175 replies to this topic

[Borson]

The 30% nurf was based on 7 Med laser crow (as I mentioned above). My prefer build, 2 L, 4 SP laser got hit pretty hard too. Of course I just dumped the SPs for SRMs to negate much of the penalties, thus much of the old outcome.

There are certain builds that can negate much of the nurfs, making the mech still viable. However, I think they went way overboard in nurfing the energy department.

Edited by Borson, 28 May 2015 - 04:54 AM.

[Nightshade24]

Brut4ce, on 25 May 2015 - 09:27 PM, said:

Well, You Just proved it yourself there. If Every weapon is "fine" as u say, and good pilots are making effective use of them, so there is absolutely no need for any of those superquirked IS mechs or those super-nerfed clans, Because an effective pilot can have an equal chance at beating a Laser vomit Timberwolf in an LBX-srm-mg-laser Shadowhack and/or the other way around.

this is kind of an exageration.

That's like saying a 1 machine gun locust can easily kill a 5 SSRM 6 stormcrow.


Not all clan/ is mechs can do the same firepower as other mechs without any possitive counter ballancing.

For eg a nova has no ES or FF, stormcrow has the advantage hear.

Also this game is a 'rock papper scissors' but more advances.

for eg the streak crow versus an enemy light mech... but if that enemy light mech has 3 AMS + ECM the tables have turned.

[K1ttykat]

Borson, on 27 May 2015 - 07:50 PM, said:

21% Cooldown + 21% Duration means full volley takes 42% longer. That alone is a 29.5% reduction in total damage. (If you include the increased difficulty to do max damage due to increased duration, it's worse.)

(Burn then hide to cooldown is a playstyle choice...or at least was.)

30% Nurf is absurd.

Nope, that's not how math works at all.

Laser DPS is damage/(duration+cool down)

Full classic stormcrow laser omnipods give you +21% duration and +21% cooldown.

So scr laser DPS is damage/(1.21duration + 1.21cooldown)

Which is the same as damage/1.21(duration+cool down)

or 1/1.21 * damage/(duration+cool down)

or 0.826*DPS

so the final DPS is 82.6% of normal

or 17.4% less DPS (yes I said 21% less earlier but I wasn't thinking)

Edited by K1ttykat, 28 May 2015 - 03:57 AM.

[Yziel]

I played ~15 CW games during the event. I don't remember if we managed 2 or 3 wins in those, all of those with a kill difference of less than 10. The games we lost most of my team struggled to get to the 80 points needed for the unlock. I'm not sure if it's because of this patch just being the final nail in the coffin but I've completely given up on trying to play CW until at least some of the terribad Clan mechs are buffed or something. In the meantime I'm playing IS mechs in pubs and slaughtering all the whimpy Clan mechs :/

[Borson]

K1ttykat, on 28 May 2015 - 03:55 AM, said:

Nope, that's not how math works at all.

Laser DPS is damage/(duration+cool down)

Full classic stormcrow laser omnipods give you +21% duration and +21% cooldown.

So scr laser DPS is damage/(1.21duration + 1.21cooldown)

Which is the same as damage/1.21(duration+cool down)

or 1/1.21 * damage/(duration+cool down)

or 0.826*DPS

so the final DPS is 82.6% of normal

or 17.4% less DPS (yes I said 21% less earlier but I wasn't thinking)

You're right. (The error in my math assumes CD and Duration are the same).
Thanks.

[Tesunie]

Yziel, on 28 May 2015 - 04:15 AM, said:

I played ~15 CW games during the event. I don't remember if we managed 2 or 3 wins in those, all of those with a kill difference of less than 10. The games we lost most of my team struggled to get to the 80 points needed for the unlock. I'm not sure if it's because of this patch just being the final nail in the coffin but I've completely given up on trying to play CW until at least some of the terribad Clan mechs are buffed or something. In the meantime I'm playing IS mechs in pubs and slaughtering all the whimpy Clan mechs :/

I can say I had the opposite results. Out of all the matches I played, I only had three matches where I ended up below the 80 point threshold. One was "oops, the server had issues, everyone out of the pool" no match scores. The other two I ended up at 79 points. (Yes. 79 points! GAHH!) I also had a lot of good drops, and for some of them I even managed to join into a random group because of my performance in one of the matches catching their attention.

