103 replies to this topic

[Telmasa]

Alistair Winter, on 17 May 2015 - 01:44 AM, said:

The consensus seems to be that the Timber Wolf and Stormcrow were nerfed too hard. Not because they're terrible compared to other clan mechs, but because the Inner Sphere is going to steamroll the Clans in CW.
So what Inner Sphere mechs would need to be nerfed in order to keep things even?
Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that PGI is now going to nerf the top mechs instead of just buffing the underpowered mechs. Let's also assume that the TBR and SCR are now just where PGI wants them, so there's no point in talking about reverting the changes in the coming patch.
What Inner Sphere mechs need to be nerfed harder just to make things even between factions? Thunderbolts? Stalkers? Firestarters? Clan players, which Inner Sphere mechs are you most worried will dominate in CW now?

In this particular order:
Thunderbolts, Stalker-4N (though maybe not anymore? we will see), Firestarter-S, Dragon-1N, Grid Iron, Huginn, Hunchback-4J's missile cooldown, Raven-4X's duration/range quirks, any PPC velocity buff exceeding 20% - really any quirks that exceed 15%, maybe 20% in some cases (this includes ones that stack on top of eachother).

Kiiyor, on 17 May 2015 - 04:48 AM, said:

The GridIron has some fantastic quirks for that Gauss, but it's still terrible.

Completely untrue. You can put the same exact loadout on my Shadowhawk, suffering all the same consequences and trade-offs, yet I get NOTHING in the form of quirked superpowers for it. Tell me how that's fair? (And how I still can do perfectly fine in said Shadowhawk?)

lsp, on 17 May 2015 - 07:44 AM, said:

F v c k that, your ideas are garbage and unnecessary. Specially the MPL range to PPC velocity, just showing your true bias. PPC velocity is such a wasted quirk, specially on a mech that doesn't use ppcs... and the fact the ppcs are completely worthless. TDR-5SS is fine as is. Dragons are still Dragons and aren't even good, they're still like tier 3 mechs, because their hitboxes are garbage and they have to take an xl.

No, his ideas are great and hit the nails on the head. You just don't want your superquirked toys broken, because apparently that's all you can possibly enjoy in your potheaded rage.

At least I assume it's potheaded rage, given the tone of your post and the absence of any logic or any presence in reality.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

All of these butthurt clanners I love it

[Duke Nedo]

Telmasa, on 17 May 2015 - 09:10 AM, said:

Completely untrue. You can put the same exact loadout on my Shadowhawk, suffering all the same consequences and trade-offs, yet I get NOTHING in the form of quirked superpowers for it. Tell me how that's fair? (And how I still can do perfectly fine in said Shadowhawk?)

Have you played the GI? If so you'd know that it's not OP. Ok, I can only speak for myself but I perform much more consistently with the 4G. The quirk number is freakin awesome, but in practice it's hard to make good use of it. A few times per match you can get 2 or even 3 shots in a row off without hiding, then it's great, but in most cases you'll have to fire once and hide which you do just as well in a shadowhawk, but with JJs if you want to. So, the effective benefit on the GI from that quirk is way way below the 50% you get.

[Yokaiko]

Telmasa, on 17 May 2015 - 09:10 AM, said:

In this particular order:
Thunderbolts, Stalker-4N (though maybe not anymore? we will see), Firestarter-S, Dragon-1N, Grid Iron, Huginn, Hunchback-4J's missile cooldown, Raven-4X's duration/range quirks, any PPC velocity buff exceeding 20% - really any quirks that exceed 15%, maybe 20% in some cases (this includes ones that stack on top of eachother).

The -4N is taking all of a 3% dps nerf, its kids gloves.

[Telmasa]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 17 May 2015 - 09:14 AM, said:

All of these butthurt clanners I love it

Majority of my 'Mechs are mastered IS chassis, get real.

