130 replies to this topic

[Gladewolf]

...because battlemechs, weapons systems and equipment have never been nerfed before now....

[Kellen Wolf]

Well, back on topic; I have cancelled my Wave III order. As I said in another thread, I gave PGI the benefit of the doubt for years now, and supported the game strongly, but I'm not going to pay for a something only to end up half of it being comparably useless/non competitive and eventually have the content that WAS good nerfed into a sub par condition.

And before someone predictably reiterates the 'it's the pilot not the mech' comment; an adder or kitfox/sh*t lynx will lose 9/10x against a raven/fire starter/locust regardless of how good the pilot in the clan mechs are..and I would say the same about ice ferret, summoner, warhawk up against their counter on the IS side. It's just a matter of how hamstrung they made those chassis after they released them. I am willing to set up a private match with anyone to illustrate this..just send me a friend request.

I am not going to get into the circular argument of buffs/quirks/nerfs. The above is why I won't be giving MWO a game I've been with since literally day 1 anymore of my money. I would add an 'until they'..but history has shown that they will keep doing the same ol' same ol'.

[Whitefang70]

Naduk, on 16 May 2015 - 11:06 PM, said:

timber and scrow had this coming for a long time
if you think they are anything other than OP your completely delusional

time to find a new crutch you bads

Calling me bad or others bads means you got some good stats put on the table.
K/d 2.88
Win/loss 1203/943
Show me your stats. If you're not greater than mine or you dont have good stats at all then you are in general an idiot to come up and call people out in the first place. No offense but I never point at anyone and dont appreciate people pointing at others.

[Void Angel]

ArchAngelWC, on 16 May 2015 - 05:00 PM, said:

screw it...I don't need that cauldron born anyways....and they will probably nerf it the moment it comes out and IS players scream OP.....which is the entire ****ing point of the Clan v IS battle....and why the IS economy is soo important to CW

The complaints I see in this thread are all like this; some people who want the game to be something other than it is and has always been, and they're flying off the handle about comparatively small nerfs. Do you honestly think this is the End of Days for the adjective animals? You still have the hitboxes, speed, and range advantages the Stormcrow is known for - and pointing to the largest possible combination of laser duration nerfs (for example) is completely disingenuous. The big nerfs for laser duration are going onto the pods that have large numbers of hardpoints for energy weapons. This makes taking twelve energy hardpoints on a Stormcrow a meaningful decision, and laser duration really isn't going to hurt you that much. You guys were already ducking back before the lasers completed if you started taking return fire, so what you're really looking at is a small loss of DPS, not survivability. So, if the nerf really is too much, you can only use one arm with 4-6 energy hardpoints on it, and adjust your weapon mix a bit. Pleading helplessness when you really can swap out the dang pods or just fricking duck isn't going to cut the mustard.

Alternately, there's the Industry Experts propounding about how "X cried on the forums and that's why my Y got nerfed!" That's not how game developers decide to nerf things, and if the proponents of this fairy logic in MWO would apply their minds, rather than their wants, to the situation, they'd easily see that. The Timber Wolf and Stormcrow have been on the screaming mad complaint list almost since they were released. That's not debatable; IS players have been calling for them to be nerfed for a long time. And, as we can see from Tukayyid, there are a lot more IS players, though many of us own Clan 'mechs as well. And yet, PGI made no changes to those chassis for a very long time, trying to rely on adjusting Clantech in general to achieve balance. These three facts strongly indicate that PGI isn't just following the mob and nerfing whatever the forum complainers ask them to. They might be doing what every other developer does, and what they probably learned they should do if they went to school or something for game design - using forum traffic to check which issues are most important to players, then using game statistics, internal testing, and theorycrafting to decide if, when, and where to nerf.

None of this is to say that you can magically avoid the nerf by switching omnipods, or that it's not a nerf to begin with. But, any time your reasoning relies on knowledge you don't have, ignores standard methods of doing things, disregards applicable facts, or invokes grand conspiracy theories about how a game design staff is "shooting themselves in the foot," and it's you - just you - who can see it, you're being a kook, and your opinion will be consigned to the wastebasket as it deserves. Throwing screaming hissy fits and trying to start a forum fire based on feeling trumping fact will not convince anyone worth convincing.

If you really want to change PGI's mind, start with an argument that actually makes sense.

[Yokaiko]

Void Angel, on 17 May 2015 - 02:53 PM, said:

If you really want to change PGI's mind, start with an argument that actually makes sense.

Nah just email billing@mwomercs.com.

[Night Thastus]

Daisu Saikoro, on 16 May 2015 - 03:58 PM, said:

Buying something doesn't mean it won't change.

