175 replies to this topic

[IraqiWalker]

SKINLESS, on 27 May 2015 - 06:20 AM, said:

Well Iraqi, the point of the post is 2 of the 3 mechs worth playing in wave 1 are now nerfed. If they make it 3 for 3 It's time to cut losses and move on.

There's a difference between "nerfed", and being weak. Even with these weak "nerfs" the TBR, and the SCR are STILL the BEST MECHS IN THE GAME.

They are still at the top of the foodchain. I don't see why people are complaining. Go to your mechlab, and look at the Victor, and Highlander. THOSE are actually nerfed mechs. Over the past 6 months, I've seen all of 8 HGNs, and VTRs. 3 of which this past week.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 27 May 2015 - 08:14 AM.

[Tesunie]

SKINLESS, on 27 May 2015 - 06:20 AM, said:

Well Iraqi, the point of the post is 2 of the 3 mechs worth playing in wave 1 are now nerfed. If they make it 3 for 3 It's time to cut losses and move on.

Wait. Hold on a moment. You paid $240 for just the Timberwolf, Stormcrow AND the Direwolf? Didn't that preorder pack come with, you know, some other mechs?

I didn't spend any money on clan mechs, and I'll just say that my Thors are doing great by the way. I don't see any problem with the Thor Chassis. Nor have I noticed any problems with the (for the most part stock trial) Kitfox (C and prime).

For the record, I even still see the Timberwolf and Stormcrow, set up with all energy (packed and crammed full of pure energy weapons too), and they still seem to be doing great. And I still see them every match I play, at least one on each team, if not more. Every match.

(Now. I'm not saying if the nerfs were too much or not, I'm just saying they appear to be still viable, and that other clan mechs do still work perfectly fine.)

Edited by Tesunie, 27 May 2015 - 08:00 AM.

[BARBAR0SSA]

Tesunie, on 27 May 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

Wait. Hold on a moment. You paid $240 for just the Timberwolf, Stormcrow AND the Direwolf? Didn't that preorder pack come with, you know, some other mechs?

I didn't spend any money on clan mechs, and I'll just say that my Thors are doing great by the way. I don't see any problem with the Thor Chassis. Nor have I noticed any problems with the (for the most part stock trial) Kitfox (C and prime).

For the record, I even still see the Timberwolf and Stormcrow, set up with all energy (packed and crammed full of pure energy weapons too), and they still seem to be doing great. And I still see them every match I play, at least one on each team, if not more. Every match.

(Now. I'm not saying if the nerfs were too much or not, I'm just saying they appear to be still viable, and that other clan mechs do still work perfectly fine.)

Yeah they sucked

glad I read this post though, I just asked for a wave 3 refund after realizing how much I spent on wave 1...I mean seriously if someone drops $240 on your game to support it...give them all future packs for free or a steep discount!

[IraqiWalker]

shad0w4life, on 27 May 2015 - 08:21 AM, said:

Yeah they sucked

glad I read this post though, I just asked for a wave 3 refund after realizing how much I spent on wave 1...I mean seriously if someone drops $240 on your game to support it...give them all future packs for free or a steep discount!

That's not how the transaction system of this business model works. Simple as that.

[Tesunie]

shad0w4life, on 27 May 2015 - 08:21 AM, said:

Yeah they sucked

Really? Or are they just "not as good" as the Timberwolf, Stormcrow and Direwolf in comparison?

I've been running Thors few a while now. I've been doing great in them. Don't honestly see what your problem with them are.

[IraqiWalker]

Tesunie, on 27 May 2015 - 08:35 AM, said:

Really? Or are they just "not as good" as the Timberwolf, Stormcrow and Direwolf in comparison?

I've been running Thors few a while now. I've been doing great in them. Don't honestly see what your problem with them are.

Started running my Novas again, My prime with 6 SLs, and 6 MLs tears through most things like a PPC through butter. Yesterday had two games where I took down 5 or so mechs by myself. Lightest of which was a Hunchback G. The rest were mostly heavies and assaults.