Duke Nedo, on 17 May 2015 - 09:18 AM, said:

Have you played the GI? If so you'd know that it's not OP. Ok, I can only speak for myself but I perform much more consistently with the 4G. The quirk number is freakin awesome, but in practice it's hard to make good use of it. A few times per match you can get 2 or even 3 shots in a row off without hiding, then it's great, but in most cases you'll have to fire once and hide which you do just as well in a shadowhawk, but with JJs if you want to. So, the effective benefit on the GI from that quirk is way way below the 50% you get.

Are you delusional?

The GI literally fires the Gauss Rifle twice as fast as my Shadowhawk can.

I've been using the Gausshawk since before the Quirks came out. I know how a single gauss can perform, I know its trade-offs, and they are well-deserved.

There's absolutely no excuse for the Grid Iron to get such excessive buffing in comparison. The only disadvantage it has compared to the S-hawk is the lack of jumpjets ability & being 5 tons lighter, that's it.

Just because you personally can't figure out how to make full use of the OP quirk, the OP quirk is okay? What?

[LordKnightFandragon]

Nerf the TBR/SCR but no buffs to the other Clams...

[ShinobiHunter]

LordKnightFandragon, on 17 May 2015 - 09:48 AM, said:

Nerf the TBR/SCR but no buffs to the other Clams...

I think this is an issue too. Some of the other clan mechs needed buffs to make up for these nerfs. Really though, I don't see the TBR and SCR being dethroned any time soon...

*Auto correct. Worst invention ever...

Edited by ShinobiHunter, 17 May 2015 - 11:21 AM.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Telmasa, on 17 May 2015 - 09:33 AM, said:

Majority of my 'Mechs are mastered IS chassis, get real.

The fact that you felt personally insulted by statement is a testament to how truly butthurt you are about it :^)

[Duke Nedo]

Telmasa, on 17 May 2015 - 09:33 AM, said:

Are you delusional?

The GI literally fires the Gauss Rifle twice as fast as my Shadowhawk can.

I've been using the Gausshawk since before the Quirks came out. I know how a single gauss can perform, I know its trade-offs, and they are well-deserved.

There's absolutely no excuse for the Grid Iron to get such excessive buffing in comparison. The only disadvantage it has compared to the S-hawk is the lack of jumpjets ability & being 5 tons lighter, that's it.

Just because you personally can't figure out how to make full use of the OP quirk, the OP quirk is okay? What?

I take it you don't own the GI. Try it, then have an opinion that it's OP.

[ShinobiHunter]

Stalkers don't need any help with quirks, IMO. They could probably have most removed and would still be fine. Thunderbolts need toned down a bit, especially the MPL version. Grid Iron gauss cooldown is silly fast, that needs toned down some and if needed, give it other quirks. Wolverine 6R and 6K need cooldown quirks dialed back quite a bit, and add armor buffs if needed. Dragon AC/5 quirks definitely need to be fixed. Again, find some other way to make it useful, without giving it ridiculous quirks on one weapon. Whoever decided to give the FS9's positive quirks needs to have their head checked lol.

[YueFei]

The Hunchback-4SP's SRM6 cooldown quirk is probably overboard.

What might be more reasonable is to quirk the 4SP's missile spread to reduce it. Change the cooldown to just 20% missile cooldown reduction, don't make any SRM6-specific cooldown quirk, but just add a quirk for 20% spread reduction for all SRM launchers.

Edited by YueFei, 17 May 2015 - 11:15 AM.

[Kiiyor]

Telmasa, on 17 May 2015 - 09:10 AM, said:

Completely untrue. You can put the same exact loadout on my Shadowhawk, suffering all the same consequences and trade-offs, yet I get NOTHING in the form of quirked superpowers for it. Tell me how that's fair? (And how I still can do perfectly fine in said Shadowhawk?)

JumpJets.

The SHawk also has better hitboxes than the HunchBack. It's far easier to protect your ballistics in a SHawk than it is to stop your gigantic hump from becoming extinct on the GI.

