70 replies to this topic

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Vetal, on 29 September 2015 - 10:11 AM, said:

I disagree with that because stock mech play could be easily played among the team mode. You don't have any right to make people play stock. If you fond of it, it does not mean that others like it. In russian community for example, only several teams like stocks(which is bdsm for vast majority of players). If this game lose customizing, 80% of players will turn back to mw4, dispite muchworse graphics.

And who wants this game to lose Custom Mode?
Never heard that, even I would not want that. No one want to force anyone to anything, don`t input your little words like this, you just look ridicule. I will flip a coin and say; why you want to force me and others to play Full Custom? Many, many players feels that way and they left. What majority you speak about? Almost no one played Stock Mode here, and almost all that actually tried that with us, liked it a lot. What BDSM? As I said. If all meks are not super duper min maxed, no mek is bad.
I could say, I feel now BDSM in public as I`m used to tech lvl 3. Exactly same rubbish nonsense. Or players in closed beta, "that was hell of BDSM in lvl tech 1", as I suppose, fallowing your flawed logic.
I still have some strange feeling that you think about playing Stock in Full Custom Mode. Yeah that would be BDSM indeed.
But in that case you lack of basic understandings about what we are talking. Enough was already said that you can catch up.

Stock Mode should find its well deserved place in MWO. As in any previous MechWarrior title.

And Stock Mode is actually quiet well balanced out of the box. Could use just minor polish and that`s it.
You folks that speak about balance in Stock probably never played it.
But please Ratta, tell us about what scrap are you talking about? So we can discuss something real. Of course would be better to just play some, but well.

Edited by Jaeger Gonzo, 05 October 2015 - 09:32 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Rattazustra, on 30 September 2015 - 03:50 PM, said:

This is a bad idea.

First of all, balancing among stock chassis is horrible. Some are walking scrap metal, while others are really good. So to make this work the game would need a much more sophisticated matchmaker. It would also be incredibly frustrating due to waiting times, because it is a mathematical necessity that the number of people in matches will almost equal the number stuck in queue.

If you want stock mech only matches, just get two teams in private lobbies together and use stock mechs. You can already do that without messing up the game for everyone else.

first its a game mode - you are not forced to participate

second - in a quick summary (maybe i missed a fact) those stock (3025era only) builds are balanced and the tonnage limit can be used.

a 65t Mech is equal to all the other 65t Mechs in this era - the JaegerMech has low ammunition and low armor but can dish out some serious damage for a brief period
the Thunderbolt is strong can fight for a while but lacks long range weapons and has problems with heat
the Battlemaster G has more firepower as the 1D but its heat dissipation is worse.

the list is endless non of those stock mechs is clearly superior over another.

Considering an 8 vs 8 (i only played 8 vs 8 stock mode a while back) its all about tactics and timing.

Edited by Karl Streiger, 06 October 2015 - 11:24 PM.

[Fiona Marshe]

Last time I playing in stock matches, I was running the Locust 1V.

Totally different play style to the Level 3 tech in the PUG queue. Scouted, bided time, dove in when a target was cracked open for the MG kill.
As the heavies and assaults aren't customised, there are weaknesses to exploit.

[mechkearney]

Titannium, on 09 June 2015 - 01:21 AM, said:

just no, why fighting with non-optimal BASIC mechs all with same loads?

are you kidding me? Are you sure you play MechWarrior: Online....

SAME MECHS all with SAME LOADS?

Clearly you're not noticing the laser vomit that's been prevalent in this game for many months now...

Basically anyone who wants to be competitive plays the same mechs with the same loadouts.

[jss78]

Personally I'd love this, but I see a couple caveats.

- There's a huge technological disparity between stock mechs. We have tons of Lostech/Succession War era mechs. My feeling is that these are what many people implicitly want to play, when asking for a stock mode. But then we have vastly superior Star League era mechs (e.g., CRB-27B), post-Lostech mechs (BJ-3 and later stuff), and Clan mechs. I think a stock mode would make most sense if it were limited to Succession War era IS mechs -- this'd make it truly distinct, and otherwise there'd just be a narrow meta of really old or really new mechs.

- Stock mechs typically have really small ammo counts, yet I believe in MWO we have increased armour and/or internal structure (I forget which). Could stock dakka mechs get anything done? Might have to modify those armour/structure multipliers.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

jss78, on 07 November 2015 - 02:45 PM, said:

- Stock mechs typically have really small ammo counts, yet I believe in MWO we have increased armour and/or internal structure (I forget which). Could stock dakka mechs get anything done? Might have to modify those armour/structure multipliers.