[BARBAR0SSA]

Tesunie, on 27 May 2015 - 08:35 AM, said:

Really? Or are they just "not as good" as the Timberwolf, Stormcrow and Direwolf in comparison?

I've been running Thors few a while now. I've been doing great in them. Don't honestly see what your problem with them are.

Nova if you're defending in CW with an SPL build can be good, but attacking with it, not so much.

Summoner if it's a peek a boo CW match can do ok if it's equipped for long range, brawling it gets its arse handed to it

Kitfox was meh, can do some decent damage if it's a long range fest forced JJs as well

Adder was super bad until heat quirk as up close it would get shredded fast and trying to long range would incur a lot of heat penalties. Now it's OK if you're on Boreal playing sniper trade game or light hunter SSRM boat.

Warhawk isn't too bad though, I'd bring it more in CW readily if there were better light mechs for clans, currently you kind of gimp your deck by bringing it as you need to bring a light mech.

Solo pub queue 12 v 12 any of these mechs can have a good match, but most of the time they will be meh.

[Tesunie]

IraqiWalker, on 27 May 2015 - 08:30 AM, said:

That's not how the transaction system of this business model works. Simple as that.

I think that's how basically any business works. I don't see Pepsi giving me a life time of free drinks because I paid for one bottle, or one case. Same here. Just because people paid $30 for each set of mechs doesn't mean they should get all future mechs for free. It was rather clear on the price.

[IraqiWalker]

shad0w4life, on 27 May 2015 - 08:21 AM, said:

Yeah they sucked

glad I read this post though, I just asked for a wave 3 refund after realizing how much I spent on wave 1...I mean seriously if someone drops $240 on your game to support it...give them all future packs for free or a steep discount!

Tesunie, on 27 May 2015 - 09:03 AM, said:

I think that's how basically any business works. I don't see Pepsi giving me a life time of free drinks because I paid for one bottle, or one case. Same here. Just because people paid $30 for each set of mechs doesn't mean they should get all future mechs for free. It was rather clear on the price.

Also, unlike games you regularly purchase, development has not ceased on this one. So there's an ongoing overhead.

[Borson]

I understand SCRs were OP, but over 30% damage nurf is a bit absurd. (Based on 7x Med Laser non SCR-A).
Cooldown doesn't start until duration is finished, right? Making the effect cumulative regarding total damage.

Edited by Borson, 28 May 2015 - 04:53 AM.

[Tesunie]

Borson, on 27 May 2015 - 09:51 AM, said:

I understand SCRs were OP, but over 30% damage nurf is a bit absurd. (Based on 7x Med Laser non SCR-A).
Cooldown doesn't start until duration is finished, right? Making the effect cumulative regarding total damage.

Think of it this way, it also reduces your total HPS (heat per second) as well, which can also be helpful. And, I am not sure that it's exactly a 30% damage nerf. I think it's lower than that. (Too lazy at this moment to do the math to confirm though. Sorry.)

[K1ttykat]

Borson, on 27 May 2015 - 09:51 AM, said:

I understand SCRs were OP, but over 30% damage nurf is a bit absurd. (Based on 7x Med Laser non SCR-A).
Cooldown doesn't start until duration is finished, right? Making the effect cumulative regarding total damage.

Its actually a 21% reduction in DPS for the SCR

More importantly, DPS is not really a factor when it comes to clan lasers. They run so hot that they are rarely fired on cool down. Clan lasers are all about the ridiculous alpha damage they do, something they're trying to balance out with duration. The reduced DPS may help an IS mech trade well once its in range but with clan speed it shouldn't be too much of an issue.

[Naduk]

Cmdr Killian, on 20 May 2015 - 02:53 AM, said:

Its pretty much accepted that the ONLY advantage clan mechs have over InnerSphere mechs are their lasers. It seems like each patch, more and more of the reasons to *OWN* clan mechs are removed.

Clan XL engine requires both side torso destruction before failure
IS XL engine requires destruction of one side torso before failure


IS FERRO FIBROUS ARMOR
12% more protection per ton, occupies 14 critical slots but weighs less.
CLAN FERRO FIBROUS ARMOR
20% more protection per ton, occupies 7 critical slots but weighs less.


