firestarter or Phoenix MadDog).

I haven't found that there (yet may have missed it), but there was no clarification, what actually was ment under 'Project Phoenix'. Disclaimer says something about special variants and other stuff which does not clear the situation. So as the clarification should be made later (as people want Phoenix Mechs and PGI naturally want money) they naturally want to ask those who already bought Phoenix packs what they think and how they understand what is 'Phonix Project'. I think, that PGI could've worded question and proposition much better and directly address people (since the majority of people here are a reasonable folk), but that is their trait and thir problem.

Edited by pyrocomp, 14 May 2015 - 02:58 PM.

[Fobhopper]

Deathlike, on 14 May 2015 - 02:24 PM, said:

3 Things to Mention:

1) The Phoenix Medallion bonus is paltry, since you need ALL 4 mechs in your dropdeck WITH THE MEDALLION to accumulate the bonus.

So, all 4 mechs... instead of getting .0625% per equipped mech (* 4 mechs equipped = 2.5%), it's now 1.25% (* 4 mechs equipped = 5%).

2) The best variants are generally NOT the Phoenix variants (you can kinda see the same happening with the Resistance Packs, although Wave 2 variants is not defined yet).

The value isn't really there... unless you keep on this overquirking system going... which isn't a good solution for a broken problem.


3) For a pack that was introduced as "Limited Time only", why are you reneging on your own deal? It doesn't seem appropriate. Even if that weren't the case, how does this actually reward the people that got the deal in the first place? It doesn't seem like a proposed solution/benefit was designed for those that bought into it the first time. It feels like you are giving people the option to "reopen" another deal... so we have to insert a new controversy just doing this in the first place?



It feels like all shades of wrong is being done here and while I'd still admit to pining for the Shadowhawk (Storm) deal again, this makes absolutely no sense in terms what one is promising to customers, let alone giving back to those who did pay for it previously and not throwing them a bone, outside of providing "the vote" to break a previous promise.

It's all sorts of backwards here.

1) the medallion bonus is small, but you are aware that the (P) mechs have a built in LP bonus of 10%, add that with the medallion and thats a significant LP boost. compared to those without.

2) Just because there are other variants of the mech that are better (Like the D-DC Atlas being superior to the Founders Atlas) doesn't mean the mech is garbage. It really depends on the player and the map. Quirks really help mechs perform better in the roles they were "originally" designed for, and you get bonuses for playing them that way. You can still spec your mech however you want, barring hardpoints/weight/etc.

3) Considering how short the window was for the package, and how small the playerbase was in comparison to the current playerbase (with PGI pushing to get a steam release, get more people involved in CW, and with revamped Quirks all over) it would actually be in PGI's best interest to make the Phoenix collection available again, especially since its a much better value for the customer instead of trying to buy expensive mastery packs in comparison. Its not very conductive for getting more people into the game. Maybe they could give original project phoenix owners a special title or something, but really making such a large collection especially exclusive and forcing everyone else in the game to either grind or go with incredibly expensive mastery collections is not a great business decision.

[Smoked]

I think the vote should be on whether or not to make the "limited" edition atlas, centurion and king crab sellable. That would be a win for more people even though PGI would lose out on an opportunity to make more money but most people that have been around have all the variants anyway.

[Koniving]

RavenKnight86, on 14 May 2015 - 02:00 PM, said:

I agree with some other posters that Phoenix was supposed to be for a limited time. However if we get an option to bring Phoenix back then we should bring back Founders too.

The Clan waves, Resistances, etc... were also supposed to be a limited time. It's why I rushed to buy them.

"If I don't get them now, I won't be able to collect all the unique geometry."

Now it's on a string, "Come get it boys!"


My opinion on it is under the personal concerns of this post.

I'm fine with making things available again for a limited time. But I'm not big on perpetually making them available as the Clan Invasion mechs have been.

[Naduk]

Sable, on 14 May 2015 - 01:39 PM, said:

You know some friends of mine make wise cracks about PGI needing money which is why the keep releasing mechpacks and i always shrugged it off because the mechpacks were always new and it seemed like natural progression. But... now they want to go back and sell old mech packs again? Evidence seems to be shifting sides.

