172 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Mirkk Defwode, on 18 May 2015 - 08:25 AM, said:

True, but the goal for game development - all game development - should be to please the fanbase to some degree. So they've taken a franchise with a rabid fanbase and changed some of the core tenants in a way that those fans disapprove of. There needs to be some sort of exchange to help alleviate the criticism.

Hell you look at FF14 they had so much criticism they literally shut the game down after 2 months, spent 9 months revamping systems then did a whole re-launch of the title as the 'Reborn' title.

Yes. But to what degree? And Which Fans? cause to please Group A the developer will likely piss off group B. And Group C will be upset cause their concerns weren't addressed but Group A's were so they quit!

Also FF games started to suck after 11. I tried 13... It was beautiful... but the story did not grab me.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 18 May 2015 - 08:30 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Night Thastus, on 18 May 2015 - 08:16 AM, said:

Whoah. No need to get so worked up. I was trying to bring out a possible solution that fixes nearly everything. Why can't it happen? Yes, it's a gigantic change, but it'd fix nearly everything that's wrong. It's not like what I'm suggesting is a new game engine. It's not beyond the laws of possible. Hell, I'd pay money towards them if I knew it was going to fund a change like that.

"WISHING FOR AVALON IS POINTLESS." What is Avalon?

Nick86, on 18 May 2015 - 08:22 AM, said:

Bishop, I don't agree with Night Thastus' ideas BUT PGI does have to do something radical.. I don't know if endo/ferro for other clan mechs is too out there but what do you guys think?

I don't even disagree with his idea, in itself. I just get tired of people throwing out stuff constantly that we realistically know won't happen, because it obfuscates conversation pointed at aspects we might realistically GET change made in.

Thus it's not only off topic for this Post, but it is actually potentially deleterious to it as it distracts from looking at the issues we might actually be able to see addressed.

Thus my irritation. When Posts get derailed and sidetracked, and filled with what is, in respect to the OP, detritus (even if an otherwise valid conversation, but in this instance out of context) then the Devs are even less likely to bother reading it.

[DONTOR]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 May 2015 - 07:44 AM, said:

But they should have hit the Agility and maybe removed the Speed Tweak bonus from the chassis, instead of this. (Of course, I have been cussed at for saying this for over 6 months..

NO. Victor had its aglity nerfed, and that absolutely ruined it. These nerfs arent all that bad they hit the laser vomit right in the tender spot, but allow other more diverese builds to flourish. Removing speed tweak??? Not only will that NEVER happen, but its a terrible idea...

[Triordinant]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 May 2015 - 08:26 AM, said:

Whatever the 2nd Edition world was

That space fairing D&D game

The Forgotten Realms and Spelljammer.

[Bishop Steiner]

DONTOR, on 18 May 2015 - 08:35 AM, said:

NO. Victor had its aglity nerfed, and that absolutely ruined it. These nerfs arent all that bad they hit the laser vomit right in the tender spot, but allow other more diverese builds to flourish. Removing speed tweak??? Not only will that NEVER happen, but its a terrible idea...

That's because it wa OVERNERFED Don.

One doesn't have to swing diametrically to either extreme,. in fact, the ideal is to not do so at all.

And Also, in the case of the VTR, the agility didn't even address the actual issue (poptarting), whereas, agility is one of the few things besides stupid level weapon nerfs that can be addressed in the TBR and SCR

[meteorol]

Nick86, on 18 May 2015 - 08:14 AM, said:

Russ.. PLEASE listen to those who play both and don't whine.

So he should listen to like... 10 people on this forum?
Discussion about balance always derail after like 2 pages, because waaaaaay to many people posting here are taking CW too serious or have some other penchant towards a faction. They make a lot of balance post without actually caring for balance.

If you say something like "i think the TW needs to be balanced" and you have a IS faction tag you will have like 20 people jumping you "YEAH IS GUYS WANT CLANS TO BE NURFED, BUT MUH CW, BUT MUH FACTION"

It's just way above a lot of peoples heads that having a faction tag of a certain faction doesn't mean you are on a crusade against the other faction. Many people couldn't care less on which faction they are, they are just factionhopping for mechbays or don't play the precious CW at all.