Stock Mode needs ammo x2 from TT stats to match double armor and double structure.
Just what was done to AC10 already.
And yes, of course would need tech era segregation.

And yeah, most of us want to play 3025 tech lvl 1 Stock Mode, for a start at least.

Edited by Jaeger Gonzo, 11 November 2015 - 02:28 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 11 November 2015 - 02:25 AM, said:

Stock Mode needs ammo x2 from TT stats to match double armor and double structure.
Just what was done to AC10 already.
And yes, of course would need tech era segregation.

And yeah, most of us want to play 3025 tech lvl 1 Stock Mode, for a start at least.

No it does not need 2x ammo you don't spread that much damage
For example if you aim for the CT -you should not hit the legs - and its dependend to the 3D modell if you may hit a arm instead. 1-2tons of ammo should be enough to kill any Mech.
Well the JaegerMech has only 3tons of ammo but that is ok - it will front load this damage while your MAD-3R have serious heat issues.


But you are 100% right about the era separation

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Karl Streiger, on 11 November 2015 - 03:01 AM, said:

No it does not need 2x ammo you don't spread that much damage
For example if you aim for the CT -you should not hit the legs - and its dependend to the 3D modell if you may hit a arm instead. 1-2tons of ammo should be enough to kill any Mech.
Well the JaegerMech has only 3tons of ammo but that is ok - it will front load this damage while your MAD-3R have serious heat issues.


But you are 100% right about the era separation

I talk about 2x TT value per ton. Not 2x tons.
Just at the same level as AC10 ammo is now. In Stock all ammo should be at this level.
And in Stock you going to spread much more then in Full Custom. Simply be cause there is no meks that can do more then 20 points of alpha constantly. And not matter how good your aim is, you going to spread at anything that is not immobile way more in Stock Game.

For best game play Stock needs three things:
1. 2x ammo
2. BT weapon stats
3. quirks off

PPC ghost heat trigger could be lowered to two as well for best game play balance, so Awesome and K2 would be little less dominating, with little less PPFLD.

[Karl Streiger]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 11 November 2015 - 03:50 AM, said:

I talk about 2x TT value per ton. Not 2x tons.
Just at the same level as AC10 ammo is now. In Stock all ammo should be at this level.

when did this insanity happen?

You may spray more damage but on the other hand only view 3025era Mechs have 100% armor

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Karl Streiger, on 11 November 2015 - 04:12 AM, said:

when did this insanity happen?

You may spray more damage but on the other hand only view 3025era Mechs have 100% armor

I'm not sure if we understand each other.
What insanity? Almost all ammo is 1.5x in MWO except SRM that is still 1x and AC10 that is 2x.
They buffed AC10 ammo be cause AC10 was somehow useless as AC5 took its place in most set ups. And that be cause AC5 does not have min range as it should. So in almost all cases is better to take AC5 if possible.

I really don't know about what you are in your second sentence.
All mechs in MWO are 200% armor and 200% internal structure. They did it long time ago to match 3x RoF (that after all this quirks and modules is probably 4x-5x).

So talking about ammo in Stock Mode.
Some mechs in Stock Mode really needs this 2x ammo to match 2x armor and structure. Many Stock designs have just one ton or two and they main weapon is single AC5 for example. That subject is quiet agreed among Stock Community that Stock Mode needs 2x ammo.

[Karl Streiger]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 11 November 2015 - 06:48 AM, said:

All mechs in MWO are 200% armor and 200% internal structure. They did it long time ago to match 3x RoF (that after all this quirks and modules is probably 4x-5x).

no they don't have 2x the armor or the structure
its one of PGIs worst decisions.
Ask you self when you shoot a guy - how much of your shots hit the CT - 17%?
In this case well than they have 2 times the armor - but if you hit the CT more often they don't have 2times the armor.

Or when we talk about stock: here the JaegerMech 2x times the armor of the TT
- tell me does this Jaeger has good use of his leg or arm armor? No it doesn't because you don't aim for the arms or the legs.

Given TT values you need on the average 31 hits for the AC 5 to destroy a JaegerMech
In MWO the JaegerMech count only the CT and STs = 37 hits for the AC5 an only if you destroy both STs and the CT

So in the best case you need 19% more ammo - not even the 50% granted.
If you are running a Jaeger you have 60 Shots for the AC 5 - enough to kill a other Jaeger Mech even if you hit with almost 50% of your shots the surrounding.