I'm a founder and i'll vote right now, and it's a no. Move on to new things you said it was limited time it should stay that way.

they have been under huge pressure to bring the packs back (sale end date on P got extended 2x)
i dont think its a cash monies desperation move
they are between a rock and a hard place
customer demand for limited edition content is always going to be high
the Phoenix pack its self was a response to people en mass wanting the founders pack to return
but they felt it was the wrong move, so they made the Phoenix pack

clearly there is still demand for it

my vote will be a NO
it was sold as a limited edition , it should remain limited edition

they should make 2 new packs for the next time we get to Tukayyid

they should sell a COMSTAR cache pack to rival the Phoenix pack
include a huge amount of mechs
all the ones from founders/phoenix/resistance1 and perhaps a new chassis or two
paint them all pearl white with fancy markings and make the (c) variant one we have not seen before (giving the pack some nice uniqueness)
give it a comstar medallion , make it provide a loyalty boost for ANY IS faction that you fight for
include some premium time, a skin ,a set of comstar horns and some other nick nacks like forum titles and badges

do basically the same think for the Clans but a Codex of Kerensky pack
obviously the white bit wouldn't work here but their skin artists are good, so im sure they would get some ideas from the remberance

the absolute best thing they could do is allow owners of previous packs to auto qualify for the new variant of mechs they own, that way pack owners would still have a reason to purchase the new super packs as it would still be great value and act like an upgrade to their older packs (so we would be buying the new mechs and getting extra versions of our old ones and basically pay the difference)

pricing should not exceed $150 and be the same for both Clan and IS

[C E Dwyer]

Lyoto Machida, on 14 May 2015 - 02:55 PM, said:

I'm voting no if we get it...just out of principle alone.

Yeah I was, what the hell does it matter, but then, it was limited time only, and bummed about the exclusive camo suddenly going from that to free.

This smacks of PGI running out of mechs and going back more on their word again, to squeeze more cash out the Steamers..

sorry but Limited time should remain limited time, its how it was sold and how it should remain.


Want a yes vote bring out the Wolverine/thunderbolt Heroes

cut a deal with HG..

make a proper pilot cooling vest and shorts, sell it for MC, all real pilots would buy that to make their pilot look better.


Make CW interesting is another thought

Edited by Cathy, 14 May 2015 - 03:13 PM.

[Harathan]

I really can't wrap my head around the "If Phoenix comes back, Founders should come back!" position. One was available to those who backed the game before launch - the clue is in the name - and one was one sale much later, after the game had launched, for a limited time.

I keep getting the urge to tell folks to go look up what "Founder" means in the dictionary. Yeah, I get you're pissed because you bought some that was advertised as a limited-time offer. But bringing Project Phoenix back is very different from bringing Founders packs back.

That said, I don't agree with bringing back either option.

Edited by Harathan, 14 May 2015 - 03:12 PM.

[bad arcade kitty]

well, even such a rich monster as riot games ditched their old limited skin conception and made most of those limited skins available again from time to time on some occasions

it's like the fate of the early limited content

[MoonUnitBeta]

Cool!

[Othello]

Can we give the Phoenix owners a chance to get their 5th and 6th medallion?

[Leigus]

Woo!

[MavRCK]

http://www.reddit.co...x_rising_event/

Quote

Medallions that were useless for over a year.

[P] Variants which have terrible layouts and quirks so have languished in Tier 3 poor capability for over 1.5 years. The better variants were cbill purchasable and not included in the original package. PGi still hasn't address the issues through quirk revision.

Purchasers of the Phoenix Project wanted to support PGI - and did - but got terrible mechs as a result and useless items. See my old videos supporting PGI prior to the release and see my reaction after the release.


I agree 100% with TheLostBeerKeg - $110 for the full package just isn't worth it. I feel right in having recommended this package to people - my apologies to everyone - so I feel conflicted voted to allow others to buy it despite having a buyer-beware, be-an-informed-adult mentalit.

My conscience feels guilty letting others buy this package -- on my old tier list videos from 2 years ago I recommended buying the package for players -- but the variants, layouts, useless medallions and other 'extras' really burned anyone who did buy the Phoenix Package.

Edited by MavRCK, 14 May 2015 - 03:30 PM.

[Túatha Dé Danann]

Things I'm interested in:
- Hero mechs because of the C-Bills Bonus
- Loyality bonus via medallions
- Loyality bonus via mech chassis

Now... you will only use Mechs in CW which are capable of holding their ground there, esp. against Clan mechs. As it stands now, NONE of the Phoenix variant mechs are ever used in CW as they do not stand a chance against Clan mechs of the same tonnage.

So you will not get the "hero" bonus, nor the loyality bonus and are stuck with the medallions.

If you PGI really want to make a sale out of this, then do the math and offer Phoenix Variants of mechs which are the most popular on IS in CW right now.
Meaning:
Phoenix Thunderbolt 5SS
Phoenix Battlemaster with adapted Quirks so that a Stalker 4N equivalent comes out (both have 85t, no problem on balance here)
Phoenix Shadowhawk that is finally a Tier 1 mech again
Phoenix Light (you can put out a new one... be creative)

If its NOT the stuff mentioned above, there will be no reason to buy it. Why? Well, logic: You get CW bonus stuff so you use it in CW meaning you need mechs that are CW capable. Simple, isn't it?

