94 replies to this topic

[STEF_]

FupDup, on 18 May 2015 - 11:16 AM, said:

Light Gauss has the same tonnage as the Clan regular Gauss. :\

yea... but I used them in the mix tech mw4... because of 2 slot each instead of 3.

(but it was 15 years ago, so I can be wrong.
Never mind, anyway, in mwo will never happen)

[lshtaria]

MixTech simply cannot work due to the reduced tonnage and crit slot requirements on the clan tech. This has been "balanced" for clan omnis due to locked engines and endo/ff crits so that for the most part they can mount "equal" firepower to IS mechs. Of course it's not completely balanced but that's the general reason behind it all.

Allowing IS mechs to mount clan tech will give them more free tonnage and crit slots to play with. This won't necessarily increase their firepower per se but it will allow bigger engines, more ammo and misc equipment.

However I'm still against it, big time. It's just another can of balancing worms waiting to explode over your face.

[CDLord HHGD]

FupDup, on 18 May 2015 - 11:16 AM, said:

Light Gauss has the same tonnage as the Clan regular Gauss. :\

This along the same lines as flammable and inflammable meaning the same thing? O.o

[Sundervine]

Mix tech could mean so many things when it comes out. If they keep nerfing the clans like they are, they will no longer have the superior chassis they have now. IS chassis will be all that is driven if the current trend continues.

Superior chassis to me equals Customized loadouts, plus endoand FF at +2 crit slots over IS endo and a FF almost as good as Endo in the first place, as well as superior Xl engines, means superior, chassis. If they make mixed tech they will supposedly allow these to be changed. If not then the only clan mechs used will be the min maxed chassis. AKA those with all the goodies, and right engine. Add IS pinpoint to that mix with clan secondary weapons, and you have a monster. If this happens you will only see IS mechs in people who want to suffer.

However they could fix all this by giving any mix tech item a base quirk on any given mechs. Making some better at mixed tech than others. The quirk would be something along the lines of the following:

IS mech, Clan tech: +10% laser duration, heat generation, recycle rate. Do the same for clans and this would make mixed tech actually doable without much of a change. Otherwise it will be clan gauss, clan PPC, clan LRMs, IS ballistics, base lasers or pulses. Imagine a world of Clan Gauss, +ppcs on IS mechs without the negative quirks, or dual IS basslitics and dual clan guass on a direwolf. We shall have so much fun then. OR a Timberwolf with dual IS UAC5's and clan gauss. We will have such fun with that!

[Tapdancing Kerensky]

How dare those filthy IS mech using peasants get access to the wholly superior clan tech I use as a crutch?

How dare they!

-People who don't see mixtech as a good thing

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 18 May 2015 - 09:26 AM, said:

...Which is why Mixtech should simply never happen. Forcing each faction to stay technologically isolated makes the balancing process WAY easier because we can use both direct and less direct/sneaky methods of evening things out. But let them combine, and you'll be able to grab the best from one side and the best from the other, while bypassing the weaknesses of both.

I would prefer it so, but you and I know, it will not be.

FupDup, on 18 May 2015 - 11:16 AM, said:

Light Gauss has the same tonnage as the Clan regular Gauss. :\

for better range, but 2/3 the damage. EW.

[Bilbo]

DancingShade, on 18 May 2015 - 01:16 PM, said:

How dare those filthy IS mech using peasants get access to the wholly superior clan tech I use as a crutch?

How dare they!

-People who don't see mixtech as a good thing

I rarely pilot Clan mechs because I don't care for the way the arms work on the vast majority of them. I can still see how broken balance will be if mixtech were allowed.

[Tapdancing Kerensky]

Bilbo, on 18 May 2015 - 01:20 PM, said:

I rarely pilot Clan mechs because I don't care for the way the arms work on the vast majority of them. I can still see how broken balance will be if mixtech were allowed.

You realize that when they do mixtech they'll remove all those nice positive IS mech quirks right?

[Bishop Steiner]

Wintersdark, on 18 May 2015 - 10:08 AM, said:

Mixtech depends on whether quirks are tech specific or not

As things stand, for example, clan gauss is objectively superior to IS gauss. Until you put that gauss rifile on any IS mech, and it magically gets better. In practice, on every single IS mech, gauss has better stats than the clan version.

Quirks have then forced them to avoid mixtech. Quirks allow rough balance between chassis and between factions, but going to mixtech totally destroys that. Imagine a Grid Iron getting its quirked Gauss *and* saving a couple tons/slots in the process? Or even a JM6?

As things stand, the quirk disparity (very roughly) compensates for the tonnage disparity between the chassis.

I don't see a way forward with mixtech without totally overhauling weapon stats AND quirks.