IS ENDO-STEEL STRUCTURE
5% of the 'Mech’s maximum tonnage but occupies 14 critical slots.
CLAN ENDO-STEEL STRUCTURE
5% of the 'Mech’s maximum tonnage but occupies 7 critical slots.

IS DOUBLE HEAT SINK
40% better 3 slots
Clan DOUBLE HEAT SINK
40% better 2 slots

weapons (listed major differences, stats close enough not listed)

CLAN LRM no min range
IS LRM min range 180m
LRM 20 10tons 5slots vs CLRM 20 5tons 4slots
LRM 10 5tons 2slots vs CLRM 10 2.5tons 1slot
ect

SRM6 3tons 2slots
CSRM6 1.5tons 1slot
IS Stream SRM4,6 NA
C-STREAK SRM 6 3tons 2slots (so a regular IS SRM with free lock on)
ect

NARC 3tons 2slots
Cnarc 2tons 1slot

AC20 14tons 10slots 270range
Cac20 12tons 9slots 360range

AC10 12tons 7slots 450range
Cac10 10tons 5slots 540range

lbx2,5,20 NA
lbx10 11tons 6slots
cblx20 12tons 9slots (lol doube damage for 1ton and 3 slots, if is ever get the gun it wont be that good)

uac5 9tons 5slots
cuac5 7tons 3slots

ERPPC 7tons 3slots 10damage 15heat
CERPPC 6tons 2slots 15damage with splash 15heat (more damage,smaller,lighter zero negatives for those gains)

IS Large Laser 5tons 2slots 450range 9damage 7heat
C Medium Laser 1ton 1slot 405range 7damage 6heat (um yes i would like 1ton large laser plz, what do you mean i cant have it?)
(did you know 2 clan small lasers totaling 1ton, 1slot each, 10damage 6heat is more powerful that a IS large laser doing 9damage 7heat)

please
tell me how lasers are your only benifits ? i must of missed that somewhere

if the reason you own clan mechs is to be OP, then you need to find another game
i hear world of tanks has golden ammo you might like

[Borson]

K1ttykat, on 27 May 2015 - 04:33 PM, said:

Its actually a 21% reduction in DPS for the SCR

21% Cooldown + 21% Duration means full volley takes 42% longer. That alone is a 29.5% reduction in total damage. (If you include the increased difficulty to do max damage due to increased duration, it's worse.)

(Burn then hide to cooldown is a playstyle choice...or at least was.)

30% Nurf is absurd.

Edited by Borson, 28 May 2015 - 04:53 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

Borson, on 27 May 2015 - 07:50 PM, said:

21% Cooldown + 21% Duration means full volley takes 42% longer. That alone is a 29.5% reduction in total damage. (If you include the increased difficulty to do max damage due to increased duration, it's worse.)

(Burn then hide to cooldown is a playstyle choice...or at least was.)

30% Nurf is absurd.

See, I'd believe you, if it wasn't for the fact that those mechs are still the top ones, and haven't really lost a step. If you're not running pure laservomit, your penalties are significantly below that.

[Tesunie]

Borson, on 27 May 2015 - 07:50 PM, said:

21% Cooldown + 21% Duration means full volley takes 42% longer. That alone is a 29.5% reduction in total damage. (If you include the increased difficulty to do max damage due to increased duration, it's worse.)

(Burn then hide to cooldown is a playstyle choice...or at least was.)

30% Nurf is absurd.

Actually, I think your percentages will be determined on how what omnipods you choose, how many energy hard points they have, and what exact weapon you place into said energy hard points.

Example: Place CSPLs onto your mech, and you'll hardly even notice the (0.75 duration x the proposed 15% duration nerf) 0.1125 seconds increase to duration. Nor the (2.25 cooldown x 15% cooldown nerf) 0.3375 cooldown increase. Total increase to laser times: 0.45 seconds. Add that to the current laser time of 3 seconds up to 3.45 seconds. Divide by damage of 6 to determine DPS. Original DPS is 2. The new "nerf" DPS is 1.739130434782609. This is a decrease of 0.261 damage per second.