All I used was two customized Thors, a Vulture trial, and a Kitfox C Trial.

My only bane for many of those matches, if I saw an injured Thunderbolt (yellow CT internals) and I 1v1 him with my near pristine (yellow armor) Summoner, I seemed to lose every time. (Was kinda funny, but sad.) The group ended up joking about my "nemesis" the Thunderbolt for quite some time.

[IraqiWalker]

Yziel, on 28 May 2015 - 04:15 AM, said:

I played ~15 CW games during the event. I don't remember if we managed 2 or 3 wins in those, all of those with a kill difference of less than 10. The games we lost most of my team struggled to get to the 80 points needed for the unlock. I'm not sure if it's because of this patch just being the final nail in the coffin but I've completely given up on trying to play CW until at least some of the terribad Clan mechs are buffed or something. In the meantime I'm playing IS mechs in pubs and slaughtering all the whimpy Clan mechs :/

Sadly, a single player's experience is not enough of a substitute for the data of thousands of players. My 2xUAC2 KitFoX is a masterpiece of dakka that can burn through mechs like a fart through tear ducts, that doesn't mean it's gonna be the new meta for the KFX.

[Tesunie]

IraqiWalker, on 28 May 2015 - 08:47 AM, said:

Sadly, a single player's experience is not enough of a substitute for the data of thousands of players. My 2xUAC2 KitFoX is a masterpiece of dakka that can burn through mechs like a fart through tear ducts, that doesn't mean it's gonna be the new meta for the KFX.

Question: I wanted to set up dual UACs on my Kitfox (with ECM!), but I only ended up with one unlocked ballistic hardpoint in one of the torsos, with all the hard wired gear in it. I'm going to guess that you didn't create that with the S torsos? (Because when I went to do it, I noticed that CUACs of 2 took up 2 crit slots, instead of one. Then I looked at CACs and LBx, and they too took up at least 2 slots...)

Still thinking a single UAC5 mounted high in that S shoulder for range, and then pair it with some CERMLs or pulses... What would you think? (Right now I have it on an unimaginative dual CERLL build, which I don't think I'd like much.)

[IraqiWalker]

Tesunie, on 28 May 2015 - 08:52 AM, said:

Question: I wanted to set up dual UACs on my Kitfox (with ECM!), but I only ended up with one unlocked ballistic hardpoint in one of the torsos, with all the hard wired gear in it. I'm going to guess that you didn't create that with the S torsos? (Because when I went to do it, I noticed that CUACs of 2 took up 2 crit slots, instead of one. Then I looked at CACs and LBx, and they too took up at least 2 slots...)

Still thinking a single UAC5 mounted high in that S shoulder for range, and then pair it with some CERMLs or pulses... What would you think? (Right now I have it on an unimaginative dual CERLL build, which I don't think I'd like much.)

No S torsos, not if you want meaningful amounts of ammo. Both UACs are mounted in the arms. I think I had one S torso (The right one, so I could have 2 tons in each side torso). Since I do have JJs on the thing.

I've never tried the UAC 5 set up, but go for it. The ST ballistic mounts are really above the cockpit.
Also, if you get the chance, try out a 2ERPPC set up, with ECM, and some JJs. On HPG I just climb the wall, and really make the KFX live up to it's IS name (Uller the Norse god of archery)

Edited by IraqiWalker, 28 May 2015 - 09:05 AM.

[Baba Yogi]

clan mechs are both immensely powerful offensively and defensively compared to IS, they were designed that way in TT. If you get to keep that clan XL engine as it was in TT then weapons have to suffer severely to compensate though i believe they are still too powerful, devs kept the tonnage advantages of weapons, and also kept the damage /range advantage of them too. Also u get free case for ammo's including ARMS! i mean they still are very op compared to IS, even with quirks IS cant compete properly. I think they should have done assymetric warfare just put 6 clans mechs at their full power as in TT against 12 IS. I'd be ok with that. They were horribly outnumbered anyways, thats how they lost the war in the end.