Just for the record, i own 4 of 5 mechs that will be rebalanced. Because i don't care for factions and just use whatever is best.
Right now i'm wolf, before tukkayid i was FRR. If i had created a thread "TW needs to be rebalanced" when i was FRR just few weeks ago, i'd guess probably 40% of the posters would have been like "YEAH IS CRYBABY WANTS CLAN TO BE NERFED, BUT I JUST LOST A GAME OF CW AND ACTUALLY IS MECHS ARE OP!"

As long as someone can't make a post regarding balance without getting attacked from all sides because of the goddamn faction tag he has those discussions will lead nowhere.

[Phlinger]

All I can hope for at this time is that this nerfing is actually the first step to actually reducing the power levels of the quirks. Time will tell I guess.

Here's for hoping Russ has a plan of attack and isn't just winging this ****.

[kapusta11]

Mechs themselves are fine. TBR and SCR are just happened to come optimized stock just like Cauldron Born, Arctic Cheetah, Huntsman, Night Gyr, ALL Clan BattleMechs (non Omnis) including Stone Rhino and Kodiak, lots of them.

Clan TECH is OP and thus is a root of a problem

CXL engines are better, endo steel and ferro fibrous upgrades are better, DHS take only 2 crits, Gauss is 3 tons lighter, lasers (to some extent) are better as well, SRMs (not a fan of them though) are lighter. UACs? They are still good against slow targets and there is no mech with enough pod space to carry them efficiently yet, Night Gyr is the next most timeline appropriate mech however and it can carry 4xUAC5 with 10 tons of ammo. UAC20 is garbage, that is true, too high delay between shots. UAC5 and UAC10 are decent. LRMs are bad but you can carry a lot of them and little to no one uses AMS.

Min-maxed Clan mech > min-maxed IS mech

Some of Clan mechs can't be min-maxed because of fixed equipment

The solution is obvious.

So yeah, apparently I'm an idiot.

Edited by kapusta11, 18 May 2015 - 09:08 AM.

[EvilCow]

Edit: Removed pointless sarcasm.

Edited by EvilCow, 18 May 2015 - 10:18 AM.

[lsp]

All I wanted changed is the Stormcrows hitboxes, and maybe it's torso twist . And the firestarters hitboxes.

[Nick86]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 May 2015 - 08:30 AM, said:

I don't even disagree with his idea, in itself. I just get tired of people throwing out stuff constantly that we realistically know won't happen, because it obfuscates conversation pointed at aspects we might realistically GET change made in.

Thus it's not only off topic for this Post, but it is actually potentially deleterious to it as it distracts from looking at the issues we might actually be able to see addressed.

Thus my irritation. When Posts get derailed and sidetracked, and filled with what is, in respect to the OP, detritus (even if an otherwise valid conversation, but in this instance out of context) then the Devs are even less likely to bother reading it.

Fair enough. I hope they do listen to you and Kristian to the extent that I put. Ultimately I think PGI are too detatched from the fan base and I can't blame them with some of the stuff that's said on here but I just can't see why the lesser clan mechs haven't had core upgrades relative to the top two. I would say give them the upgrades then tone them down to suit if necessary after another tukkayid-like event or general prolonged data capture.

[Joseph Mallan]

meteorol, on 18 May 2015 - 08:37 AM, said:

So he should listen to like... 10 people on this forum?

Could you imagine the vitriol if PGI took my advice?

[MeiSooHaityu]

I think Bishop has pretty much nailed it.

I do think it is a bit early on calling the TW and SCR over nerfed and even...dead. That strikes me as nothing more than drama. I say, let's see how the nerf plays out, if it is too severe, let's push for a bit of relief.

Yea, the top over quirked IS mechs probably should have been trimmed more.

I do think the timing of the nerfs was the biggest issue. If you're going to nerf the 2 most overpowered clan mechs in the game when it comes to energy, have a revamped ballistic buff to go with it. If the ballistics are much improved, it would have lessened the blow.