It'd be my wish that individuals get over themselves. The Timberowlf, Stormcrow, and other mechs have given infinite amounts of joy to those who play them. They will continue to do so with hopefully more mechs being seen on the field.

Adapt. Grow. Get over it. Move on. Trueborn warriors do this.

What a disrespectful attitude to people who work to bring us the game we play and love.
Perhaps being constructive and not referring them as idiots would be a good step.

It seems one of our trothkin has a good head on his shoulders. We are clanners. We don't cry about a disadvantage, real or imaginary. We percieve it as an obstacle to overcome, to attain ever greater glory. Such is the way of the clans.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Kellen Wolf, on 17 May 2015 - 01:06 PM, said:

Well, back on topic; I have cancelled my Wave III order. As I said in another thread, I gave PGI the benefit of the doubt for years now, and supported the game strongly, but I'm not going to pay for a something only to end up half of it being comparably useless/non competitive and eventually have the content that WAS good nerfed into a sub par condition.

And before someone predictably reiterates the 'it's the pilot not the mech' comment; an adder or kitfox/sh*t lynx will lose 9/10x against a raven/fire starter/locust regardless of how good the pilot in the clan mechs are..and I would say the same about ice ferret, summoner, warhawk up against their counter on the IS side. It's just a matter of how hamstrung they made those chassis after they released them. I am willing to set up a private match with anyone to illustrate this..just send me a friend request.

I am not going to get into the circular argument of buffs/quirks/nerfs. The above is why I won't be giving MWO a game I've been with since literally day 1 anymore of my money. I would add an 'until they'..but history has shown that they will keep doing the same ol' same ol'.

I'd like to take up this challenge.

[Night Thastus]

Boy, it's almost like these builds I've made have good DPS, incredibly low heat, high damage, and are kick-ass tons of fun!
AND THEY DONT USE LASERS.
WHO WOULD'VE THOUGHT:

Stormcrow:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5fed97f8df7f853

Timberwolf:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7c2c43115654e25

[Yokaiko]

Night Thastus, on 17 May 2015 - 04:40 PM, said:

Boy, it's almost like these builds I've made have good DPS, incredibly low heat, high damage, and are kick-ass tons of fun!
AND THEY DONT USE LASERS.
WHO WOULD'VE THOUGHT:

Stormcrow:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5fed97f8df7f853

Timberwolf:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7c2c43115654e25

Both with maybe enough ammo for a pub game....in the solo queue.

Ever see a CW -1N build, you are carrying 10-12 tons of ammo and half of the time I have to eject out because I ran it dry.

[sycocys]

Played a couple CW matches with my TBR's and didn't even notice the difference, seems like a lot of overreacting to me.

[Whitefang70]

Void Angel, on 17 May 2015 - 02:53 PM, said:

The complaints I see in this thread are all like this; some people who want the game to be something other than it is and has always been, and they're flying off the handle about comparatively small nerfs. Do you honestly think this is the End of Days for the adjective animals? You still have the hitboxes, speed, and range advantages the Stormcrow is known for - and pointing to the largest possible combination of laser duration nerfs (for example) is completely disingenuous. The big nerfs for laser duration are going onto the pods that have large numbers of hardpoints for energy weapons. This makes taking twelve energy hardpoints on a Stormcrow a meaningful decision, and laser duration really isn't going to hurt you that much. You guys were already ducking back before the lasers completed if you started taking return fire, so what you're really looking at is a small loss of DPS, not survivability. So, if the nerf really is too much, you can only use one arm with 4-6 energy hardpoints on it, and adjust your weapon mix a bit. Pleading helplessness when you really can swap out the dang pods or just fricking duck isn't going to cut the mustard.

Alternately, there's the Industry Experts propounding about how "X cried on the forums and that's why my Y got nerfed!" That's not how game developers decide to nerf things, and if the proponents of this fairy logic in MWO would apply their minds, rather than their wants, to the situation, they'd easily see that. The Timber Wolf and Stormcrow have been on the screaming mad complaint list almost since they were released. That's not debatable; IS players have been calling for them to be nerfed for a long time. And, as we can see from Tukayyid, there are a lot more IS players, though many of us own Clan 'mechs as well. And yet, PGI made no changes to those chassis for a very long time, trying to rely on adjusting Clantech in general to achieve balance. These three facts strongly indicate that PGI isn't just following the mob and nerfing whatever the forum complainers ask them to. They might be doing what every other developer does, and what they probably learned they should do if they went to school or something for game design - using forum traffic to check which issues are most important to players, then using game statistics, internal testing, and theorycrafting to decide if, when, and where to nerf.