And when Stock Comunity think they need 2x ammo i would say they have to show more fire discipline.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Karl open smurfy MWO and then take out any of the BT mechs spread sheets.
Yes mechs in MWO sport 2x armor and structure.
Nothing to discuss here.
We used to play a lot Stock. If your target have a half brain, you going to miss a lot and spread a lot.
Besides, in TT you probably going to destroy mech far before center structure points run off, in TT you got critical hits.
Jeager Mech have 2 tons of ammo, but Wolverine and Shadowhawk have just one ton, LRM mechs like Catapult needs 2x ammo as well. To make Wolvie and Shadows perfectly playable they do need 2x ammo.


You say 19% more.
That's what we want. 2x ammo, mean just 25% rise from current MWO stat.

Edited by Jaeger Gonzo, 11 November 2015 - 09:02 AM.

[Vetal]

Pls, people who voted 'yes' tell me, which mechs you supposed to use in this mode. All 300+? And you are sure that stock IS pilots want to fight against stock clanners? I am SURE that all who have voted for this are clanners. There are a huge disbalance between is and clan stocks. If you want play stock - play it in private lobby. There are no any neccesity to make this mode only for 500+ people, especially for random queue.

Edited by Vetal, 11 November 2015 - 09:25 AM.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Vetal, on 11 November 2015 - 09:23 AM, said:

Pls, people who voted 'yes' tell me, which mechs you supposed to use in this mode. All 300+? And you are sure that stock IS pilots want to fight against stock clanners? I am SURE that all who have voted for this are clanners. There are a huge disbalance between is and clan stocks. If you want play stock - play it in private lobby. There are no any neccesity to make this mode only for 500+ people, especially for random queue.

Stock 3025 mech in 3025 Stock Mode would never encounter any clan (redacted)
We can`t play in privet lobby as well as we used too.
Read thread before you post some nonsense.

Edited by Catalina Steiner, 29 November 2015 - 02:05 PM.

[Karl Streiger]

Hi Vetal - i know my figures - i have written a small program to calculate the Threadvalue for a weapon because i thought that the bv2 calculation is not enough - so in a average battle you need 69shots of a AC5 to kill a Jaegermech!
Was surprised that the average miss of a TT game is almost equal to MWO - but its also a question of trigger discipline -i know that with the almost unlimited ammo feeling of mwo my trigger discipline is bad.

Anyhow its the part of stock battles to not kill in a instant - you have to try to make every shot count - when in a SHD fighting a Wolverine - maybe both pilotes know that their ammunition would not be enough to kill the other one - so the Shd try to shield its arm.
So for more interesting fights i would say back to Tt values for stock ammo.

One of the mechs with the Luxus to take shots of oportunity is the 1N Dragon - 2x ammo would be almost endless (from Closed Beta I run that thing in standard battles and it was enough to kill other Mechs and cripple others but in the end it was always lasers only)

Don't make the Stock mode that is supposed to be challenging in another mindless twich shooter where the guy with more ballistics win

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Game would be unplayable if you restore just ammo to TT and leave armor, structure and RoF as is.
The only picked mechs would be energy based and that's not what we want.
Stock Mode as proposed would be really challenging enough. Ammo reserving, heat reserving and tactic wise.

[Karl Streiger]

I just wanted to disagree when i did remember that with Black Knight, Hopper and Crab there are some powerfull energy mechs in game now.
Not to mention that the 1.2 heat stuff has to rolled back for stock mech button - result would be a complete parallel game mode

But as long as you run dry almost every battle ammunition is done well - important is that every shot that does not connect have to hurt may it be energy or not

[refrigeraptor]

Sadly we'll never see this mode.

I am interested in playing stock custom to, anyone knows a comp that does that often?

Edited by CptMcMuffin, 21 November 2015 - 01:02 PM.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

We used to have event every Monday.
But quirks destroyed balance in Stock mode. So probably not until something will be done with quirks.
And we wait for Privet Lobby Stock Button of course.

[refrigeraptor]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 23 November 2015 - 02:23 AM, said:

We used to have event every Monday.
But quirks destroyed balance in Stock mode. So probably not until something will be done with quirks.
And we wait for Privet Lobby Stock Button of course.

I'll always be late to parties