Also, I do have the feeling as well that the TW should have had more agility nerfing vs firepower. The energy nerf works for the SCR, but not a 75 ton mech. Then again, maybe both needed some agility nerfing instead.

[Nick86]

kapusta11, on 18 May 2015 - 08:40 AM, said:

Mechs themselves are fine. TBR and SCR are just happened to come optimized stock, and there are tons more to come.

Clan TECH is OP and thus is a root of a problem

CXL engines are better, endo steel and ferro fibrous upgrades are better, DHS take only 2 crits, Gauss is 3 tons lighter, lasers (to some extent) are better as well, SRMs (not a fan of them though) are lighter. UACs? They are still good against slow targets and there is no mech with enough pod space to carry them efficiently yet, Night Gyr is the next most timeline appropriate mech however and it can carry 4xUAC5 with 10 tons of ammo. UAC20 is garbage, that is true, too high delay between shots. UAC5 and UAC10 are decent. LRMs are bad but you can carry a lot of them and little to no one uses AMS.

Min-maxed Clan mech > min-maxed IS mech

Some of Clan mechs can't be min-maxed because of fixed equipment

The solution is obvious.

I would love to see IS DHS take only 2 slots and bring in light fusion engines which someone informed me about a month ago..

[DaZur]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 May 2015 - 08:48 AM, said:

Could you imagine the vitriol if PGI took my advice?

Giving mech "bouncy boobs" is not a serious quirk suggestion...

[Lugin]

An idea: Use the Omnipod set bonus to reduce/mitigate the negative quirks on the pods.
Pods all match? Reduced/eliminated negative quirks!
Mix and match? Get the full/proportional negative quirks.

Edited by Lugin, 18 May 2015 - 09:01 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ronyn, on 18 May 2015 - 08:39 AM, said:

All I can hope for at this time is that this nerfing is actually the first step to actually reducing the power levels of the quirks. Time will tell I guess.

Here's for hoping Russ has a plan of attack and isn't just winging this ****.

fully agree with this. Quirks should never be a defining trait of the game. To augment, and supplement, where an otherwise unavoidable balance weakness is found, or in some cases, to define character or a singular attribute of a chassis, is fine. But even my beloved HBKs could survive their weapons being reduced, at least a bit, IMO (if likewise other mechs were also reduced similarly)

Lugin, on 18 May 2015 - 09:00 AM, said:

An idea: Use the Omnipod set bonus to reduce/mitigate the negative quirks on the pods.
Pods all match? Reduced/eliminated negative quirks!
Mix and match? Get the full/proportional negative quirks.

Interesting idea. Might take a bit of work, but it's an interesting idea that might work well. Have to give it some thought. But it's similar to the idea of Stck Mech Quirks for the IS. I like it in principle, anyhow.

meteorol, on 18 May 2015 - 08:37 AM, said:

As long as someone can't make a post regarding balance without getting attacked from all sides because of the goddamn faction tag he has those discussions will lead nowhere.

Sadly, this is true.

[Kain Demos]

Ronyn, on 18 May 2015 - 08:39 AM, said:

All I can hope for at this time is that this nerfing is actually the first step to actually reducing the power levels of the quirks. Time will tell I guess.

Here's for hoping Russ has a plan of attack and isn't just winging this ****.

LOL. Based on past moves which do you think it really is?

[Bishop Steiner]

Kain Thul, on 18 May 2015 - 09:07 AM, said:

LOL. Based on past moves which do you think it really is?

You want to rant and rave, that is fine, but if you are not going to be constructive, kindly don't spam my post? It's somewhat rude.

[Kain Demos]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 May 2015 - 09:09 AM, said:

You want to rant and rave, that is fine, but if you are not going to be constructive, kindly don't spam my post? It's somewhat rude.

So, based on every past "balance decision" they've made collectively (both Russ and Paul) which do you think they are doing? He said he hopes they have a plan and aren't simply winging it---everything that they have ever done seems like the latter to me.