[Telmasa]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 17 May 2015 - 10:09 AM, said:

The fact that you felt personally insulted by statement is a testament to how truly butthurt you are about it :^)

Personally insulted? Again, get real.

Also your .gif was about 1/10 on the meme scale, please try again.

Duke Nedo, on 17 May 2015 - 10:28 AM, said:

I take it you don't own the GI. Try it, then have an opinion that it's OP.

Dude, how far into denial are you willing to go here?

I have a mech that, quirks aside, is for all practical intents and purposes identical to the Grid Iron. That 5 tons on my S-hawk allows me a few JJ, 4 lasers instead of 3 and a heatsink or two to compensate that extra bit of heat. Whoopdeefrickindoo.

4 ML + Gauss, and I can rack up 600-800+ damage with it on a typical win.

If I could rock that Gauss at double rate of fire, it's very easy to imagine what would happen as a consequence of being able to rip through enemy mechs twice as fast.

Just stop with the excuses and fallacies, it's mind-numbing. Most people by now have the sense and humility to admit it for what it is, the only possible reason for you to continue with this facade is to preserve your favored gimmick toy.


Oh, but by all means, go ahead and give my Gray Death 50% cooldown on Gauss and watch what happens - I'd be laughing and rubbing it in your face at how absurdly overpowered I would become like that.

[Kiiyor]

Telmasa, on 17 May 2015 - 09:33 AM, said:

There's absolutely no excuse for the Grid Iron to get such excessive buffing in comparison. The only disadvantage it has compared to the S-hawk is the lack of jumpjets ability & being 5 tons lighter, that's it.

And that's an enormous disadvantage.

Have you played the GI? I'm not trying to provoke you, I just want to know.

I own both the GI and a battalion of SHawks, and the GI is an objectively worse performer than all of them.

Actually, you can have your GI nerfs, if you want. I'd rather drop in a hawk anyways.

[Telmasa]

Kiiyor, on 17 May 2015 - 02:02 PM, said:

JumpJets.
The SHawk also has better hitboxes than the HunchBack. It's far easier to protect your ballistics in a SHawk than it is to stop your gigantic hump from becoming extinct on the GI.

Jumpjets do not equate to a 50% DPS advantage. Not even remotely close.

Also not true that the S-hawk has better hitboxes. It has square hitboxes, ones that are very easily exploited by anybody with half a clue how to aim. Given the need to track an enemy thanks to charge time, you can't twist & shout like a pulse/SRM or AC S-hawk might.

Meanwhile the Grid Iron gets armor & structure buffs, especially for the right torso, up the wazoo in additon to the obscene 50% cooldown.

If you're trying to sell me on the quirks being "fair" for my Shadowhawk you're trying to climb a steep slippery slope, dude. Every game I've played since the quirkening in my Shadowhawk against a Grid Iron has been a decidedly one-sided affair where the only possible way I could succeed is through excessive amounts of effort and struggle to overcome the cheesy easy-mode gimmick that is the Grid Iron.

Enough is enough.

[Telmasa]

Kiiyor, on 17 May 2015 - 02:06 PM, said:

And that's an enormous disadvantage.
Have you played the GI? I'm not trying to provoke you, I just want to know.
I own both the GI and a battalion of SHawks, and the GI is an objectively worse performer than all of them.
Actually, you can have your GI nerfs, if you want. I'd rather drop in a hawk anyways.

Already responded to this a post back.

I don't need to play the GI when I've played identical builds in non-quirked mechs, on top of spectating Grid Iron pilots & witnessing Grid Irons singlehandedly out-trade fully armored ASSAULT mechs in a brawl.

(And I've mastered Hunchbacks, and it can use XL perfectly fine, so you can't tell me jack about 'weaknesses' compared to the Shadowhawk. Its hitboxes smaller and more compact in every way.)