[Hannibal Chow]

quirks are a totally useless idea and should have never been added to the game, I loathe them all. As for the stormcrow/ timberwolf nerfs .........

[BARBAR0SSA]

Lordhammer, on 29 May 2015 - 07:34 AM, said:

clan mechs are both immensely powerful offensively and defensively compared to IS, they were designed that way in TT. If you get to keep that clan XL engine as it was in TT then weapons have to suffer severely to compensate though i believe they are still too powerful, devs kept the tonnage advantages of weapons, and also kept the damage /range advantage of them too. Also u get free case for ammo's including ARMS! i mean they still are very op compared to IS, even with quirks IS cant compete properly. I think they should have done assymetric warfare just put 6 clans mechs at their full power as in TT against 12 IS. I'd be ok with that. They were horribly outnumbered anyways, thats how they lost the war in the end.

I'll give you free CASE if I can move hardcoded slots around, ammo explosions are a rare occurance

[Valar13]

cSand, on 23 May 2015 - 04:40 PM, said:

guy if you can't outgun an IS medium in your TBR then


nobody can help you

I dunno, I did kill 2 Timbies in a trial Hunchie in one match back in Phase 1.

Trial Hunchie OP PGI pls nerf.

[Lugh]

Idealsuspect, on 20 May 2015 - 04:34 AM, said:

IS UAC5 5 slots 9 tonns...
Clan UAC5 3 slots 7 tonns...

You miss all others data except for damage it seem. Yea clan and IS damage are same yea.

No, no they are not. When you hit with an IS UAC you get all 5pts on the point you hit it on, when you burst with a clan UAC you spread that 5 damage out on 2+ areas with ANY movement on your part or the targets part.

Lordhammer, on 29 May 2015 - 07:34 AM, said:

clan mechs are both immensely powerful offensively and defensively compared to IS, they were designed that way in TT. If you get to keep that clan XL engine as it was in TT then weapons have to suffer severely to compensate though i believe they are still too powerful, devs kept the tonnage advantages of weapons, and also kept the damage /range advantage of them too. Also u get free case for ammo's including ARMS! i mean they still are very op compared to IS, even with quirks IS cant compete properly. I think they should have done assymetric warfare just put 6 clans mechs at their full power as in TT against 12 IS. I'd be ok with that. They were horribly outnumbered anyways, thats how they lost the war in the end.

You appear to be doing it wrong. Came back in the founders event. Started playing in the founders event for the first time in 2 years with a founders Hunchback. 3 to 1 KDR on that mech.

The clan mechs I came back to play specifically, not even to 1 - 1 yet (granted none are mastered yet either).

[IraqiWalker]

Lordhammer, on 29 May 2015 - 07:34 AM, said:

clan mechs are both immensely powerful offensively and defensively compared to IS, they were designed that way in TT. If you get to keep that clan XL engine as it was in TT then weapons have to suffer severely to compensate though i believe they are still too powerful, devs kept the tonnage advantages of weapons, and also kept the damage /range advantage of them too. Also u get free case for ammo's including ARMS! i mean they still are very op compared to IS, even with quirks IS cant compete properly. I think they should have done assymetric warfare just put 6 clans mechs at their full power as in TT against 12 IS. I'd be ok with that. They were horribly outnumbered anyways, thats how they lost the war in the end.

PGI tried to do asymmetric warfare, but that was tossed out the window since they couldn't apply it to public queue.

Lugh, on 29 May 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

No, no they are not. When you hit with an IS UAC you get all 5pts on the point you hit it on, when you burst with a clan UAC you spread that 5 damage out on 2+ areas with ANY movement on your part or the targets part.


You appear to be doing it wrong. Came back in the founders event. Started playing in the founders event for the first time in 2 years with a founders Hunchback. 3 to 1 KDR on that mech.

The clan mechs I came back to play specifically, not even to 1 - 1 yet (granted none are mastered yet either).