[Ovion]

Sable, on 14 May 2015 - 01:39 PM, said:

You know some friends of mine make wise cracks about PGI needing money which is why the keep releasing mechpacks and i always shrugged it off because the mechpacks were always new and it seemed like natural progression. But... now they want to go back and sell old mech packs again? Evidence seems to be shifting sides.

I'm a founder and i'll vote right now, and it's a no. Move on to new things you said it was limited time it should stay that way.

Tenmou, on 14 May 2015 - 01:47 PM, said:

I am not a founder, but I bought the Phoenix/Saber pack and it was supposed to be for a limited time so I have to agree with Sable.

Which is why they're giving the Phoenix owners the option to release it.
People want to buy them.

I missed being able to buy Phoenix anything by days.
Literally, I couldn't install the game before then as much as I wanted, and being pretty limited on funds, buying something I might never use just couldn't be justified.
Then I actually got my computer, I could play, and the sale ended.

And even then, I just want the one that's the worst deal.
I want the Locust level.
3 Mechs + bays, plus a couple extras, worth all of the asking price only.

I don't care, the 1V(P) is the only Locust I don't have.

So it's being put in the hands of the community, and the people that bought it.
If people vote no, then so be it.

But it's a very selfish way to look at it.
Some people like the mechs and would just like the oppurtunity to get them.
You still got it early, you still got the mechs, you still got the enjoyment.
Saying 'no' just because you want it to be 'limited' is more than a little petty.

And either way, for buying then, you get an additional boost.

Jaz 249, on 14 May 2015 - 02:07 PM, said:

Folk want the P variants??! lol

You can have mine, I allmost never use my pheonix mechs because the other variants are way way better

If I could, I would.
There's others that have said the same actually.
All I want is the bloody Locust.

Deathlike, on 14 May 2015 - 02:24 PM, said:

3 Things to Mention:

1) The Phoenix Medallion bonus is paltry, since you need ALL 4 mechs in your dropdeck WITH THE MEDALLION to accumulate the bonus.

So, all 4 mechs... instead of getting .0625% per equipped mech (* 4 mechs equipped = 2.5%), it's now 1.25% (* 4 mechs equipped = 5%).

The value isn't there, not that it matters.


2) The best variants are generally NOT the Phoenix variants (you can kinda see the same happening with the Resistance Packs, although Wave 2 variants is not defined yet).

The value isn't really there... unless you keep on this overquirking system going... which isn't a good solution for a broken problem.


3) For a pack that was introduced as "Limited Time only", why are you reneging on your own deal? It doesn't seem appropriate. Even if that weren't the case, how does this actually reward the people that got the deal in the first place? It doesn't seem like a proposed solution/benefit was designed for those that bought into it the first time. It feels like you are giving people the option to "reopen" another deal... so we have to insert a new controversy just doing this in the first place?



It feels like all shades of wrong is being done here and while I'd still admit to pining for the Shadowhawk (Storm) deal again, this makes absolutely no sense in terms what one is promising to customers, let alone giving back to those who did pay for it previously and not throwing them a bone, outside of providing "the vote" to break a previous promise.

It's all sorts of backwards here.

This is true. The Phoenix variants aren't the best.
They look cool though, and have a bonus which is nice.

Because people want it, have been asking for it for a long time.
Many missed it at the time, or just like the special mechs, etc.
If it was just a cash grab, they could just do it.
Instead, they've given the community, specifically the people who bought it in the first place, the option.

Eldagore, on 14 May 2015 - 02:50 PM, said:

This is how I feel about this also.

It's the geometry. I own all the founders mechs, in non founders form. I have no chance of ever owning the founders style of each variant. It was part of the reason people preordered.

I guess I would be ok with the Pheonix pack being available, IF it didnt have the geometry. I am on the fence about the (P) variant bonuses also, but the geometry is what makes me step back the most. Offering the packs with the premium time etc, with the C-bill NORMAL variants, go for it all day. it would be like a super mastery bundle of everything discounted, minus the hero mechs.

Heck, no what? just substitute the (C) variants for the (P) variants and I think it would be 90%+ in favor. the geometry and "hero" bonuses would be off the table then, but a solid (C) loadout built into one variant and the other package goodies would still be there at a solid discount.

Which defeats the entire reason to have it.
You'd get little to no discount over just buying them for MC.
For the smaller packs it may actually be more expensive than buying for MC.
And for many people, would just kill the reason to get it.

As is, I'd buy the Phoenx Locust pack immediately.
Without the (P) geometry and bonus, it loses all point and there's no way I would bother.

[Ovion]

Also, to be clear.

Regardless of the result, a significant number of people will be pissed off.

[Smoked]

^ So based on this, they should have a user mech auction/exchange where people can sell mechs to each other. Yes it may promote account theft now that items of value can be traded between accounts but for people holding on to "limited" mechs, they can actually get a lot more c-bills out of it. It would make mechs actually become more worth it to buy when released which is a win for PGI.