But sure, who cares about balance as long as you can exploit the gimmick right?

Edited by Telmasa, 17 May 2015 - 02:16 PM.

[Yokaiko]

Telmasa, on 17 May 2015 - 02:13 PM, said:

(And I've mastered Hunchbacks, and it can use XL perfectly fine, so you can't tell me jack about 'weaknesses' compared to the Shadowhawk. Its hitboxes smaller and more compact in every way.)

A GI took down a fresh...even relatively fresh assault brawling? Was it an XL LRM Stalker, because the GI isn't close to all that, I like the -4G a LOT better and you still don't take an assault that is paying attention, you slip out from behind a building and stab it in the back, that applies to any mech.

[Kiiyor]

Telmasa, on 17 May 2015 - 02:09 PM, said:

Jumpjets do not equate to a 50% DPS advantage. Not even remotely close.

Also not true that the S-hawk has better hitboxes. It has square hitboxes, ones that are very easily exploited by anybody with half a clue how to aim. Given the need to track an enemy thanks to charge time, you can't twist & shout like a pulse/SRM or AC S-hawk might.

Meanwhile the Grid Iron gets armor & structure buffs, especially for the right torso, up the wazoo in additon to the obscene 50% cooldown.

Ok, I you lost me with the bit about the hitboxes, heh.



There aren't even alternate dimensions where that ^^, is better than this:



I get it. The quirks look insane on paper. They do. It's just that what's written doesn't meet with reality - in my experience anyway (and it's admittedly a sentiment that seems to run through the forums). The SHawk has better design, mobility, and is far more usable than the GI. Despite carrying Gauss, The GI is a DPS build, and a fragile one at that. There's just no place in the current MWO meta for DPS builds, aside from getting lucky in the PUG queues.

[Templar Dane]

Deathlike, on 17 May 2015 - 04:59 AM, said:

Technically there really aren't any.

Look at what a somewhat restricted dropdeck of all weight classes (can choose from either Clan or IS) and you can determine easily that 3 Clan mechs fill the top tier easily (Dire Wolf, Timberwolf, Stormcrow) with the IS has 1 (Firestarter).

By comparison, many other IS Lights are still inferior to the current Firestarter (this will change a little, but not by much), and ultimately it's not like PGI is capable of using the nerfhammer properly.

WTF is this diatribe? The reason you don't see other mechs in clan dropdecks is because they blow.

Timberwolf, Stormcrow, Hellbringer. Dire Wolf doesn't count because it's too heavy, the clan lights suck so hard you are best avoiding them.

It's not just that the other mechs suck (and a lot of them suck pretty hard), it's also that there is a smaller pool of mechs to work with and the tonnage those mechs are at.

You can do 4x Mad Dog like me and be gimped, or you can pick 4 good mechs (mechs that have ferro AND endo) that can actually bring some decent weapons to the battle.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Alistair Winter, on 17 May 2015 - 01:44 AM, said:

The consensus seems to be that the Timber Wolf and Stormcrow were nerfed too hard. Not because they're terrible compared to other clan mechs, but because the Inner Sphere is going to steamroll the Clans in CW.

So what Inner Sphere mechs would need to be nerfed in order to keep things even?

Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that PGI is now going to nerf the top mechs instead of just buffing the underpowered mechs. Let's also assume that the TBR and SCR are now just where PGI wants them, so there's no point in talking about reverting the changes in the coming patch.

What Inner Sphere mechs need to be nerfed harder just to make things even between factions? Thunderbolts? Stalkers? Firestarters? Clan players, which Inner Sphere mechs are you most worried will dominate in CW now?

What consensus?

Has anyone had a chance to try any of these mechs out live? Considering how dominant they have been up to this point, and considering how trivial many of the nerfs are, it hardly seems like it's worth declaring some mythical "consensus" about the impact of the quirks on either their individual viability or Clan v IS CW balance.