That also sounds like a "you are doing it wrong" situation. My novas don't have full elites yet, and I burninate a lot of things with them quite easily. I think my fastest kill streak was 4 mechs in one non-stop run in my prime, with 6 ERSLs, and 6 ERMLs. For the record, the 4 kills were all within the span of 60 seconds. Closest to it was my Nova B with 6 ERMLs, and 4MGs. I think that one is just baller. I really enjoy it's 1 2 punch style followed up with MGs.

The prime is more of a boxing mech. I use the right arm (6 ERSLs) for jabs, and my left (6 ERMLs) for the haymakers, and uppercuts. It really works like a boxer, and as long as I don't alpha, I'm fine. It can only handle 2 alphas before exploding.

Also, seriouosly try out the 2 UAC2 KFX, or ADR. It's too much fun sometimes.

[Idealsuspect]

Lugh, on 29 May 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

No, no they are not. When you hit with an IS UAC you get all 5pts on the point you hit it on, when you burst with a clan UAC you spread that 5 damage out on 2+ areas with ANY movement on your part or the targets part.

You mean an lrms 20 didnt deal 20 damage point ?
Or a ERPPC clan didn't 15 damage ? Strange and false.

Clan UAC5 deal 5 damage thats all...

Lugh, on 29 May 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

You appear to be doing it wrong. Came back in the founders event. Started playing in the founders event for the first time in 2 years with a founders Hunchback. 3 to 1 KDR on that mech.

The clan mechs I came back to play specifically, not even to 1 - 1 yet (granted none are mastered yet either).

False again...
KDR depend about the pilots and how he use his build more than the mech name itself ....

Edited by Idealsuspect, 29 May 2015 - 12:04 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Idealsuspect, on 29 May 2015 - 12:02 PM, said:

You mean an lrms 20 didnt deal 20 damage point ?
Or a ERPPC clan didn't 15 damage ? Strange and false.

Clan UAC5 deal 5 damage thats all...

Ideal, I have to say that you got this one a bit wrong.

While the clan UAC5 deals 5 damage, it's not PP FLD (With one bullet, all in one location) damage. While the IS one does PP FLD.

It's part of a balance mechanism. Clan ballistics are lighter, and smaller, as you pointed out. So they balanced that out by making them burst fire.

[Tesunie]

Idealsuspect, on 29 May 2015 - 12:02 PM, said:

False again...
KDR depend about the pilots and how he use his build more than the mech name itself ....

KDR is also a very pointless state. I've had many a times where I soloed an enemy down to red internals, just for someone else to come along, tap them, and take the kill. (I've also done this myself to many people, just tapped an enemy, and they crumpled.)

Damage per match can be a bit better of a data set, and damage per ton per match. However, even this data is not a clear indicator of much, as you can deal a lot of damage to a single mech, and not kill it (by spreading your damage all over the place). Or, you can deal very little damage, in the right spots, and decimate mech after mech after mech.

Edited by Tesunie, 29 May 2015 - 01:17 PM.

[Tesunie]

IraqiWalker, on 29 May 2015 - 12:21 PM, said:

Ideal, I have to say that you got this one a bit wrong.

While the clan UAC5 deals 5 damage, it's not PP FLD (With one bullet, all in one location) damage. While the IS one does PP FLD.

It's part of a balance mechanism. Clan ballistics are lighter, and smaller, as you pointed out. So they balanced that out by making them burst fire.

The balance with clan ACs also means they require more skill to use effectively. I do wonder though, if they got rid of the jam chance (considering how often they are used), would that help balance out CUACs again? I know the burst fire tends to have hiccups with the ultra rapid fire. Not to mention, they also don't like to behave right with chain fire either... (Basically, CUAc fire mechanics still need some work to start with, excluding jam chance changes.)

[IraqiWalker]

Tesunie, on 29 May 2015 - 12:26 PM, said:

The balance with clan ACs also means they require more skill to use effectively. I do wonder though, if they got rid of the jam chance (considering how often they are used), would that help balance out CUACs again? I know the burst fire tends to have hiccups with the ultra rapid fire. Not to mention, they also don't like to behave right with chain fire either... (Basically, CUAc fire mechanics still need some work to start with, excluding jam chance changes.)

I think a jam chance reduction would help. Though to be fair, quite a few clan mechs have a quirk that removes jam chance.