BUT, if you place a single CERLL with that, then you end up with (1.50 duration x 15% nerf) 0.225 increase to duration and (3.25 cooldown x 15% nerf) 0.4875 cooldown increase, which is more significant. Total nerf for duration is 1.725 seconds and cooldown is 3.7375 seconds. Total original laser times was 4.75 seconds and nerf times are 5.4625. With a damage of 11, this changes total DPS from 2.316 to 2.0137. A total decrease in DPS lost is 0.3023.


This is also presuming you will hold and shoot your lasers as soon as they come off cooldown, which I find unlikely. Or, if you decide to chain fire your lasers at all times, also unlikely. Most people alpha and scoot away, or alpha and alpha and alpha and (shutdown/melt from overload).

These numbers are also presuming that you are taking a standard of 5 energy hard points total, instead of 1-3, which would then change the numbers up. And, as you can change out your hard points via omnipods (I know the Timberwolf can bring it down to just one energy hard point), you could always take a smaller amount of hard points and use CLPLs with CSRMs, CSSRMs, CLRMs or any of the CAC types. If you wish to spam 9 energy weapons, then yes, it will become more significant. Or, if you wish to cram all the energy hard point omnipods into your mech, and only use half of those hard points, then you start to needlessly hinder yourself.


The point remains, we seem to be talking about very small number changes. You also, due to omnipods, have the opportunity and ability to adjust these numbers yourself. Also, I still continue to see many energy heavy Timberwolves and Stormcrows on the battlefield. They seem to not be hindered too much by this (as it did also help reduce their HPS generated by those same weapons).


(And for the record, once again, I am not defending the nerfs, not am I against the nerfs. I just don't like all the needless and unfounded complaints about them. The exaggerated numbers are not helping much.)

[Koniving]

Idealsuspect, on 20 May 2015 - 04:34 AM, said:

IS UAC5 5 slots 9 tonns...
Clan UAC5 3 slots 7 tonns...

(Actually it is 9 tons; was thinking of the AC/5).

One thing to note: Being 5 slots, the IS UAC/5 is easier to disable than the Clan UAC/5, as more slots means it is more likely to take damage due to a higher chance on crit rolls.

Edited by Koniving, 27 May 2015 - 09:53 PM.

[Koniving]

Naduk, on 27 May 2015 - 05:34 PM, said:

CLAN LRM no min range
IS LRM min range 180m

On this:
Clan LRM at less than 90 meters is dealing less than 0.3 damage per missile (80 meters).
At 10 meters it is dealing around 0.001 damage per missile.
After 90 meters it goes gradually from 0.5 damage to full damage (at 180 meters).

[Tesunie]

Borson, on 27 May 2015 - 07:50 PM, said:

That alone is a 29.5% reduction in total damage. (If you include the increased difficulty to do max damage due to increased duration, it's worse.)

PS: If it was a 30% decrease in DPS (decrease to total damage), then it should have made (taking from the worst weapon) the CERLLs base 2.316 DPS down to (70% remain of it's damage, 30% reduced, which means multiply by 0.70 for total) 1.6212 DPS. Instead, it changed it to a (for simplicity) 2 DPS. This is about a 15% decrease in DPS. (0.15 reduction, so multiply your base of 2.316 by 0.85 (what remains). Or if you want to do it backwards, multiply 2 DPS by 1.15% to increase it back up to 2.3.)

Edit: Corrected math numbers, Apparently I thought 30%-100%=60%. No. That is only 90%.

Edited by Tesunie, 27 May 2015 - 09:35 PM.

[Idealsuspect]

Koniving, on 27 May 2015 - 08:40 PM, said:

(Actually it is 9 tons; was thinking of the AC/5).

One thing to note: Being 5 slots, the IS UAC/5 is easier to disable than the Clan UAC/5, as more slots means it is more likely to take damage due to a higher chance on crit rolls.

Yea exactly less slots means less chance on crit rolls also another fact to tend that clan UAC/5 and in fine 95% of clans weapons are better than IS weapons.