103 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Good lord, adding/subtracting imaginary structure to compensate for how easy/hard a section is to hit has got to be the most hand holding logic I have ever seen.

[Caboosegg]

people always need somthing to complain about.... i hope when people complain about mechs like the thunderbolt the realise the thing cant be missed, its a fat slab of metal and suffers (not to the same level) from the old awesome syndrome.

[Duke Nedo]

None right now, wait and see how this plays out. There are lots of red numbers but realistically the net nerf is in the range of 6-18% laser duration. Cooldown hardly matters. Not as bad as it seems, it's only really bad if you use all E hardpoints, gauss+ energy is not nuked, agility and heat is not touched . Also, ballistics velocity buff is coming... Too early to play the revenge-nerf card... :-)

[Joseph Mallan]

Caboosegg, on 17 May 2015 - 03:43 AM, said:

people always need somthing to complain about.... i hope when people complain about mechs like the thunderbolt the realise the thing cant be missed, its a fat slab of metal and suffers (not to the same level) from the old awesome syndrome.

I choose to complain about complaining.

[Alistair Winter]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 May 2015 - 03:28 AM, said:

Actually, they are working as intended. Thunderbolts were rugged performers. They were however lost in the shadow of better looking Mechs. Not one of our present Heavies were "great" Mechs. Not one. I would have taken a Tbolt or Orion if There wasn't a Dragonfire or Warhammer.

What is this past you're referring to? I don't follow.

[Joseph Mallan]

Alistair Winter, on 17 May 2015 - 04:11 AM, said:

What is this past you're referring to? I don't follow.

If you don't remember your history you are doomed to repeat it.

[Pjwned]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 May 2015 - 03:41 AM, said:

Good lord, adding/subtracting imaginary structure to compensate for how easy/hard a section is to hit has got to be the most hand holding logic I have ever seen.

Is that a response to anything in particular? That also seems like a statement that's too generalized because a mech with an oversized center torso is probably going to have a harder time (in general) than a mech with oversized arms or legs or whatever.

Let's say we're talking about the Catapults. They clearly have giant arms, which is not necessarily a bad thing since that's a defining feature of Catapults, but when you also consider they're not exactly stellar mechs and that's where they tend to house most of their firepower (aside from the K2 I suppose) then some durability buffs to the arms are not unreasonable. At the same time though, such durability buffs should not be excessive, which is what I think of a +20 armor and +20 structure buff to Catapult arms because the large arms should not be buffed so much that they're hardly a liability despite being large.

Edited by Pjwned, 17 May 2015 - 04:25 AM.

[MilesTeg1982]

Duke Nedo, on 17 May 2015 - 03:45 AM, said:

There are lots of red numbers but realistically the net nerf is in the range of 6-18% laser duration.

indeed, the cooldown does not really matter cause laser vomit builds are limited by heat anyway - however that increased burn time really hurts.

Just keep in mind - Clan-lasers have allready a significantly longer burn time than IS-lasers and while many IS-Mechs have decreased burn times - TBRs and SCRs now get increased burn times. As a result:

- its harder to get all damage into specific locations
- the face time is increased - means you won't be able to spread damage by torso twisting as good as IS-Mechs can

back the OPs question: basicly every mech with 50% quirks should be changed like Dragon 1N and Iron Grid

Also - decreased burn time on large lasers or lasers in general should be removed complety - on medium or small lasers its ok cause people need to get close to make use of that.

[meteorol]

Duke Nedo, on 17 May 2015 - 03:45 AM, said:

None right now, wait and see how this plays out. There are lots of red numbers but realistically the net nerf is in the range of 6-18% laser duration. Cooldown hardly matters. Not as bad as it seems, it's only really bad if you use all E hardpoints, gauss+ energy is not nuked, agility and heat is not touched . Also, ballistics velocity buff is coming... Too early to play the revenge-nerf card... :-)

How does cooldown hardly matter? As long as you are not heatcapped, 18% more cooldown costs you a significant amount of your dps. Don't forget that cooldown starts after the burn finished, so longer burn time+ longer cooldown comes together for even less dps. And how is gauss+ energy not nuked? The most prominent build in that regard was gauss+5 er ml. 5 energy heatpoints result in a pretty harsh penalty.
Guys will probably use the gauss/2lpl build a lot more than right now. But honestly, getting pigeonholed into specific builds because you are trying to avoid penalties isn't exactly promoting build diversity.