None of this is to say that you can magically avoid the nerf by switching omnipods, or that it's not a nerf to begin with. But, any time your reasoning relies on knowledge you don't have, ignores standard methods of doing things, disregards applicable facts, or invokes grand conspiracy theories about how a game design staff is "shooting themselves in the foot," and it's you - just you - who can see it, you're being a kook, and your opinion will be consigned to the wastebasket as it deserves. Throwing screaming hissy fits and trying to start a forum fire based on feeling trumping fact will not convince anyone worth convincing.

If you really want to change PGI's mind, start with an argument that actually makes sense.

I just read half of you're saying and Im already disagreeing and stopped reading cuz of that.
Im going to explain to you why I disagree.
For clans peeka poo will be VERY difficult since if they peek they gotta aim and shoot mechs for more than 1.80s+ while most IS laser duration is VERY close to I call it "ZAPPING" (Thunderwub/Thunderzap for example).
Just NO!
They NEED to scratch these game destroying quirks or they will lose money.
As someone explained, clans are NOT fun anymore!

sycocys, on 17 May 2015 - 06:12 PM, said:

Played a couple CW matches with my TBR's and didn't even notice the difference, seems like a lot of overreacting to me.

CW is totally a different ball game.

Edited by Whitefang70, 17 May 2015 - 06:16 PM.

[Apewar]

Quote

Played a couple CW matches with my TBR's and didn't even notice the difference, seems like a lot of overreacting to me.

what differences are you looking for, the patch is on the 19th

Edited by Apewar, 17 May 2015 - 06:22 PM.

[Void Angel]

Whitefang70, on 17 May 2015 - 06:17 PM, said:

I just read half of you're saying and Im already disagreeing and stopped reading cuz of that.
Im going to explain to you why I disagree.

Why would I be interested in an uninformed rebuttal? You didn't read the post through, so you don't know what you're disagreeing with, and you're comparing apples to oranges already. You can't compare laser durations in a magical world where range, cooling, hardpoints, and tonnage don't exist. But hey! Don't let me interrupt your knee-jerk reaction by pointing out minor points like factuality and logic. You just carry on and have a good cry.

[Kellen Wolf]

Daisu Saikoro, on 17 May 2015 - 04:18 PM, said:

I'd like to take up this challenge.

Shoot me a friend invite, and we'll hook it up!

[Nightshade24]

Sniper09121986, on 17 May 2015 - 03:55 AM, said:

Well, I believe these mechs are OK for you now Actually I respect that attitude, I never drive Ravens, Flamestarters or Spiders for this very reason. Thing is, there was not much to choose from for us, they just had to fix Clan ballistics before swinging the nerf bat on lasers.


That was the case well before Tukayyid, so I believe this is actually their answer

We need clans drived even more to the ground to the point the best 12 players in MW: O in a co ordinative group will have a 50% chance of loosing to a group of 12 IS pugs some baring LRM atlases and Singular machine gun shadowhawks.

Keep the nerf train coming, PGI is already realizing slowly there are making mistakes. (ie gargoyle, one of them likes piloting a gargoyle which is practically a stock Prime with no laser. he feels it's still underwhelming and will require buffs in something say ammo increase.)

The Timberwolf A nerf is quite uncalled for to be honest. 27% increase durration and cool down (increase, not decrease... as an nerf) roughly for timberwolf A, 12% from the 3 E hardpoint up high on it.
Kinda funny... I see no nerf for the 3 high E hardpoint stormcrow. the 4E high any stalker, or the 6 mid-high battlemasters. Or 4E high king crab, or any IS mech.

hell NO is mech has a negative value quirk... Kinda saddened really. Would have been nice if they countered these severe nerfs with buffs but alas we barely got some 5% quirks on 1 or 2 arms for stormcrow...

The thing is I run the timberwolf D stock for eg and that thing is going to get hit hard by nerfs... Can't remember anyone crying ER PPC + streak timberwolfs being OP...

[Kristian Radoulov]

Back on topic: sent my email after I read the entirety of the patch notes to billing to ask for my refund.

[Repasy Cooper]

I've said it before and I'll say it again... true Clan warriors are not phased by these nerfs.

[Dino Might]

"I don't like ______ [some relatively minor part of the game]. I demand a refund and I want PGI to burn!"

^ 90% of the posts in the Gen Disc forum.

Seriously, how much attention did you guys not get as children?

[o0Marduk0o]

Asking for a refund basically means that you are bad at robots. I assume you would only spend money, when you get superior toys.

[The Great Unwashed]

Not really, it just seems that milk is a better long-term investment. Buying mechs was my way to support this game but at the moment I think I'll just stop.