Actually, not entirely true. in many cases the "7.5%" better range...are you really arguing that's a 3 ton advantage? REALLY? You can rail against the IS Quirks all you want, and in some cases be justified, but the reasons Clan Get less on avg, is because despite all the Customization QQ, and crappy UACs, the Clan Tech is still BETTER on avg.

And also as Quirks make their rounds through the clans, even less so. Which is why basing stats off the Quirks is still a fallacious argument, as the degree or even existence of quirks varies entirely from mech to mech.

[Bilbo]

DancingShade, on 18 May 2015 - 01:28 PM, said:

You realize that when they do mixtech they'll remove all those nice positive IS mech quirks right?

You realize I never thought the quirks were necessary right?

[Bishop Steiner]

DancingShade, on 18 May 2015 - 01:28 PM, said:

You realize that when they do mixtech they'll remove all those nice positive IS mech quirks right?

and? Balance was broken long before Quirks.

[Moldur]

Wouldn't it lower QQ because everyone has equal access to the same equipment..

[Bilbo]

Moldur, on 18 May 2015 - 01:31 PM, said:

Wouldn't it lower QQ because everyone has equal access to the same equipment..

Probably not, if everyone has to pilot a very specific set of mechs outfitted in a very specific way.

[aniviron]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 May 2015 - 07:23 AM, said:

Missiles:

-Clan SRMs vs IS SRMs: 100% pure Upgrade

Factually incorrect. IS SRMs do 2.15 damage/missile, clan SRMs do 2.0 damage/missile. If the limiting factor is tonnage (ADR-D vs Oxide) then clan SRMs are better. If the limiting factor is hardpoints (Stormcrow vs Griffin) then IS SRMs are superior.

[Bishop Steiner]

aniviron, on 18 May 2015 - 01:34 PM, said:

Factually incorrect. IS SRMs do 2.15 damage/missile, clan SRMs do 2.0 damage/missile. If the limiting factor is tonnage (ADR-D vs Oxide) then clan SRMs are better. If the limiting factor is hardpoints (Stormcrow vs Griffin) then IS SRMs are superior.

You are right, it's not 100% upgrade, I forgot about that massive .075% damage boost. For half the weight, and an SRM6 that takes up 1 less crit. Fixed in OP.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 18 May 2015 - 01:39 PM.

[topgun505]

If they have any sense at all they will never do it. There is hardly any in lore in the first place. Across the entire CBT timeline and the 5000+ mechs and variants in existence there are less than 200 mechs that have ever had mixed tech so it was pretty rare.

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 May 2015 - 01:18 PM, said:

for better range, but 2/3 the damage. EW.

Actually it was only a little bit over half damage. 8 damage to be exact. In exchange for -7 damage, you get +90m range.

Edited by FupDup, 18 May 2015 - 01:43 PM.

[Divine Retribution]

I don't see much of a point to the thread. If mixtech comes it will likely be a long way down the line. We have no way of knowing the state of the game at that time. Everything could be shooting gummy bears by then; gummy balance could be perfect. I doubt many of the forum warriors... errr current players, will still be hanging around at that time.

Even the factions won't be the same. To also throw out random speculation that I'll likely never see but may help to feed forum warriors, in 3103 the Rasalhague Domionion if founded. Mixtech after that is irrelevant.

Edited by Divine Retribution, 18 May 2015 - 01:44 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

topgun505, on 18 May 2015 - 01:41 PM, said:

If they have any sense at all they will never do it. There is hardly any in lore in the first place. Across the entire CBT timeline and the 5000+ mechs and variants in existence there are less than 200 mechs that have ever had mixed tech so it was pretty rare.

factory mixtech. Also the "Played" CBT Timeline covers about 1 century, give or take, battlemechs, all 5000 of them have been getting built for over 600 years, and only the last 70, of Lore was mixtech even a possibility. Perhaps if you narrow your parameters down to mechs designed and built after 3060, you might find things a little more surprising for that 11% of lore mech history mixtech was even possible.

Would be rather like noting that radar and guided missiles were only used on a small percentage of planes because WWI and WWII planes mounted neither.

FupDup, on 18 May 2015 - 01:43 PM, said:

Actually it was only a little bit over half damage. 8 damage to be exact. In exchange for -7 damage, you get +90m range.

meh, bad design is bad design. And it ain't like Gauss needs more range in MWO.

[FupDup]

The only kind of mixtech I would tolerate would be something like where some Omnimechs have hardwired mixed components. For example, this little Wulfen from 3137.


http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Wulfen

It's mostly a Clan Omnimech, except for sneaking in IS XL Gyro and IS Stealth Armor.

Edited by FupDup, 18 May 2015 - 01:49 PM.