[Kiiyor]

Pjwned, on 17 May 2015 - 02:35 AM, said:

Still missing about a dozen other mechs.

Well, many of those mechs, despite the claimed over quirking, are still bad. Terrible. Garbage.

People keep claiming that mechs are 'over quirked' because or raw numbers. The thing is, these numbers are borderline irrelevant when the mechs are terrible anyway. The Awesome does indeed have some terrifying raw damage numbers, but that mech is still the equivalent of a 10 year old myopic fat kid with a bazooka. He has some firepower, but the only way he is ever going to be dangerous is if you're locked in a broom closet with him. I've played the Awesome in every iteration of MW. It's my favourite mech. I've probably got 3K drops in that thing alone going back to CB, and even with it's godlike quirks, I can't bring myself to drag it out of mothballs. It's a free kill to the enemy.

The GridIron has some fantastic quirks for that Gauss, but it's still terrible. The insane rate of fire is dependent on no-one actually looking at you while you are shooting at them - or that Gauss, and likely your CT, are gone. He can't hit and fade like the 4G. He's the ghost in Super Mario that stops when you turn around.

There may be a case for some of the other mechs and their quirks, but i'm not sold. I'll be interested to see how the meta shifts now that the Trinity (may) have lost some of it's luster.

All IMHO, of course.

[Joseph Mallan]

Pjwned, on 17 May 2015 - 04:19 AM, said:

Is that a response to anything in particular? That also seems like a statement that's too generalized because a mech with an oversized center torso is probably going to have a harder time (in general) than a mech with oversized arms or legs or whatever.

Let's say we're talking about the Catapults. They clearly have giant arms, which is not necessarily a bad thing since that's a defining feature of Catapults, but when you also consider they're not exactly stellar mechs and that's where they tend to house most of their firepower (aside from the K2 I suppose) then some durability buffs to the arms are not unreasonable. At the same time though, such durability buffs should not be excessive, which is what I think of a +20 armor and +20 structure buff to Catapult arms because the large arms should not be buffed so much that they're hardly a liability despite being large.

In general. I think its just to much hand holding.

Catapult (As designed) has 66% or more of its firepower in the arms. Unless you take the all ears A1. Now a smart Pilot would not put all his eggs in one basket and would not need to have the arms buffed.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 17 May 2015 - 04:54 AM.

[FupDup]

I don't think any of them do.


There are a lot of mechs that I would want to redistribute the quirks of, but not outright nerf them. I would not try to outright reduce their PowerLevels.

[Wintersdark]

kapusta11, on 17 May 2015 - 03:18 AM, said:

Awesome is just blatantly OP. Victor, Commando, Spider, Trebuchet, Catapult, Cataphract, Orion might use some nerfing.

I'm sorry, but I can't tell. Are you being sarcastic?

[Deathlike]

Technically there really aren't any.

Look at what a somewhat restricted dropdeck of all weight classes (can choose from either Clan or IS) and you can determine easily that 3 Clan mechs fill the top tier easily (Dire Wolf, Timberwolf, Stormcrow) with the IS has 1 (Firestarter).

By comparison, many other IS Lights are still inferior to the current Firestarter (this will change a little, but not by much), and ultimately it's not like PGI is capable of using the nerfhammer properly.

[FupDup]

Wintersdark, on 17 May 2015 - 04:57 AM, said:

I'm sorry, but I can't tell. Are you being sarcastic?

I thought it was pretty clear that he was.

[Joseph Mallan]

FupDup, on 17 May 2015 - 05:00 AM, said:

I thought it was pretty clear that he was.

Sarcasm can be lost depending on the voice you use to read a post sometimes.

For instance since I only got 3 hours sleep last nigh... this morning, Everyone's posts seem ....grumpy.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 17 May 2015 - 05:04 AM.

[Wintersdark]

FupDup, on 17 May 2015 - 05:00 AM, said:

I thought it was pretty clear that he was.

Well, I assumed so... but then... Well, you know how forums can be.

[Deathlike]

Wintersdark, on 17 May 2015 - 05:04 AM, said:

Well, I assumed so... but then... Well, you know how forums can be.

Forums are SRS business.

[FupDup]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 May 2015 - 05:02 AM, said:

Sarcasm can be lost depending on the voice you use to read a post sometimes.

For instance since I only got 3 hours sleep last nigh... this morning, Everyone's posts seem ....grumpy.

Edited by FupDup, 17 May 2015 - 05:06 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

exactly! Only next time just embed the picture.